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2000 subaru OBS limited 189k just replaced head gaskets timing belt water pump good to go for another 100k
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Discussion Starter #1
hey guys,

i have a 2000 subaru outback sedan limited, i have been doing my research and i have come down to 2 CAI one by cosmoracing :
Street Tuning Auto Piece BMW Performance Parts - COSMO Racing

or a injen CAI:
INJEN® - Subaru Impreza 2000-2001 RD Series Cold Air Intake System

and possibly a third option of bending my own piping and making my own aluminum airbox with short pipe and cone filter right off the TB, encased in a equally sized airbox as far as square " with two pipes feeding the airbox from each side that lead to almost the oem air intake spot but more direct and two pipes one on each side of the motor.

any thoughts or ideas, suggestions?

thanks!
 

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'05 2.5i H4 4-Speed Auto w/Sportshift
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My suggestion is.....

My suggestion is to keep the car completely stock and spend your money on gas.

If you insist, then my response is:
It's your car, do as you wish.
 

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1998 Legacy Outback 5MT(engine pooped), 1999 Legacy outback 5MT(new baby)
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To be honest you will get no gains from any of those, apart from a nicer looking engine bay. There is some evidence that power is actually lost by using a non factory system. Think of your current air intake......it has been finely tuned at the factory and been developed over some years to get optimal performance for your engine. Plus....unless you already have headers and larger diameter exhaust it will just be a nice looking bit of pipe in your engine bay. Up to you though at the end of the day.

POD Filters Mythbusted - YouTube

and

Cold Air Intakes Mythbusted - YouTube


these vids will explain all.
 

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2012 Subaru Outback Premium 2.5
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214 Posts
Having the cosmo short ram installed ill say i do notice a difference. After doing the research i wasnt so concerned about the hp gain which is around 8hp. What i see is better responce in the low end. My mpg has gone up but only minor. I also converted mine to a cold air intake to get the most out if it. I went with cosmo for the price. Otherwise i would have gotten the takeda cai. Your going to get a lot of people that say dont it. When it comes down to it, its your car. Have fun and enjoy it!
 

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2000 subaru OBS limited 189k just replaced head gaskets timing belt water pump good to go for another 100k
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33 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
thanks for the input guys i do plan on getting a borla header and stromung track down pipe ... possibly to a glasspack or maybe just straight piped. it is nice to hear the engine actually open up a bit though the nice growl you get from the boxer. just today actually while pending purchasing an intake i took the extra 3 bits of useless plastic off and plugged the holes, and i think it seems to be running better just by doing that.
 

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2002 Outback Wagon 2.5L Auto Weather Package
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That Injen is not made to fit your chassis, its for an Impreza based car, not your Legacy based car. It might, sort of, but don't expect a perfect bolt-in. The Cosmo would fit right. However, as others have noted, losing the stock 'torque box' intake would likely lose low end power. If you were building the motor for more power at higher RPM, the Cosmo might suit.

As for pod filters, they often have less surface area than a stock panel unit, and thus actually flow less. They're easy to locate in a fair number of applications, and the 'CAI' makers get to use ONE filter for basically ALL of their applications - gee, why do you think they promote pods?

If you've looked around enough, you've seen the ducting mods people - myself included - have done to their stock setups. You don't lose the stock air box, you have options of intake air location, and there's room for you to adjust as you need. I think if i was going for an increase in power in my setup, I'd find a way to increase the ducting diameter in addition to the less convoluted routing I did. (In my case, I was just looking for slightly better throttle response and sound, and a fairly stock looking and fitting setup, and I got that with how I did it.)
 

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2000 subaru OBS limited 189k just replaced head gaskets timing belt water pump good to go for another 100k
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Discussion Starter #7
That Injen is not made to fit your chassis, its for an Impreza based car, not your Legacy based car. It might, sort of, but don't expect a perfect bolt-in. The Cosmo would fit right. However, as others have noted, losing the stock 'torque box' intake would likely lose low end power. If you were building the motor for more power at higher RPM, the Cosmo might suit.

As for pod filters, they often have less surface area than a stock panel unit, and thus actually flow less. They're easy to locate in a fair number of applications, and the 'CAI' makers get to use ONE filter for basically ALL of their applications - gee, why do you think they promote pods?

If you've looked around enough, you've seen the ducting mods people - myself included - have done to their stock setups. You don't lose the stock air box, you have options of intake air location, and there's room for you to adjust as you need. I think if i was going for an increase in power in my setup, I'd find a way to increase the ducting diameter in addition to the less convoluted routing I did. (In my case, I was just looking for slightly better throttle response and sound, and a fairly stock looking and fitting setup, and I got that with how I did it.)
well this is what i was thinking of doing, my apologies im no artist but im thinking of making an aluminum air box similar in size to OEM cutting three holes in it one for a small pipe from the TB to a LARGE cone filter, the other two off the sides and each would wrap around the motor to the OEM air intake location and basically i would remake the OEM scoop like parts bigger/wider basically take up that whole space between the hood and radiator mount so basically just doubling the OEM style intake just making it straighter, a bit bigger and more durable.

any thoughts on that?
 

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To be honest you will get no gains from any of those, apart from a nicer looking engine bay. There is some evidence that power is actually lost by using a non factory system. Think of your current air intake......it has been finely tuned at the factory and been developed over some years to get optimal performance for your engine. Plus....unless you already have headers and larger diameter exhaust it will just be a nice looking bit of pipe in your engine bay. Up to you though at the end of the day.

POD Filters Mythbusted - YouTube

and

Cold Air Intakes Mythbusted - YouTube


these vids will explain all.

Do you believe everything you see? the test they did was CRAP, sticking a cone filter on the end of the stock intake pipe is dumb as ****! the piping that runs into the turbo OR TB is gonna make the power. the stupid rippled hose that comes stock on every car in the world is the problem. have you ever heard of a tuned length intake? i'm gonna guess no. in fact probably 95% of the ppl here haven't so i'm gonna explain.

First things first: This ONLY works on a N/A Application.
First get a base line Dyno #. this way you know what the car is making before you do the work i'm about to explain.

A Dyno tuned length intake isn't as simple as sticking the longest piece of pipe as far into the fender as you can.
you start out with about 3 feet of piping off the TB lets just say it's 2.5" piping. you do a dyno pull. chances are you're gonna make less power because the pipe is too long. Now you start cutting. take 2 inches off. another pull. (it makes more) another 2 inches off. another pull (picks up more) another 2 inches, it picks up more, this time passes your stock number. now you go for 1 inch and it makes more. you do this until it makes the same or starts dropping now they know how long to make the intake. so they make it fit under the hood and you're good to go. usually on a basic N/A DOHC B-series Honda for example you can make 15-20 WHP. the reason this works is it uses ALL the power mods that you have and actually makes USE of them. every time you change something to add power like the exhaust, or a ported intake manifold, or high compression pistons or whatever it is the harmonics of the motor changes. this maximizes the intake flow and is tuned to HOW motor actually acts. it's just like pressing down on a button of an instrument. they change the tone and each one sounds different. this is like pressing the happy button for your engine.
 

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Do you believe everything you see? the test they did was CRAP, sticking a cone filter on the end of the stock intake pipe is dumb as ****! the piping that runs into the turbo OR TB is gonna make the power. the stupid rippled hose that comes stock on every car in the world is the problem. have you ever heard of a tuned length intake? i'm gonna guess no. in fact probably 95% of the ppl here haven't so i'm gonna explain.

First things first: This ONLY works on a N/A Application.
First get a base line Dyno #. this way you know what the car is making before you do the work i'm about to explain.

A Dyno tuned length intake isn't as simple as sticking the longest piece of pipe as far into the fender as you can.
you start out with about 3 feet of piping off the TB lets just say it's 2.5" piping. you do a dyno pull. chances are you're gonna make less power because the pipe is too long. Now you start cutting. take 2 inches off. another pull. (it makes more) another 2 inches off. another pull (picks up more) another 2 inches, it picks up more, this time passes your stock number. now you go for 1 inch and it makes more. you do this until it makes the same or starts dropping now they know how long to make the intake. so they make it fit under the hood and you're good to go. usually on a basic N/A DOHC B-series Honda for example you can make 15-20 WHP. the reason this works is it uses ALL the power mods that you have and actually makes USE of them. every time you change something to add power like the exhaust, or a ported intake manifold, or high compression pistons or whatever it is the harmonics of the motor changes. this maximizes the intake flow and is tuned to HOW motor actually acts. it's just like pressing down on a button of an instrument. they change the tone and each one sounds different. this is like pressing the happy button for your engine.
I had heard of this method before as a way to create an exceptional home brew intake. And you make tons of good points. The problem is most of us do not have a dyno...:mad: But alas! We do have the ability to test the snot out of it the old fashion way; feel. All the Honda kids I knew who built their own intakes used this method and tweaked the intakes to be what they felt rendered the best final product. The odd part is 2 'identical' cars could have some huge variance in what felt best.
 

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2000 subaru OBS limited 189k just replaced head gaskets timing belt water pump good to go for another 100k
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Discussion Starter #10
Even if it were true they didn't do avg. MPG... like on the CAI one they showed cooler air being achieved and only 3hp .. but that has to have some effect on your MPG
 

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Even if it were true they didn't do avg. MPG... like on the CAI one they showed cooler air being achieved and only 3hp .. but that has to have some effect on your MPG
the happier the motor is, the better off you are period. and that crap whale penis vacuum hose they did was awful. i would let them touch a pimple on my butt. let alone work under the hood of my cars. probably wouldnt even let them in my garage.
 

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2002 Outback Wagon 2.5L Auto Weather Package
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well this is what i was thinking of doing, my apologies im no artist but im thinking of making an aluminum air box similar in size to OEM cutting three holes in it one for a small pipe from the TB to a LARGE cone filter, the other two off the sides and each would wrap around the motor to the OEM air intake location and basically i would remake the OEM scoop like parts bigger/wider basically take up that whole space between the hood and radiator mount so basically just doubling the OEM style intake just making it straighter, a bit bigger and more durable.

any thoughts on that?
I think you'd be better sticking with the stock panel filter. Again, I suspect any pod you could fit in the box to fit that space would actually have less surface area than the stock panel. If you look at a pod, you can also see how its a natural restriction - you are forcing the surface area all around into a smaller space after it passes the filter.

Unless you plan to do some serious work relocating or deleting stuff on the driver's side of the engine bay, you aren't going to have much if any room for intake ducting like you're picturing. You'll also have to fabricate a snorkel, as the stock one wouldn't just 'flip over' and fit on the other side. You'd be better off finding a way to use a larger diameter of duct from the air box to the snorkel, or even to the fender. The stock snorkel's outlet on the side toward the box is only ~2", so you'd want to find a way to enlarge that. The hole on the passenger's side that goes to the fender is 3" - so you can see that might be a better place if you really want a substantial increase in flow.

However, if you aren't going to do flow work on the heads, intake manifold, and back it up with a bigger cam - you probably don't need to mess with increasing the stock intake duct to 3". My stock snorkel setup only gets the classic 'intake honk' at any loudness going at full throttle from a dead stop around 4k+ rpm (a good indication of when you're really running out of available airflow). That's pretty high up there, where the power band has pretty much peaked anyway. If you're really expecting to drive like that all the time, save your money for the tickets you'll get. :D
 

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2000 subaru OBS limited 189k just replaced head gaskets timing belt water pump good to go for another 100k
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Discussion Starter #13
never got a ticket to date (knock on wood) but... it helps when the police force where i live would rather sit at the local burger king and pastry place then out on the road.

as far as making room, my ac compressor doesnt work, and this is mainly a winter vehicle, that i still enjoy modding a bit. so i dont plan on replacing the compressor so i plan on just removing it and plugging the holes, im thinking that should give me enough room.

i could still incorporate an OEM style panel filter instead of a cone, but you can get some very large cone filters, so i guess ill wait n see. i have given some thought to getting the cosmo, which i may do until i do this. my only problem with that is i bought the car and it had a minor accident on the passenger side. fender and bumper were replaced, however under neath there is some of the plastic splash guard missing on that side which would potentially expose that filter to water, so im somewhat paranoid about doing the fender intake, unless i get a new splash guard
 

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1998 Legacy Outback 5MT(engine pooped), 1999 Legacy outback 5MT(new baby)
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"Do you believe everything you see? the test they did was CRAP, sticking a cone filter on the end of the stock intake pipe is dumb as ****! the piping that runs into the turbo OR TB is gonna make the power. the stupid rippled hose that comes stock on every car in the world is the problem. have you ever heard of a tuned length intake? i'm gonna guess no. in fact probably 95% of the ppl here haven't so i'm gonna explain.

First things first: This ONLY works on a N/A Application.
First get a base line Dyno #. this way you know what the car is making before you do the work i'm about to explain.

A Dyno tuned length intake isn't as simple as sticking the longest piece of pipe as far into the fender as you can.
you start out with about 3 feet of piping off the TB lets just say it's 2.5" piping. you do a dyno pull. chances are you're gonna make less power because the pipe is too long. Now you start cutting. take 2 inches off. another pull. (it makes more) another 2 inches off. another pull (picks up more) another 2 inches, it picks up more, this time passes your stock number. now you go for 1 inch and it makes more. you do this until it makes the same or starts dropping now they know how long to make the intake. so they make it fit under the hood and you're good to go. usually on a basic N/A DOHC B-series Honda for example you can make 15-20 WHP. the reason this works is it uses ALL the power mods that you have and actually makes USE of them. every time you change something to add power like the exhaust, or a ported intake manifold, or high compression pistons or whatever it is the harmonics of the motor changes. this maximizes the intake flow and is tuned to HOW motor actually acts. it's just like pressing down on a button of an instrument. they change the tone and each one sounds different. this is like pressing the happy button for your engine"




Firstly, calm down. Secondly, you clearly have no sense of humour whatsoever. These vids were a comedic way(I think you missed that bit) of explaining my point.... that for most DIY projects there will be very little gains. Watch this video right at the end ( 9.00 onwards) and you'll see that these guys are not making serious documentaries.


How many people actually go to the trouble of having a Subaru outback dyno tuned for a specific filter/intake????? The XTs with mods maybe. Re watch those vids.......they are just a light hearted look at stuff people usually do at home, oh and get yourself a sense of humour aswell.[/QUOTE]
 

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2005 Outback Sedan 3.0R
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I miss my '99 2.5RS. I had unequal length Borla headers and Stromung cat-back exhaust. That was THE best sounding 4-cyl I have ever heard. I got a lot of compliments on the way it sounded.

To compliment the exhaust I modified the stock air plenum chamber attached to the throttle body. What I did was cut out the intake tube in it and installed a 3" or 4" tube (don't remember the exact size, I just know it was bigger) instead and then ran that to the front fender area and used a cone filter with a lot more surface area than the panel filter. I then blocked off the filter with some plastic/plexi like material to try and isolate it from as much engine heat as possible.

I did lose low end torque and "felt" I gained some at the top end. At the time I never checked whether or not the engine was running lean or rich after those mods so I have no clue if the decrease/increase was physical or just mentally perceived BUT, it sure made the car more fun. And even if it was all just psychological due to sound, it was well worth the time and effort to me.
 

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Firstly, calm down. Secondly, you clearly have no sense of humour whatsoever. These vids were a comedic way(I think you missed that bit) of explaining my point.... that for most DIY projects there will be very little gains. Watch this video right at the end ( 9.00 onwards) and you'll see that these guys are not making serious documentaries.

Electric SuperChargers Mythbusted - YouTube

How many people actually go to the trouble of having a Subaru outback dyno tuned for a specific filter/intake????? The XTs with mods maybe. Re watch those vids.......they are just a light hearted look at stuff people usually do at home, oh and get yourself a sense of humour aswell.
[/QUOTE]


I have an great sense of humor , but the context that the Vids we're used in was to show intake's dont do anything. which is false info. As for dynoing subaru outback's... IDK it depends on how serious you are about getting the most power you can. i can tell you this. when the exhaust falls off the car im driving now, im gonna have a catless one made. 3" to duel 2.5". and i may have a header made for it also. after that's done ill have a Dyno tuned intake made and see what kind of gains there are. id be willing to bet it will pick up 20-25WHP maybe more because im on a 3.0.
 

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1998 Legacy Outback 5MT(engine pooped), 1999 Legacy outback 5MT(new baby)
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I have an great sense of humor , but the context that the Vids we're used in was to show intake's dont do anything. which is false info. As for dynoing subaru outback's... IDK it depends on how serious you are about getting the most power you can. i can tell you this. when the exhaust falls off the car im driving now, im gonna have a catless one made. 3" to duel 2.5". and i may have a header made for it also. after that's done ill have a Dyno tuned intake made and see what kind of gains there are. id be willing to bet it will pick up 20-25WHP maybe more because im on a 3.0.[/QUOTE]


Actually the context of the videos is like I said earlier, most fans of the show are just DIY modders at home in the garage( most of their episodes are filmed at martys mums house.....) these are not about tuning an intake to within an inch of its life. They just happen to be using a dyno to illustrate what most what not be able to see without endless testing on the road.
Marty in the other episodes is actually very skilled mechanic, but he is NOT professional.

Lifes too short to have an argument about this.......it was just meant as a joke. I do as much modding as the next guy, but I am not under the illusion that my engine is going to get much more powerful
I
 

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2002 Outback Wagon 2.5L Auto Weather Package
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I'm surprised nobody is selling 'nitrous kits' that use whippit cans. It'd be about the same class of product that 'electric supercharger' is. There are real electrically driven turbo or superchargers, but they aren't cheap little units like that. More like this:
Valeo's electric supercharger targeted for 2015-16 production
 

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I'm surprised nobody is selling 'nitrous kits' that use whippit cans. It'd be about the same class of product that 'electric supercharger' is. There are real electrically driven turbo or superchargers, but they aren't cheap little units like that. More like this:
Valeo's electric supercharger targeted for 2015-16 production
I would buy any of those things! I've actually considered a little 50 shot for a kick in the pants.

i guess my point is, i cant see spending hard earned money on something that isnt gonna do what it's supposed to do. if you're gonna spend $300 on an intake , why not spend 400 and have it make the MOST power it possible can. same goes for an exhaust. I see AVO mufflers for $700! ARE YOU KIDDING!? I can have an entire stainless header back exhaust made for that! so why not do it?

Maybe i'm just use to doing things different coming from the Evo community. We push everything WAY beyond what its "supposed" to support. anyway. im sure the guys in the video are very successful mechanics making PVC intakes using "high flow" advance auto parts filters. haha
 

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02 Outback H4 auto..."Ruby"
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Two things
1. most bolt on intakes are for show. You have all read to much internet hype and forgot about how OBDII works. the ECU adjusts the mixture and timing of your engine based on the input from the IAT, MAF/MAP and O2 sensor data. The only way to make significant gains is to have your ecu tuned for a different fuel and timing map. Also, It is impossible for a intake /filter to defeat PHYSICS. the amount of air your engine gets is limited to the amount of air the piston will suck in during it's intake stroke. This is limited to how much airflow the throttle body, intake plenum and the intake valve/port will flow. End of story. If you want more horsepower/torque without forced induction, spend your money on a larger throttle body, extrude hone your intake, valve job and more aggressive/longer duration cam. dont forget a reflashed ecu and maybe larger injectors. there, now you have spent 2 grand and your ej25 is making 190 hp.maybe 200 if you have your heads ported and polished.long story short

you need forced induction or a larger displacement motor to make your outback faster

2. that being said, his question was which setup was better, since we know that they wont give the op any horsepower, the answer is " it all depends on what you think looks better, and how do you use your outback? If he goes offroad, the exposed filter would create more maintenance.
.
 
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