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Discussion Starter #1
The Kyoto Accord goes into effect today and I'd like to congratualte all of you down under as you are apparently the only country that is currently ahead of plan on green house gas reduction.

Here in Canada we are unfortunately behind. But at least we're working on it, which is more then canbe said of our American neighbours who didn't sign the treaty and are still building hundreds of coal-fired elctricity generating stations.
 

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sduford said:
The Kyoto Accord goes into effect today and I'd like to congratualte all of you down under as you are apparently the only country that is currently ahead of plan on green house gas reduction.

Here in Canada we are unfortunately behind. But at least we're working on it, which is more then canbe said of our American neighbours who didn't sign the treaty and are still building hundreds of coal-fired elctricity generating stations.

What in tarnation is the Keeyoto Accord? One of them newfangled firin' cars from that there Honder Company?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: Re: Kyoto Accord

Mudge said:



What in tarnation is the Keeyoto Accord? One of them newfangled firin' cars from that there Honder Company?
Are you going over tothe dark side Mudge?

You need to change your Avatar from a tree to a smoke stack :2:
 

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Re: Re: Re: Kyoto Accord

sduford said:
Are you going over to the dark side Mudge?

You need to change your Avatar from a tree to a smoke stack :2:
Or maybe to this:
 

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sduford said:
The Kyoto Accord goes into effect today and I'd like to congratualte all of you down under as you are apparently the only country that is currently ahead of plan on green house gas reduction.

Here in Canada we are unfortunately behind. But at least we're working on it, which is more then canbe said of our American neighbours who didn't sign the treaty and are still building hundreds of coal-fired elctricity generating stations.
When you have a president whose MO is "Why should America fix the environment when God is going to come and fix everything for us?" it's easy to figure out why this happened.

Let us also remember that almost half of America voted for Kerry (although he too matched Bush by hardly mentioning the environment in his campaign)

It's not easy being Green... in America.
 

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Re: Re: Kyoto Accord

Subhuman said:


When you have a president whose MO is "Why should America fix the environment when God is going to come and fix everything for us?" it's easy to figure out why this happened.

Let us also remember that almost half of America voted for Kerry (although he too matched Bush by hardly mentioning the environment in his campaign)

It's not easy being Green... in America.
That last part is certainly true enough.

BUT let's note too that Kerry was in no substantive way an articulate or passionate voice for the environment--the result of a centrist campaign strategy that has now failed the Democrats more then once

I say to **** with the "Republicrats" (fundamentally, they're all in bed together, and they've done a great job deceiving the American public in believing otherwise). There are other alternatives, though you'd never know it what with the "Republicrat" owned media!!

I've said my peace. :soapbox:
 

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BUT let's note too that Kerry was in no substantive way an articulate or passionate voice for the environment--the result of a centrist campaign strategy that has now failed the Democrats more then once
Mudge, I agree completely but my candidate got shot down simply because of his "growl" remember.
 

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Subhuman said:
Mudge, I agree completely but my candidate got shot down simply because of his "growl" remember.
Believe me Subhuman, I understand, and that treatment of him (by both the media and the professional politicos) only further alienated me from the mainstream.

As you can see, Sly, the only way I can deal with America's failure (on the part of the leadership, the media, and, yes, the people--most of whom drive SUVs and are perfectly willing to let someone else's kid be killed to protect their oil supply) to even acknowledge Kyoto as worthy of discussion is to lapse into sarcasm.

Sorry; I thought I got off the soapbox.
 

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sduford said:
The Kyoto Accord goes into effect today and I'd like to congratualte all of you down under as you are apparently the only country that is currently ahead of plan on green house gas reduction.

Here in Canada we are unfortunately behind. But at least we're working on it, which is more then canbe said of our American neighbours who didn't sign the treaty and are still building hundreds of coal-fired elctricity generating stations.
Are you talking New Zealand or Australia?? Australia hasn't even signed the Kyoto Accord due to the special friendship our PM has with Dubya. I do think though, as a scientist that the Kyoto protocol is flawed.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well, I made the mistake of listening to the news, where they said Australia was ahead of ti's plan, maybe they didn't sign Kyoto but have a plan nonetheless.

I agree that Kyoto is badly flawed, but it is a baby step in the right direction.

I'm actually angry at the idea of selling and buying green house credits, the whole concept is brain dead. And I'm angry at our government's use of our huge forests (carbon sink) and budget surplus to buy credits. I find that very offensive!
 

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Yeah you must've heard something like this where our Govt is crowing about exceeding the Kyoto requirement even though we didn't sign it.

Personally I'm very skeptical about global warming, there are natural cycles which take 1000's of years where the temperature rises and falls, who can prove that we're not just in a natural warming cycle? As for CO2, the Bottanist David Bellamy said human generated non-natural emissions only account for 3% of total CO2, maybe we better stop drinking milk and eating beef...
 

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I don't think there is any doubt about global warning, and one visit to the Canadian Arctic would convince you.

Yes there are natural up/down cycles, but never before in history has the average temperature gone up so fast in such a short period of time.

The overwhelming majority of the scientific community agrees about glowbal warming, they only disagree on the seriousness of it and of its consequences.

Those who deny global warning are few and most likely have a hidden agenda. The few we've heard about here pretty much all have ties to the oil industry and/or the conservatives (what an oxymoron, conserve what exactly?)
 

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Most admit the Accord is flawed--but frankly less flawed than warranting Australia's and America's sheer unwillingness to even pay token attention to it. As for the science--and I am no scientist--I would be about as surprised to discover that we are doing something ill to our environment with these emissions (whether greenhouse or not) as I was surprised be told that cigarette smoking is hazardous to human health.

No duh! :32:
 

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Mudge said:
Most admit the Accord is flawed--but frankly less flawed than warranting Australia's and America's sheer unwillingness to even pay token attention to it. As for the science--and I am no scientist--I would be about as surprised to discover that we are doing something ill to our environment with these emissions (whether greenhouse or not) as I was surprised be told that cigarette smoking is hazardous to human health.

No duh! :32:
Darn Mudge, if you ever want want to become a libertarian tree-hugging Canadian just let me know and I'll carve off a piece of my land for you! :D
 

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sduford said:
The Kyoto Accord goes into effect today ... Here in Canada we are unfortunately behind. But at least we're working on it, which is more then canbe said of our American neighbours who didn't sign the treaty and are still building hundreds of coal-fired elctricity generating stations.
That's hypocracy isn't it - The world's police force one day (self appointed) and then don't want to know about the world environment the next day - comes from having a "Hillbilly President" I guess. :32:

Having said that, I also disagree with New Zealand being a party to the agreeement. We are too small to make any (meaningful) impact and our economy and producers will wear the brunt of it and be forced to be less competitive than those in (America for example). We are too small to be idealistic - as we found out when we were one of the first economies in the world to adopt Free Market policies, it hurt us badly for a long time.

Our problem comes from us having a "School Maam" Prime Minister (who would like to be a President I am sure) who caters to the liberal bleeding heart minorities in our country and has no idea what it means toactually live and work in the real world...

:soapbox:
 

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At the risk of not having an original and brilliant idea... ditto


I love this forum
 

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sduford said:
I don't think there is any doubt about global warning, and one visit to the Canadian Arctic would convince you.

Yes there are natural up/down cycles, but never before in history has the average temperature gone up so fast in such a short period of time.

That's my point, just who can really say what the temperature changes were like when we've only accurately measured temperatures for at most 200 years, a miniscule amount of time in geological time. They can estimate it based on various things, but they have to make a lot of assumptions. :8:

I'm not saying spewing noxious substances into the environment is a good thing, I just think there's a **** of a lot of politics involved. I also don't believe that most scientists accept global warming is caused by humans, I read there is a petition signed by 20,000 scientists in the USA saying global warming is just a political beat up.
 
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