Subaru Outback Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Looking to upgrade my stoke headlight on my 09 OB to some HID's. Any recommendations or suggestions? Considered LED's but read reviews stating LED's don't do as well as HID's in projection headlight.
Also looking to do yellow bulbs for the fog lights. Any recommendations foe those as well?
Trying to stay away from anything that my damage and of the stock housings or lenses on the fog/headlights.
 

·
Registered
05 OBXT & 16 Crosstrek
Joined
·
696 Posts
Head on over to TRS and get a Morimoto setup. Their Retroquick kit includes everything you need including HID specific bi-xenon projectors, mounting brackets, wiring, bulbs, and ballasts.

Do everyone else on the road a favor and do not throw a "kit" in your stock projectors. Not only will you blind oncoming traffic, but you will wind up with hot spots creating the illusion of seeing better. Not to mention it is also illegal.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2007 JDM Outback H6
Joined
·
8 Posts
I agree
Don't be afraid of cracking open your headlights and doing the job properly, it's really not hard...the annoying part was actually removing the headlights from the car

I retrofitted my other car with bi-xenon projectors and love the result

My JDM gen 3 Outback has factory low-beam HID...I plan to convert them to bi-xenon projectors at some point this year but I've already done a projector clear lens conversion and Osram CBI HID bulbs...what a difference clear lenses make

I now get all my auto lighting kit from theretrofitsource
 

·
Registered
2008 OB Limited 2.5i, Portland OR USA
Joined
·
6,105 Posts
Trying to stay away from anything that my damage and of the stock housings or lenses on the fog/headlights.
Genuine Subaru used headlamps are commonly available for Gen 3 at a not-too-unreasonable price. And it's not that bad a job swapping out the entire headlamp assembly.

I'm not sure of the foglamps; I've never been into mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
We have a 2009 Subaru Outback Vehicle Lighting Guide that can help get you started if you're looking for options, but there's lots of good advice in this thread already. A housing/projector designed for use with HIDs will always give better results than a conversion from halogen, but a good conversion kit can still give you pretty good results and is less work overall.
@soloz2 raises a good point, though. You may find that regulations (or at least enforcement of them) varies depending on how where you live, but generally speaking only the lighting systems a vehicle was manufactured with are considered to be street-legal.

~Robert
 

·
Registered
Lawn ornament XT
Joined
·
14,366 Posts
I put some yellow dyed halogen bulbs in the fog housings about 7 years ago and haven't touched them since. Nokya, perhaps? It was $20 for a pair and they've done everything I wanted. Very noticeable color, and the intensity, alignment & spread is exactly the same as stock. Nothing to it, great mod.
 

·
Brucey
'17 3.6
Joined
·
11,280 Posts
I thought the Gen 3 had projector headlights and thus, could be used with HID's?

This is what we did with a friends Gen 3 Outback. Plug and play kit.

There is a perfect line where the light hits and he's never had his high beams flashed at him.
 

·
Registered
Lawn ornament XT
Joined
·
14,366 Posts
I thought the Gen 3 had projector headlights and thus, could be used with HID's?
The very best you can get means you disassemble the gen 3 headlight bucket, remove the halogen-specific projectors, install the HID-specific projector cans in their place, reassemble the buckets and install aftermarket HID lamps re-based for halogen mounts.

Once you've done that, there are only two factors preventing it from being street legal: lack of automatic leveling, and the fact that it wasn't factory installed. It's hard to get past the first one and impossible to pass the second, but it's something.

You can still get a useful result without the projector swap, but it's one degree further away from the right way.

This is important to me personally because I respect the fundamental difference between halogen vehicle lights and HID vehicle lights:

Halogens are not too bright to look at, so it's okay if you spill some light in the wrong direction.

HIDs are too bright to EVER look at. If you are going to shine them out into the night, you want control over every factor influencing where that beam goes. If you give up on automatic leveling AND reflector type, what else is separating you from a rolling blindness generator on the highway?
 

·
Brucey
'17 3.6
Joined
·
11,280 Posts
The very best you can get means you disassemble the gen 3 headlight bucket, remove the halogen-specific projectors, install the HID-specific projector cans in their place, reassemble the buckets and install aftermarket HID lamps re-based for halogen mounts.

Once you've done that, there are only two factors preventing it from being street legal: lack of automatic leveling, and the fact that it wasn't factory installed. It's hard to get past the first one and impossible to pass the second, but it's something.

You can still get a useful result without the projector swap, but it's one degree further away from the right way.

This is important to me personally because I respect the fundamental difference between halogen vehicle lights and HID vehicle lights:

Halogens are not too bright to look at, so it's okay if you spill some light in the wrong direction.

HIDs are too bright to EVER look at. If you are going to shine them out into the night, you want control over every factor influencing where that beam goes. If you give up on automatic leveling AND reflector type, what else is separating you from a rolling blindness generator on the highway?
Can you show me some differences between Halogen projectors and HID projectors? I'm curious what the difference is.

The HID kit we used in that Gen 3 works well. There is a crisp line where the low beam ends and the drivers side is even a hair lower than the passenger. There isn't any splash and it's not distracting other drivers. I know this because he's followed me for miles at night before. It's a noticeable improvement in light output and the only downside (other than the <100$ cost) is there is occasionally a warm up time of a few seconds.

If you're saying the projector still needs changed to be safe, I'm going to need to show him some differences to convince him to do so.
 

·
Registered
Lawn ornament XT
Joined
·
14,366 Posts
Can you show me some differences between Halogen projectors and HID projectors? I'm curious what the difference is.

The HID kit we used in that Gen 3 works well. There is a crisp line where the low beam ends and the drivers side is even a hair lower than the passenger. There isn't any splash and it's not distracting other drivers. I know this because he's followed me for miles at night before. It's a noticeable improvement in light output and the only downside (other than the <100$ cost) is there is occasionally a warm up time of a few seconds.

If you're saying the projector still needs changed to be safe, I'm going to need to show him some differences to convince him to do so.
I can't tell you that what you guys came up with isn't safe, for exactly the same reasons you can't tell me it is.

Neither of us have any good instrumentation to properly test the thing for spill or hotspots. Not getting flashed is a positive sign, but by now many drivers are fatigued and just put up with it. I can't say that the projector can MUST be replaced to be safe. However, I can say that your buddy needs to take responsibility for wherever his headlights spill light. His old headlights were bright enough to be useful, yet dim enough that even when aimed incorrectly would not cause anything beyond momentary harm to other drivers. HIDs are on the other side of that line, so to be used safely beam control is much more important.

The core issue is the spatial relationship between the light source and the optics of the projector. The light source in halogen lamps is the filament, and all headlamp designs have very tight published measurements for exactly where the filament will be relative to the center of the mount base.

The same is true for HID lamps. It's not necessarily the same location, but there is a table somewhere that says where it will be relative to some index on the mounting plane.

The curveball is HID lamps which have been re-based on halogen mounts. Each one could potentially have the burner arc in a different location. Quality has been improving, so you can generally trust to be one like the next... but can't be exactly the same geometry as any of the defined standard bulb types because a re-based HID technically doesn't exist. There is no published standard. There's no guarantee that the next batch will be positioned the same way as this one, to say nothing of a different brand.

If you put the burner arc where the halogen filament should be and run it through a halogen projector assembly, you'll get a pretty decent pattern. There may be some errors, and they may be within limits. The fundamental difference is that for the first time, you have the chance of making an error that is actually bright enough to be a real problem. It can also "just work" with no cause for concern, but it's really hard to prove.

HID projectors have their optics optimized for where an HID arc should form. But there is potential for error here too, because the conversion lamps aren't true standard HID lamps- they've been modified. This means that even when switching projector cans the beam may not be perfect.

It would be awesome if you had a way of knowing that it was really right before getting to the point of saying "Well, nobody flashed us." You're kind of committed by then.

Lastly, I used the word "personally" in my previous post for a reason- I'm not flatly anti-HID. I'm not comfortable doing this mod on my own car, and I'm happy to share what I've learned that has led me to think this way in the hopes that others mod responsibly.

tl;dr:

When you're dueling with cap guns, aim & scatter isn't a big deal. Once you're using some real firepower that changes real fast.
 

·
Registered
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i
Joined
·
17 Posts
I can't tell you that what you guys came up with isn't safe, for exactly the same reasons you can't tell me it is..........



When you're dueling with cap guns, aim & scatter isn't a big deal. Once you're using some real firepower that changes real fast.
Hi there! I'm the guy he's talking about with the Gen 3 that installed the HIDs.

If I understand your point, my vehicle NOT getting highbeam'd in retaliation by other drivers is NOT proof that I'm not blinding them? I mean, folks on the road can be mean over missing a turn signal, so when I'm driving along with the lows on and NO ONE is hitting me back, this isn't enough evidence that its not a problem?

I'll be the first person to admit we didn't get out a scatter spectrometer to measure beam width, but unless the concern is blinding pedestrians on the sidewalk I'm not really sure how I can be a hazard to other drivers. The argument of "you can't prove that you're not" isn't exactly convincing either.
 

·
Registered
Lawn ornament XT
Joined
·
14,366 Posts
Hi there! I'm the guy he's talking about with the Gen 3 that installed the HIDs.

If I understand your point, my vehicle NOT getting highbeam'd in retaliation by other drivers is NOT proof that I'm not blinding them? I mean, folks on the road can be mean over missing a turn signal, so when I'm driving along with the lows on and NO ONE is hitting me back, this isn't enough evidence that its not a problem?

I'll be the first person to admit we didn't get out a scatter spectrometer to measure beam width, but unless the concern is blinding pedestrians on the sidewalk I'm not really sure how I can be a hazard to other drivers. The argument of "you can't prove that you're not" isn't exactly convincing either.
Okay let's ease back a notch...

Let me make it clear that I'm willing to accept your claim that your headlights are not perceived as a problem. I sure don't know either way, but with both you and Brucey saying it's cool I'm happy to understand that it is. You know your car and your local traffic better than I could, and I've got no reason to doubt you here.

But I think you'll understand that this isn't true for everyone else who can figure out paypal and a screwdriver, and let's face it- HID retrofit kits aren't that hard to slap in.

The big point of my previous post is that we should recognize that the use of HIDs crosses a line in terms of their power to dazzle when they aren't working correctly. Factory systems already have the ability to shut down individual headlights if they detect a problem in the aiming system. I don't expect your car to have that, but I do expect you to respect the power of what you've got and make decisions accordingly.

Also, if someone is getting blinded and they aren't responding, well.... that's on them, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Thank you all for ypur feedback. @rasterman I'm going to look up those yellow dye fog lights. Hopefully I can find them. Do you recall the actual mame of them and where you got them from?
 

·
Registered
'17 3.6R Touring Brillant Brown Pearl
Joined
·
2,424 Posts
So, I ran with a 35 Watt HID in one light, and an Osram Night Breaker in the other for a couple of nights. There is absolutely no perceivable difference in the cut off, or light scatter.

I've had the opt 7 kit installed for two years now, with new headlight housings. No problems, and no oncoming flashes. Prolly the best lighting I've ever had in a car.

Boltzen AC CANBUS Series: 35w HID Kit - OPT7
 

·
Registered
Lawn ornament XT
Joined
·
14,366 Posts
Thank you all for ypur feedback. @rasterman I'm going to look up those yellow dye fog lights. Hopefully I can find them. Do you recall the actual mame of them and where you got them from?
Hey! So as occasionally happens... I was wrong. Desperately, hopelessly wrong.

Since you asked, I rememebered that I had saved the original clear bulbs in the package for the old ones and they would be somewhere out in the garage. Mind you, not the same garage as when I bought the car; I've moved since then.

But somehow, the universe aligned and I found this thing in under a minute. I remembered the name 'Nokya' because the store I was in sold a whole lot of those.

...but that's not what I bought.

Putco 239006JY, which is a strong "jet yellow" dyed halogen 9006 bulb perfectly fit for use in 3rd generation Outbacks. I got them from a local independent tire & accessory place, but that brand is available everywhere.
 

·
Registered
2005 Outback XT 5EAT
Joined
·
39 Posts
@rasterman are they truly yellow?

Because I have the Optilux H71070602 by HELLA in my fogs and they are definitely NOT yellow, they are amber, like my front turn signals...


I planned on just swapping them back out for some clear bulbs and adding the yellow film instead.
 

·
Registered
Lawn ornament XT
Joined
·
14,366 Posts
@rasterman are they truly yellow?

Because I have the Optilux H71070602 by HELLA in my fogs and they are definitely NOT yellow, they are amber, like my front turn signals...


I planned on just swapping them back out for some clear bulbs and adding the yellow film instead.
The beam is a very distinct yellow. You'd never mistake it for a turn signal.

When the lamps are extinguished, I only see a hint of color in the lens.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top