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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I seafoamed my newly acquired 1996 Outback 2.5L, through the brake booster line.

I had severe misfire, but no CEL.

I then saw where you need to use the pcv intake instead, so i did.

No change, sever misfire on acceleration, loss of power but still no CEL.

No knocks, no smoking exhaust (besides when it misfires, then i get smoke from exhaust), idles smooth....

What are the chances its just plugs???

I am gonna be in soooo much trouble if it isnt plugs, I sold the wifes Durango to get a ride with better fuel economy, and now I did this....

Out here in the sticks nobody carries good plugs for the Subaru's so I had to order some, they should be here mid next week. (was already planning a tune up)

So what are the chances?

Is there anything else I could look at which would cause this? (short of tearing down the motor or a compression/leak down test)
 

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01 VDC, 05 R Sedan, 06 BAJA EJ257
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You fed the Sea Foam in too heavy causing a flood out condition.

When you feed the Sea Foam in, slow feed is better and raise the engine rpm to 12-1500 until its done.

Just drive it around. It will clear out and stop misfiring.
 

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(formerly) 03 H6 OBW , (presently) 06 WRX Sportwagon & 2021 Honda CR-V
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when you first turn the key to ON, does the CEL actually work?

also, there can be pending codes so, might be worth scanning anyway.

do you know how old the plugs and plu wires are?

any more info on the car and the exact problem you have with it will be helpful.

probably beyond me, but others will reply I'm sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You fed the Sea Foam in too heavy causing a flood out condition.

When you feed the Sea Foam in, slow feed is better and raise the engine rpm to 12-1500 until its done.

Just drive it around. It will clear out and stop misfiring.
I drove it a couple miles and it didnt clear up, let it idle for a while too, then just went for a 1 mile or so drive...the only change was when engine was cold there was very little misfire but as temp warmed up (which was quicker than usual but could just be because it was driven previously) it worsened.

when you first turn the key to ON, does the CEL actually work?

also, there can be pending codes so, might be worth scanning anyway.

do you know how old the plugs and plu wires are?

any more info on the car and the exact problem you have with it will be helpful.

probably beyond me, but others will reply I'm sure.
I checked and i have several lights not working on my dash it seems..

Air Bag
Oil
CEL
AT Temp

I am hoping its just bulbs and not the stupid controller i have been reading about.

I had no real problem besides very minor piston slap on cold start, thogugh I did notice a smoking exhaust but attributed it to it being winter, I smelled no burnt oil, fuel or antifreeze smell from exhaust, but figured a cleaning of the intake and such couldnt hurt. I had read that carbon build up could be the cause of piston slap and it is/was so minor I didnt think it was an actual mechanical problem.

And it does seem the slap is gone or diminished by at least 50% which with the door closed and window up would make it inaudible.

So now my issue is sever misfire under load, but smooth at idle.

As for plugs and wires, I cant say since at this point i see no reason to trust the person i bought it from after seeing antifreeze on the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok I went and got the codes scanned....

Came up with 3 codes....

P0325 Knock Sensor 1 Circuit Malfunction (Bank I or Single Sensor)
P0500 Vehicle Speed Sensor Malfunction
P1101 Neutral Position Switch Circuit High Input (A/T)
 

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Ooh, ooh.

Grounds. Loose grounds. Dirty grounds. Check your grounds. Cable at the battery, block, firewall, fenders and intake. Check them all.

Let us know if you find any with corrosion, loose connection or loose wire. Corrosion in the wire under the insulation will cause resistance also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ooh, ooh.

Grounds. Loose grounds. Dirty grounds. Check your grounds. Cable at the battery, block, firewall, fenders and intake. Check them all.

Let us know if you find any with corrosion, loose connection or loose wire. Corrosion in the wire under the insulation will cause resistance also.
Well after the code read I unbolted the knock sensor at the auto parts store to clean under it to see if it was corrosion. It was cracked in half and had rust under the plastic outer housing so i ordered a new one. The vehicle speed sensor is a different story, my driveway is full of snow and ice so getting under there at this time isnt safe, I ordered a new sensor and will have to take it to the local shop. I think the N/safety issue could be ground related, I have not researched it yet.
 

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1993 Legacy LSi with still functioning Air Suspension, 1999 Outback 2.5L 5MT lab Rat
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Have you fixed the lights on the dash issue? Since the CEL, AT temp, and Airbag lamps do not work I'm thinking that whoever sold you the vehicle knew there were issues and wanted to ensure no Lights would be on prior to sale (or after for that matter) I would also be concerned with the Oil Lamp its kind of important too. If your going to replace the plugs anyway I would do a compression check at the same time(write it down). Even if nothing is wrong there, it will give you a good baseline point for future reference. I keep a binder for each car I have with all the work I do, plus service information for anything I have modified, so its sort of a custom service and maintenace manual.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Have you fixed the lights on the dash issue? Since the CEL, AT temp, and Airbag lamps do not work I'm thinking that whoever sold you the vehicle knew there were issues and wanted to ensure no Lights would be on prior to sale (or after for that matter) I would also be concerned with the Oil Lamp its kind of important too. If your going to replace the plugs anyway I would do a compression check at the same time(write it down). Even if nothing is wrong there, it will give you a good baseline point for future reference. I keep a binder for each car I have with all the work I do, plus service information for anything I have modified, so its sort of a custom service and maintenace manual.
I have not been able to get to the light issue yet, I have been working on figuring out the driveability issue. I am thinking the same thing about the seller, if there are no bulbs in the sockets in the dash I will know for a fact that the seller was a crook, if they just burned out then its just my dumb luck. I need to find out what bulbs they are and if they are available locally, rather not have to tear into it just to put it back together and wait for delivery if they arent available local.
 

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STJ, Binder? Have you thought about transferring the data to a computer base using last names or plate/VIN numbers for a lookup?

only126db, Good thinking. Get it running right, bulbs later. On the bulbs, they are the mini BP series you can pick up at a parts store. 74 and 158 are most used.
 

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did you change the knock sensor?? if it is not working, it will run like a slug. friend of mine had a bad one for while before i change it for him. told me how much more peppier and smother it was after the change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
did you change the knock sensor?? if it is not working, it will run like a slug. friend of mine had a bad one for while before i change it for him. told me how much more peppier and smother it was after the change.
Had to order it, should be in tomorrow some time.





Now I believe I have found another issue which is perplexing.

When the vehicle is not started but in the on position the fan relay kicks the fans on and of. I read about the Test Mode aConnectors under the dash, I bet thats why they couldnt get any codes unless the vehicle was running. I believe the fans kicking on and off means the green connectors are connected. I wonder if they are and I disconnect them if this will have any effect on my CEL or if I will get other codes that were stored in memory.

I honestly dont know for sure if my vehicle even has them though, I just learned of them a few minutes ago.

Anybody know anything about these connectors?
 

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1993 Legacy LSi with still functioning Air Suspension, 1999 Outback 2.5L 5MT lab Rat
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Yes Doc use computer daily and have backups online for everything I do. The binder stays with the car in case I am unable to get wi-fi and have an issue in a Verizon dead zone. On the the D-Check (green) connector, which is a dealer check feature, and the mode in which the car is transported to the dealer, and is disconnected during the delivery inspection. If it is plugged in the CEL should be flashing steady on/off. If you do not have the CEL it is likely burned out/missing, and where I tend to agree on waiting to replace bulbs they are an important part of warning you for instance Doc if the OIL PRESSURE IS TOO LOW. I never assume that 4 would be burned out, since in 25 years of fixing cars from Alfa Romeos to Yugos I have NEVER Seen 4 warning indicators burned out in the same cluster.
 

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One, its a 96. Test connectors are black. If they were connected he also would have heard relays clicking under the dash.

Two, on this car the fans will cycle on/off with the key on not running. Later models the fans come on and stay on.

Three, don't assume that 4 bulbs aren't out. Just because you haven't run in to it doesn't mean it's not possible. Electrical surges can do funny things and so can age. How many times has someone had both headlights blow at the same time? Never assume, check it first.

Four, try an SD or Memory stick. Less paper and makes finding files a breeze and they don't have fading ink or smudges.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
One, its a 96. Test connectors are black. If they were connected he also would have heard relays clicking under the dash.

Two, on this car the fans will cycle on/off with the key on not running. Later models the fans come on and stay on.

Three, don't assume that 4 bulbs aren't out. Just because you haven't run in to it doesn't mean it's not possible. Electrical surges can do funny things and so can age. How many times has someone had both headlights blow at the same time? Never assume, check it first.

Four, try an SD or Memory stick. Less paper and makes finding files a breeze and they don't have fading ink or smudges.
well the fan issue thing makes me wonder because the relay is all that clicks on and off when the key is on, the fans dont actually spin(they will spin if engine is running). The relay will click open, closed,open,closed on and on, with only a 1 second or so pause between the clicks.

the relay is loud as heck, but i dont think there are more than one, i am not sure, i have only put the key to the on position without starting it a couple times, so i am not 100% sure but if so they seem to be perfectly timed to each other.

its only 15 out right now, i may go out in a little to pull the cluster and check bulbs, may even get my but up undervthe dash and look for connectors...
 

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(formerly) 03 H6 OBW , (presently) 06 WRX Sportwagon & 2021 Honda CR-V
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certainly smacks of fraud.

proving it would be tricky but, I suppose you could speak to a lawyer and see if there is recourse. Some States may be better with stuff like this than others.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
certainly smacks of fraud.

proving it would be tricky but, I suppose you could speak to a lawyer and see if there is recourse. Some States may be better with stuff like this than others.
Serious fraud!!!

I have shined a flashlight through every hole in this cluster and there are no sporlts where check engine, oil or airbag light up!!!

The area where the three are supposed to be has holes for two bulbs, and an actual connector which seems to supply power tto an internal bulb or something.

The insiide area of the two bulb receptacles looks clean and white like the rest of the cluster, but if you look close the black of the cluster looks different on the inside than the rest of the cluster. Looking at the dash as you would normally there is no evidence of tampering, so someone had to do this on purpose 100%.

i talked to the guy i bought it from an he said he had some issues with stumbling but put new plugs in and it fixed it.

i think he is a lying p.o.s. and got lucky the car didnt show any signs of trouble when we test drove it or drove it this past week.

it will be nearly impossible to prove he did it, he is not the first owner, only way would be to do a vin check and they are not reliable.

i am pissed beyond pissed.
 

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Calm down, no reason to get sue-happy here. Does it suck? Yes. The bulb for the "Service Engine Soon" light on my GTP was removed when I got it. I was pissed, but there is no point in recourse. Replace the bulbs and go from there. Pull the engine codes, diagnose and repair the problem.
 
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