Subaru Outback Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
61 - 80 of 124 Posts

·
Registered
'10 3.6R Outback Limited, 2zr swapped Toyota Yaris track toy, '12 Mazda3 skyactive
Joined
·
432 Posts
I'm confused as to where the new Venza sits. It just looks like a different styled rav4.

People can claim all they want about Toyota's current quality but at the end of the day they are by far one of the most reliable vehicles on the road. Go for a walk door to door to local independant mechanic if shops and ask them, or simply start wrenching on cars for a decade and own a handful of various cars.

Reliable they are but they are also boring. IMO subaru used to be a good in between for people wanting more fun, but in the current day I feel Mazda has done and is doing a much better job at that by far. Subaru's are what they are and are not bad by any means, I just feel there are other manufacturers that do things better for most daily drivers. I think Subaru's old charm and what made them good has become victim to Subaru trying to become larger and more mainstream. Yes this will help them sell more, but people like me will likely not own a Subaru again (I also never buy new so take that for what it is)
 

·
Registered
2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/ Eyesight
Joined
·
260 Posts
I will say that the Venza did have a terrific interior and the best part about it was that while you were inside one you didn't have to look at that hideous front end.
Reminds me of my 2 Pontiac Azteks. Most people thought they were ugly. I didn't mind it. However, I've never found a better designed and useful interior!
 

·
SubaruOutback.org Founder
2018 Outbacks, Grey Premium & Silver Limited
Joined
·
4,806 Posts
And they have actually succeeded in making the 2021 model even more hideous than this previous model - which admittedly is just another variant of everyone's "look big" approach to grills, bumper covers, and and air dams:

Looks too much like a Mazda. Lexus stated the big grille trend with the most recent RX
Reminds me of my 2 Pontiac Azteks. Most people thought they were ugly. I didn't mind it. However, I've never found a better designed and useful interior!
I worked at a Pontiac dealership many moons ago and had multiple friends who owned an Aztek. For as much as many people wanted to bag on the awkward styling I never heard an owner actually complain about the vehicle itself. In fact it is a vehicle beloved by those I know and even enjoys a bit of a cult following among collectors nowadays. One of my friends bought one of the last produced Azteks for his wife and she still has it to this day as her main vehicle. It is still in great condition and frankly pretty nice, I would not mind having it myself.
 

·
Registered
2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/ Eyesight
Joined
·
260 Posts
In fact it is a vehicle beloved by those I know and even enjoys a bit of a cult following among collectors nowadays.
You can say I was one of those. I still have the original Aztek promotional pamphlets from 2001, and 2004. I went to the 2003 rally in New York. My 04 was a loaded Rally Edition missing only the leather, heads up display, and moon roof.

On a new vehicle, test drive. Drive the version of the vehicle you can afford, Try to do it as closely together as you can so your memory is fresh. I did my research. When I needed a new vehicle I narrowed it down to 1, the Outback. It had the fuel economy I wanted and the size I needed for my hobbies. I didn't test drive a 3.6 because I knew I'd want to have it. So know what you need when you test drive it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,329 Posts
There are many great looking Pontiac's. Have owned a few myself, some I regret selling, some I would still like to own.

Like many, the Aztek is pretty high up on one of the ugliest vehicles ever. Right up there with the 1st gen Subaru Tribeca.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
We are pretty set on buying an Outback but wanted to check out the RAV4, of course Toyota sales person wanted to talk down the Subaru. this is where my questions come from. He told me at 80k miles I would have to replace the timing chain, and then again at 160k. I can’t find any info searching google if this is true or not so asking you all of it is true or not?
I looked at the 2020 RAV4 first. Both wife and I had issues getting in and out of the front seats, narrow doors made us bang ourknees every time. It was noisy as well. We are avg build, 69 and 66.

left for the Subaru dealer next and drove the 2020 Outback limited. Then just ordered the Touring model. Just a great car for how we use it. 7 months old now and 2500 mile. Just an excellent car. Just wish the Start Stop feature was optional to turn off and not reset every time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
We are pretty set on buying an Outback but wanted to check out the RAV4, of course Toyota sales person wanted to talk down the Subaru. this is where my questions come from. He told me at 80k miles I would have to replace the timing chain, and then again at 160k. I can’t find any info searching google if this is true or not so asking you all of it is true or not?
We are pretty set on buying an Outback but wanted to check out the RAV4, of course Toyota sales person wanted to talk down the Subaru. this is where my questions come from. He told me at 80k miles I would have to replace the timing chain, and then again at 160k. I can’t find any info searching google if this is true or not so asking you all of it is true or not?
The older Subaru 4 cylinder had a timing belt that was supposed to be changed every 100K miles. Being an “inference type engine”, a broken timing belt could be a catastrophic problem. The 6 cylinders have always had a timing chain. I have a 2004 OB with over 250K miles and the timing chain has never been an issue. This summer when the Toyota Plugin RAV4 hybrid is released, I’m going to replace my 2002 OB with the RAV4 hybrid. The available power is unbelievable and it’s capable of ~40 mpg and fully charged it can run 39 miles on battery only.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
We are pretty set on buying an Outback but wanted to check out the RAV4, of course Toyota sales person wanted to talk down the Subaru. this is where my questions come from. He told me at 80k miles I would have to replace the timing chain, and then again at 160k. I can’t find any info searching google if this is true or not so asking you all of it is true or not?
I just received my 2020- 4th outback, had 1995 234k miles 2000 430k miles 2010 284k miles and now the 2020...
The timing chain does not need to be replaced since the 2011 upgrade.
I have the 2.5 liter motor, cause it is the same great motor they have had to 30 years, I did not go for the turbo as it is not sequential with the cvt trans....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
My son had the same choice and went with the RAV 4 based on our experience with Outback. 2010 - head gasket 80K $2500, 2012 - transmission 90K- lucked out warranty, 2015 - 70K cam cap oil leak $4000 (just milking it for not, I will replace when gets bad enough). So no timing chain but we are 0 for 3 and I'm talking major repairs.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
Joined
·
13,345 Posts
Outback vs Rav4 is a big difference. Size, capability, interior space, overall class/type. Forester vs Rav4 would've been a more reasonable match up in comparing vehicles, but the Forester would still come out on top.
Wait for a rainy day and take a flyover curved ramp at the suggested speed on the wet roads with a Rav4 and then take any Subaru on the same flyover. You'll feel it. The back end of the Rav4 will slip sideways, the front end won't want to steer the line you want.

I bought the car with about 60K on it, so I don't know if the CVT fluid had been changed but I doubt it. As for for towing, I have not but who knows about the first owner. The CVT failure was belt slippage. It would happen only between 60-65mph with very little load on the engine. I'd have to be on the highway, get out of the gas and back on very gently in that speed range and it would squeal for about a second and you could feel a very slight jerk as the belt caught again. If the radio were on you might not notice it. I probably could have driven it quite a while before it failed completely. I've been following the fluid debate and it seems a no brainer to me. If I keep the car, I'll be changing at 30K. It can't hurt and if it fixes the problem it's cheap insurance.
The torque converter solenoid on the valve body creates the problem. It gets worse over time from there. The jerking starts in the TCC, not the chain that runs between the pulleys. The chain wears due to old fluid and/or debris in the system due to TCC issues.

The updated valve body is proving to last longer and so far I've not seen any issues from cars that have had the valve body replaced. I've done a lot of replacements and the customers are in regularly, so I have the opportunity to check how things are going.

No towing or heavy loads on a regular and a 50k miles interval seems to be the limit on fluid. By 50k it's starting to turn a brackish grey/brown.

I just received my 2020- 4th outback, had 1995 234k miles 2000 430k miles 2010 284k miles and now the 2020...
The timing chain does not need to be replaced since the 2011 upgrade.
I have the 2.5 liter motor, cause it is the same great motor they have had to 30 years, I did not go for the turbo as it is not sequential with the cvt trans....
Subaru has WRX and XT versions with a CVT. We've got a 16 Forester with a 2.5 turbo and CVT that has been given a "little" extra boost and has been tuned. 😁 Speeds up to and over 130 are smooth. CVT response is a killer. And it wants to keep going. (And before you say anything we have 2 race tracks in the Austin area The older one was used for formula one practice and training long before the COTA track. Harris Hill Raceway)

Also have a stock 14 XT Forester and the CVT in it is smooth.

The advantage with an auto or CVT behind a boosted engine is the boost stays up through the gear ranges better than a manual. The CVT advantage is the boost stays consistent through the ranges because the engine rpm doesn't change. It really gets up and goes and keeps going.
 

·
Registered
2019 Outback 3.6R Limited with Nav/Moonroof/RAB-Rear CrossTraffic Alert
Joined
·
94 Posts
We are pretty set on buying an Outback but wanted to check out the RAV4, of course Toyota sales person wanted to talk down the Subaru. this is where my questions come from. He told me at 80k miles I would have to replace the timing chain, and then again at 160k. I can’t find any info searching google if this is true or not so asking you all of it is true or not?
I'm an 2019 Outback 3.6R Limited owner--my second Subaru. My first one was a 2012 Forester 2.5i Premium with a 5MT (that I miss so much!). In my opinion the RAV4 compares best with the Forester. There is no comparison with the Outback which is larger and a much nicer vehicle (though that's subjective). What's not subjective is that it's in a very different class since the Outback is based on the Subaru Legacy.

My understanding is that timing "chains" don't require replacement at all--it is timing "belts" that require replacement. The one issue you could potentially run into with the Subaru is oil leakage/excessive oil consumption. I had that issue with my Forester and had to add a quart of oil a few times between oil changes (excuse me? It's not 1950!) It used 0W-20 oil which has all the viscosity of water which I think made it more likely to seap through the gaskets of its horizontal cylinders. My Subaru service rep indicated when I was considering the 6 cylinder outback over the 4 said "there are less issues" with the 6 (the 4 had the same engine as the forester at the time). My 6 cylinder uses 5W-30 oil, which is what my 2003 Pontiac Vibe used. I feel confident that I'm not going to have the oil issues with this Subaru.

Notcie that the oil issues, which did irk me, did not deter me from buying another Subaru. I love how they handle when the roads get bad--so much more sure footed. Their safety systems are top notch, they drive well, are comfortable to be in and I'm just loving my Outback. My Forester was the best vehicle I had ever owned by far when I bought it and the Outback is light years ahead of the Forester. I'm noticebly less fatigued on my marathon, 1-day drives from NJ to MI to visit my father. The interior environment, from the firm leather seats, great sound system, quiet cabin and smooth, quiet and refined engine all contribute to a less fatigueing ride. The CVT (my first automatic transmission) drives like a typical auto tranny, at least the way I remember them from my teenage years driving my parent's cars.

My only concern with the 2020 Outback are the touchscreen controls for everything--it sounds ike a distracting pain in the @ss and I'm glad I have the controls I have in my 2019, at least for now. Subaru needs to work those bugs out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
There is no doubt that Toyota is one of the most dependable car brands around, I like toyota and honda for that reason. So far I have owned a 2012 outback 3.6R and just got a 2020 in Feb. The greatest feature of owning a subaru is the price for insurance, so much cheaper than my cruze or my saturn. We went with the outback because my wife had a hard time seeing out the back side windows in the rav4, the ride is also much smoother in the outback.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
We are pretty set on buying an Outback but wanted to check out the RAV4, of course Toyota sales person wanted to talk down the Subaru. this is where my questions come from. He told me at 80k miles I would have to replace the timing chain, and then again at 160k. I can’t find any info searching google if this is true or not so asking you all of it is true or not?
My 2012 OB was getting ready to turn 90K miles when COVID-19 hit KY. I cancelled an upcoming appointment for my 90K maintenance that included replacing the timing chain. The service employee told me replacing the water pump at the same time was strictly up to me, but the chain was part of the scheduled maintenance.
I was so happy with my Subaru for the first couple years. The vehicle has left me stranded on the side of the road two times due to computer issues. I had the computer replaced when the car didn't have very many miles on it at a cost of approximately $800. Five or six years later, I got a letter from Subaru asking for a receipt for out of pocket cost to repair it. I was promptly issued a reimbursement for every penny I spent. I recently experienced the same problem when I stopped at a garden center and turned the car off for a few minutes while I checked on a tree in the inventory. I was about ten miles from home and was able to get family to assist me. I left messages and spoke with someone at the dealership the day after the incident. No one returned my call. When I called back, I got an appointment exactly a week later. This will the first year I have ever failed to travel to my family's cemetery for Memorial Day due to an unsafe vehicle. My last five cars have been Toyotas with four being purchased brand new. I had a '99 Rav-4 and loved it. I put a lot of miles on it driving from rural KY to my job in Louisville. I decided to buy another Rav-4 in 2002 and liked it just as much. My last Rav-4 was a gently used '08. It didn't take long to realize why the previous owner hadn't put many miles on it. I couldn't wait to sell or trade it.
My brother in law drove my OB and has purchased two since that time. The handling is amazing, safety is #1 and their resell is at the top of the list. However, I have never had as many recalls and spent so much on maintenance as I have on my OB.
 

·
Registered
2010 Outback 3.6R 2014 Legacy 2.5i 2003 Legacy L special edition (retired to backup)
Joined
·
955 Posts
best thing about an outback is that it has the same seating position as the legacy aka car seating. the forrester and rav 4 are definitely not as good in that department as they are like driving a truck (more formal type of seating)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
We are pretty set on buying an Outback but wanted to check out the RAV4, of course Toyota sales person wanted to talk down the Subaru. this is where my questions come from. He told me at 80k miles I would have to replace the timing chain, and then again at 160k. I can’t find any info searching google if this is true or not so asking you all of it is true or not?
Their turbo is crap! Have a Ascent with it and would never buy another from them with turbo!
 

·
Registered
2010 Outback 3.6R 2014 Legacy 2.5i 2003 Legacy L special edition (retired to backup)
Joined
·
955 Posts
the turbo engine is nice, however the CVT is not well sorted when you give it the beans
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
I would not buy another vehicle with a CVT. They are expensive to replace. My 2012 lasted about 83K and was recently replaced under the 10yr./100K warranty extension. If I had to pay for it myself it would have been $9,000. I was told that the internals have not been upgraded, at least for my year. So if I keep this car, the next CVT will be on me. I have no idea if newer model Subaru CVT's have been re-designed to last longer and I'm not going to find out. The technology just does not seem mature to me. If the cost of replacement were reasonable, I'd reconsider because I like the car. I like how it runs and drives, it's great in the snow and it is comfortable. I wish Subaru would ditch the CVT and put a 6 speed automatic in.
no, they're not going to put in a 8 speed trany (6 is obsolete, along w/the boxer eng) also, you don't want to replace a water pump, which runs off the timing chain. the engine has to come out. the CVT is made by JATCO (Nissan) what does that tell you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
You seem to give the Toyota salesman credit for actually knowing the difference between a timing chain and a timing belt as well as knowing actual maintenance intervals of competing products. I'm a little more pessimistic. Most car salespeople I have dealt with don't seem to have much actual mechanical knowledge beyond what can be found in sales brochures. My guess is he was clueless enough to actually believe what he was saying, so it wouldn't really qualify as a lie. Not that it makes it any better.
i never met a salesman that knew anything about the car he was selling. in fact one salesman said if i read the brochure, i would know more than him !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
I looked at the 2020 RAV4 first. Both wife and I had issues getting in and out of the front seats, narrow doors made us bang ourknees every time. It was noisy as well. We are avg build, 69 and 66.

left for the Subaru dealer next and drove the 2020 Outback limited. Then just ordered the Touring model. Just a great car for how we use it. 7 months old now and 2500 mile. Just an excellent car. Just wish the Start Stop feature was optional to turn off and not reset every time.
when i was inquiring about the 2020 outback touring, i asked if there was a free limited maintenance, the manager said "this isn't a toyota dealer" !! he was right, bunch of downright nasty people.
 

·
Registered
2018 3.6R Outback Limited
Joined
·
25 Posts
The Toyota salesman is a total ignorant and crook. A timing BELT should be changed supposedly at 60,000 miles in a Honda, my old Corolla had it like new at 80k and I replaced it. A Mazda Protege with 100 was like new.
A 3.6R and these new turbo engines have a timing chain and they basically last forever as long as you keep it with oil.
As far as weather I would buy a RAV4 vs an Outback, NO. No way Jose.
I chose 3 times a Subaru vs any other front wheel drive brand. Why? The engines is longitudinal, the front differential sends the power like a normal car to the wheels [no curves] and the front U joints last much more than regular transversal front engine cars. The load on the front outside U joints is much less.
My current 3.6R is 20 months old and it has already 30k, no problems. My last 2.5i Premium, 22k and only oil changes, wheel alignment.
You will not regret buying a Subaru. I recommend the turbo limited.
 
61 - 80 of 124 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top