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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
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16,174 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
Tmi !!!

Ok,

Maybe...I might be getting in over my head.

PlainOM. I have seen some of your many posts, You along with seabass, rasterman, cardoc, many others....:29:

I am not worthy...:confused::gasp::(:eek:...I am a wrench...with your hands kind of guy.
Meaning...Installer...tell me which part has to come out, follow proceedure and..done. EASY

My bike, dirt bike, truck and Jeep experience..though...extensive is nothing like this stuff. Computer/ECU wise...

I can't even seem to get a hold of the Romraider software. I have had to turn off my Norton to let it in to my laptop and I am still having issues trying to get the definition and logger downloads as well. I am going to keep working at it. Just got hit with a huge snowstorm in Denver...so I won't be doing much for a bit.

After all...subi has to ski sometimes.
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
Joined
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16,174 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Boxer Rumble

Ok So here is an update on my in-gear vibration issue....It's solved...well, sort of.

Over the last couple of weeks, I have been conducting tests with the Free SSM scanning program. During my somewhat "blind testing". I wasn't really able to find any issues. That said. It is true that from a diagostic standpoint...not having any idea what the readings really mean ( I do not have a FSM..silly)...I was able to determine this:

At normal operating temp, there were almost no variations in any of my test readings when taken in (N-P-D-or-R). HMMM...Points to nothing being wrong.

At least not that I could tell, other than a 150 RPM drop when loaded by the AT. Still in the neighborhood of 630-640 though. My lowest, normal temp, in-gear idle was 582. That was on an engine stumble when I turned on my rear defroster. This is normal for the car as there small voltage drop, then RPM drop as ALT kicks up.

So next, I have decided it can only be either motor or trans mounts at this point. Visually they look great. Not much movement in trans mount. It is hard to get the motor to rock when not running...don't want to break anything. The motor does rock back and forth a good bit when running.

Anyway, decided to have the Mike Shaw Subaru Dealer verify. I wanted them to road test the car as well. They charged me $38 to balance and rotate two wheels they claimed were out of balance AND tell me my mounts are fine.

Since, the unwanted balancing...things are now out of balance. My previously smooth highway rig now shakes at 65mph. GREAT. At least my mileage figures might increase. (I have a right foot/boost problem I been trying to quit)

I'm P****D-Off now.

In my internet fury, I make one last/final effort find someone to take my $$$ and tell me there are many things wrong with my SUBI which will cost me much more $$$.

So, I head to the foothills, to the only city on the planet where there are more Subaru's than people, to Super Rupair in Boulder. I spend a very long time explaining to the service advisor all of the history and everything. I explain very clearly what they are to find wrong with my car. Surely they could find the problem. Surely this would be big.

So, I get a loaner car from them. A 2004 Outback 2.5 4AT. As I stop at the exit to the lot, I step on the brake, I come to a stop...AND...AAAHHHH!

SAME EXACT VIBE....It's that dear BOXER VIBE....Nothing More

NO Sh*t.

I have had 6 Subaru's in my life, all Turbo's. 1 Gen 1 and several from '86-'92. I have never owned an AT before....totally different VIBE with 2 pedals vs 3.

So. It cost me $104 for complete scan, multiple test drives and a severe mount bashing. I finally have to face the fact that I have a GREAT CAR. If one more Subi professional has to tell me "D**m that's a nice car, drives great..relax and drive it". Then shame on me twice.

Re-calibrating the idle, raising it closer to 750rpm when in gear, does improve the situation. However at the moment, I'd rather prep her rear end for the new King Springs and upgraded KYB's all the way around....MMMMM GOOD!

What this new/used project, my 2006 XT has taught me thus far is...if you want it bad enough..you can be satisfied. Don't give up.

However a $20 spot for a cable...and then the help of some great contributions/advice from you-all, can be all you ever need. Thanks All (Cardoc, Rasterman, Seabass, others)


FINALLY, What did I learn most of all.

If "Love is what makes a Subaru a Subaru" Then you D**N WELL better able to feel that BIG, FLAT, HEART BEAT!!!

Cheers and Rumble On.:29:

CK
 

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Registered
05 OBXT 5eat stg1.2
Joined
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2,104 Posts
Ok,

Maybe...I might be getting in over my head.

PlainOM. I have seen some of your many posts, You along with seabass, rasterman, cardoc, many others....:29:

I am not worthy...:confused::gasp::(:eek:...I am a wrench...with your hands kind of guy.
Meaning...Installer...tell me which part has to come out, follow proceedure and..done. EASY

My bike, dirt bike, truck and Jeep experience..though...extensive is nothing like this stuff. Computer/ECU wise...

I can't even seem to get a hold of the Romraider software. I have had to turn off my Norton to let it in to my laptop and I am still having issues trying to get the definition and logger downloads as well. I am going to keep working at it. Just got hit with a huge snowstorm in Denver...so I won't be doing much for a bit.

After all...subi has to ski sometimes.
Also look for learningview. It'll give you a pretty good snapshot of how things are working. Fuel trims and learned knock can tell you a lot about what's going on.
 

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Registered
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106 Posts
Re-calibrating the idle, raising it closer to 750rpm when in gear, does improve the situation.
Cheers and Rumble On.:29:

CK
What is your idle in neutral? Your idle should kick back up to real close to the level it is in neutral shortly after you put it in gear I believe. I would guess 700-750 in neutral 650-700 in gear, 150 drop seems a little much, but I could be wrong.
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
Joined
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16,174 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
XT Likes Altitude

What is your idle in neutral? Your idle should kick back up to real close to the level it is in neutral shortly after you put it in gear I believe. I would guess 700-750 in neutral 650-700 in gear, 150 drop seems a little much, but I could be wrong.
780 in (N)-630 in (D)
There is more see below

Also look for learningview. It'll give you a pretty good snapshot of how things are working. Fuel trims and learned knock can tell you a lot about what's going on.
Turns out, this thread is not dead.


I took the car skiing this weekend Denver to A-Basin/Loveland Pass

ZERO vibration when stopped in gear vs (N). Acts lick a normal car. I stopped for a coffee in Idaho Springs and was shocked. Idle seems about the same drop, just no engine rocking. I only had the gauge for ref.

Altitude? What gives. 8,000 ft and above.


Also now that the weather is warming up,
at 70+ deg outside in Denver, the rocking (at 5,000 ft) is worse. Accourding to my Butt. Adding a touch of throttle will still quell the rocking.


Looks like I need to do some more investigating with my laptop both @ mile high AND higher.


My King Springs & KYB's tomorrow, A mountain run on Wednesday will be t may be my last chance for a bit before I tear the old legs out of her.

Any more testing block insights on what I should be looking for?
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
Joined
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16,174 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
Sovled...I think

All right All,

I have to say...my in-gear idle drop/vibration issue, is SOLVED. The solution MWE axles. I am very lucky from a geographical standpoint. I am about 4 miles from MWE axles.

All I can say is Mitchell is the real deal, and a true believer. MWE used to have a contact with Subi for re-mans. MWE no longer re-builds axles for Subaru. This has been within the last year or two. I don't know for sure when this happened exactly. My Subi re-mans were not re-built by MWE.

Mitchell took the time to check out my axles...by hand...very cool, 14 yrs experience. He was very honest. He told me that mty axles really pretty much felt ok...from a revolution standpoint...loose rolling...but possibly too much play in the tri-pod(in-board) joint. Also, he stated that on the Gen-3, Subi changed to the tri-pod(in-board) and 8-ball CV vs. 2 6 ball CV's. The Axles Mitchell built for me have a tri-pod(re-built) joint and a 6 ball(new) joint at the wheel. The old Subi re-mans (while in the car) would exhibit lateral and vertical "slop/play" at the tri-pod joint. The MWE's exhibit none of this/tight in that regard...but loose as far as revolving.

My Butt-Vibration(wheel too) is all but COMPLETELY eliminated. OK, you can still tell a difference when the car is put in (D) vs (N). However, I no longer have to endure the scene from "Jurassic Park" with the water glass. Previously, the car would spill your coffee. Now..it is quite smooth. I no longer NEED shift into (N) at a stop.

I encourage EVERYONE with an AT tranny to use MWE if you need CV axles. Anyone with an MT, the issue is probably not as much as an issue. However...Please see another of my threads. "NVH and vibration at speed"
The MWE axles may have solved these problems as well...Anyone with an MT would possibly experience these issue.

So. So. HAPPY

My idle is still low...but it doesn't cause the car to shake anymore. I certainly do not have
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
Joined
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16,174 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Update here, sorry to say...I still have this vibration happening. MWE, or the Subi remans for that matter, have nothing to do with it. I'm convinced of that. It I definitely something engine mgt or rpm issue. It has actually bed pretty good over the summer, running with the a/c on must have raised the rpms(maybe?) a bit. But now that it is cold and no a/c running. It's back in force, and again, if the rear defroster is pushed...shudder/shake gets worse. I can feel a light tapping in the steering wheel also. Once the car I warmed to normal temp, I can feather the throttle a TINY bit and all vibration/tapping will stop. Nothing works as the car is warming to normal.

I am finally going to get off my **s and do some logging with Romraider his weekend. But before that, I am plan to do to look at all grounds and vac lines, the best I can. And I am also going to pull the camcovers and check out the behavior of the tensioner for the timing belt.
 

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Car: 2008 Tribeca, 2010 LGT, Sold: 2005 XT Limited
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2,926 Posts
07 to 09 had a common issue with the intake gaskets. Maybe at this age, yours is having something similar. Anyway, it's most likely a leak somewhere.
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
Joined
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16,174 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
It is not the timing belt tensioner. I took cam covers off today and observed the idler/tensioner...no bouncing...smooth running.

On to intake and vacuum leak investigation. I haven't logged any data yet, getting ready tho.
 

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I have a 2005 Outback XT heavily modded as well. VF52/FMIC/1000cc injectors as well as all the supporting items needed for these major components.

Well once I installed these and got my car tuned, I was in heaven for a few months! I opened this car up on the freeway any chance I got. Its how the car should have come from the factory...

Then on my way to work (casually driving mind you) the car dies 10' from my work parking spot. Thats when my problems started. I had to replace a number of sensors. the battery, and alternator. All of which solved my error codes, but the car developed this low idle when in gear. It used to have a strong 750'ish rpm in D brakes applied and now its closer to 500 + or - . In P or N its closer to 850'ish.

I have combed the internet and have DONE IT ALL with no success getting those RPM's back.
 

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05 Xt beatin' to an inch of its life
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622 Posts
You guys can get a cheap used Accessport, marry it to the car, and turn the idle up. I don’t think you have to flash or write one of their maps to your ecus to do this. But I could be wrong.
 
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