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The CVT failure was belt slippage.
Considering that they suggest frequent CVT fluid changes if you tow repeatedly, I suspect that has to do with preventing high torque belt slippage, so I like your plan on having the fluid changed as cheap insurance.

The videos I've seen of belt slippage are similar to yours - it seems like it's not because of high torque, but almost as if the transmission's clamping pressure isn't enough - seems like it happens up a slight grade even with mild acceleration and nothing being towed.
 

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It could be that the Toyota salesman was still going off of old information and isn't aware of changes that have been made. Who knows?
Tell me, which Subaru-built timing chain system was it that ever had a design problem or needed maintenance at 80k intervals?

I thought so.

That was a "liar, liar, pants on fire" lie by the Toyota salesman.
 

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Tell me, which Subaru-built timing chain system was it that ever had a design problem or needed maintenance at 80k intervals?

I thought so.

That was a "liar, liar, pants on fire" lie by the Toyota salesman.
Yep and is big reason we went the way that we did, not a big fan of liars!
 

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Tell me, which Subaru-built timing chain system was it that ever had a design problem or needed maintenance at 80k intervals?

I thought so.

That was a "liar, liar, pants on fire" lie by the Toyota salesman.
You seem to give the Toyota salesman credit for actually knowing the difference between a timing chain and a timing belt as well as knowing actual maintenance intervals of competing products. I'm a little more pessimistic. Most car salespeople I have dealt with don't seem to have much actual mechanical knowledge beyond what can be found in sales brochures. My guess is he was clueless enough to actually believe what he was saying, so it wouldn't really qualify as a lie. Not that it makes it any better.
 

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Yep and is big reason we went the way that we did, not a big fan of liars!
Then avoid any dealership or used car lot, the industry is rife with liars and half trusths. In all seriousness, congrats on the purchase.

Out if curiosity had you test driven a Mazda cx5 awd by any chance?

I'm a long time Toyota fan and although I enjoy with my current 3.6R OB, I will likely stick with Mazda down the road. IMO and experience they are close to Toyota in reliability but build much more fun to drive vehicles, much more so then even Subaru. Now that they've fixed their rust issue I can hop on board.
 

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The current Gen RAV4 while a looker IMHO, has no headroom for those over 6 foot tall, at 6'2" with a large build, I'm not close to fitting into one. (Head well into sunroof, and touching the glass). Rear seat rock hard, and a less compliant/noisier ride.

My $0.02, having looked at one. I like my '12 better.
Yep my step son Hadmsame problem....couldn’t fit either......the new transmission and engine are giving new owners fits..... we’ve has a 2006 and a 2010 RAV that were rock solid.... the 2006 got to 254000 miles and the 2010 was totaled at the curb by a distracted driver.
 

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You seem to give the Toyota salesman credit for actually knowing the difference between a timing chain and a timing belt as well as knowing actual maintenance intervals of competing products. I'm a little more pessimistic. Most car salespeople I have dealt with don't seem to have much actual mechanical knowledge beyond what can be found in sales brochures. My guess is he was clueless enough to actually believe what he was saying, so it wouldn't really qualify as a lie. Not that it makes it any better.
When I first got into selling cars for Subaru around this time of year four years ago I truly thought that all my knowledge of the brand and having a resource like this site would be a tremendous advantage. And yes it was, what I learned though is that it is not a good idea to try to show customers how much you know either about what you are selling or anything else. More often than not it has an affect that is opposite of my intention and usually ended up hurting me and my business.

Heck I found it better to act like a complete ignoramus (which if you have read enough of my posts here you know that is not hard for me to accomplish) and go on a learning adventure with my customers to discover things together. That is actually a big part of what made me successful, not acting like I was smarter and knew better. If I needed to I could talk Subaru details and smack talk the competition with the best of'em but most often I just didn't need to.
 

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When I first got into selling cars for Subaru around this time of year four years ago I truly thought that all my knowledge of the brand and having a resource like this site would be a tremendous advantage. And yes it was, what I learned though is that it is not a good idea to try to show customers how much you know either about what you are selling or anything else. More often than not it has an affect that is opposite of my intention and usually ended up hurting me and my business.

Heck I found it better to act like a complete ignoramus (which if you have read enough of my posts here you know that is not hard for me to accomplish) and go on a learning adventure with my customers to discover things together. That is actually a big part of what made me successful, not acting like I was smarter and knew better. If I needed to I could talk Subaru details and smack talk the competition with the best of'em but most often I just didn't need to.
Dale Carnegie 101, sell the sizzle, not the steak.
 

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What I learned though is that it is not a good idea to try to show customers how much you know either about what you are selling or anything else. More often than not it has an affect that is opposite of my intention and usually ended up hurting me and my business.
For the longest time it seemed to me that salesman are not very well informed about the vehicles they're selling, and now I'm wondering if they, like you, played dumb, or unlike you, were actually dumb.

I consider myself as a technical/facts oriented person but when it comes to car buying, for me it's an emotional decision - though I've been an enthusiast for all of my life. What's going on in the mind of the average buyer? Is it purely practical considerations, or are they likewise making emotional decisions.

I'm curious if any of these apply in your saying information didn't help:

a) giving them information they didn't ask for, e.g. going over strong points and they didn't care about and felt pressured by a "sales pitch"?

b) getting into detail answering a question they asked, but it was too much technical detail and got them thinking, uncomfortable, feeling things were over their head, and blocked them making a decision?

c) you raised issues in the spirit of full disclosure - e.g. saying that it's important to stick to scheduled maintenance on a Subaru with quality oil - raising doubt about their ability to take adequate care of the car or its reliability if they do it wrong?

d) talking about subaru's past problems, e.g. head gasket leaks and saying it's been fixed now (knock on wood)?

In reflecting over the salemen that i "liked the best" they were the ones that were calm, pleasant, low key.

Since I pretty much had already thoroughly researched the vehicle before going to the showroom. I just wanted to get a test drive, have questions answered, and complete the transaction.
 

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For the longest time it seemed to me that salesman are not very well informed about the vehicles they're selling, and now I'm wondering if they, like you, played dumb, or unlike you, were actually dumb.

I consider myself as a technical/facts oriented person but when it comes to car buying, for me it's an emotional decision - though I've been an enthusiast for all of my life. What's going on in the mind of the average buyer? Is it purely practical considerations, or are they likewise making emotional decisions.

I'm curious if any of these apply in your saying information didn't help:

a) giving them information they didn't ask for, e.g. going over strong points and they didn't care about and felt pressured by a "sales pitch"?

b) getting into detail answering a question they asked, but it was too much technical detail and got them thinking, uncomfortable, feeling things were over their head, and blocked them making a decision?

c) you raised issues in the spirit of full disclosure - e.g. saying that it's important to stick to scheduled maintenance on a Subaru with quality oil - raising doubt about their ability to take adequate care of the car or its reliability if they do it wrong?

d) talking about subaru's past problems, e.g. head gasket leaks and saying it's been fixed now (knock on wood)?

In reflecting over the salemen that i "liked the best" they were the ones that were calm, pleasant, low key.

Since I pretty much had already thoroughly researched the vehicle before going to the showroom. I just wanted to get a test drive, have questions answered, and complete the transaction.
It is difficult to get into detail, without speaking at great length, to describe how I have chosen to operate so to produce the level of success I have been able to achieve. I would just say that I primarily act on intuition that has been honed by experience and failure. Upon having time I would say that I am calculating in how I think things through and have found it best to slow things down for the benefit of the customer and myself.

One of my managers always said, "Everyone wants to go fast. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast." When you can make sense of that I can assure you better results. It is best to answer pertinent questions when asked with as much detail as necessary. I have never found any random interjection of information helpful on the premise that "if I just said this" I would be at an advantage.

Car sales is not much different from being a lawyer, politician, or pro wrestler in so many ways. All are viewed with similar disdain as well :poop:
 

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One of my managers always said, "Everyone wants to go fast. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast." When you can make sense of that I can assure you better results.
Wow. The salesmen I liked best had a slowness about them - very relaxed, no rushed speech, even movements were slow. Wonder if they were doing that intentionally. Thanks for that gem!
 

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Car sales is not much different from being a lawyer, politician, or pro wrestler in so many ways. All are viewed with similar disdain as well :poop:
Come to think of it there were a couple of interactions with car salesmen where I had the urge to break a chair over their head.


Side note: Last week I watched a replay of Wrestlemania III from 1987 with the main event being Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant.
Entertainment gold right there. :ROFLMAO:
 

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Wow. The salesmen I liked best had a slowness about them - very relaxed, no rushed speech, even movements were slow. Wonder if they were doing that intentionally. Thanks for that gem!
I think it in terms of the anxiety that comes with making any major purpose. Everyone has it to some extent when they come to buy a car, some less and some to an extreme. The more you do that contributes less to that anxiety the smoother things will go. Getting frantic about "making things happen" usually as quickly as possible aids no one and nothing.

I like to talk about what I call the mental threshold everyone need cross. You have a lot of anxiety prior to making the commitment but once you make it the anxiety goes away and you can enjoy, and even get excited about thinking about driving that car home. In a sense it is like giving birth, the mother goes through a lot but when that baby comes out it is all joy.

Come to think of it there were a couple of interactions with car salesmen where I had the urge to break a chair over their head.


Side note: Last week I watched a replay of Wrestlemania III from 1987 with the main event being Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant.
Entertainment gold right there. :ROFLMAO:
I prefer the haircut match after which Adrian Adonis gets cut up by Beefer.

I actually like to think about selling cars in that it is a bit of a performing arts. My family has a background in drama which I was heavily involved in during my earlier years. My brother works on Broadway and is even married to a Broadway actress. I just put on a good show for people and they end up buying cars 🎭
 

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Wow. The salesmen I liked best had a slowness about them - very relaxed, no rushed speech, even movements were slow. Wonder if they were doing that intentionally. Thanks for that gem!
I think a lot depends on the buyer too. I like guys who are relaxed, chilled but know product and if they don’t know something they admit to that. I always go in well prepared and have couple questions to which I know answers but I want to see what they know. Big thing for me is All that additional services/warranties and they have to mention them but once is enough. When buying my 08 finance guy wanted to sell me additional warranty. Within 30 minutes he tried 30 times. It was ridiculous. Also turned out he lied as he said only now only today. Turned out I had way longer than “today and now” - if not mistaken it was till bumper to bumper warranty runs out. Well getting off topic here. @foxman350 - congrats on a purchase. Welcome to the club ;)
 

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I prefer the haircut match after which Adrian Adonis gets cut up by Beefer.
I hadn't remembered just how awkward that haircut was. You would think somebody would have thought to check if the blades in the trimmer were actually sharp enough to cut hair. :ROFLMAO:
At least he finally gave up and went to the scissors.
 

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Interesting, check out this other thread about another Toyota salesman saying similar misinformed things. Perhaps you both ran into the same one???

This sounded very familiar to me, then I remembered, I wrote this and was recalling the experience.
 

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Consumer Reports does a very poor job of explaining that both the RAV 4 and CR-V do not actually have AWD in the traditional sense, they are a FWD platform that have a limited usability (ie. just enough to get out off of a slippery surface). Put them in some deeper snow and it becomes obvious what is actually an AWD vehicle..
 

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Im waiting for the Rav4 Prime.
 
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