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2015 Outback 3.6R
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Discussion Starter #1
The layout for the manual has been released (picture)



Found on subaru.ca

This will be a rare sight for you Americans :D
 

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96 Outback 2.5 AT
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427 Posts
Us Americans would have the choice between the CVT and manual too if we didn't have the CAFE standards to deal with.
 

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'18 Outback 3.6 Limited (Magnetite Grey)
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58 Posts
Ruso turisto...

Dealer here has about 30 for Canadian press launch next week... He indicated they would be on sale at the end of the month. Was in a 4 cyl. Limited and drove around the lot and quite impressed with the interior...
 

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2020 Outback L 2.5 greenie / tan (formerly 2014 Outback 2.5i P 6MT)
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186 Posts
Us Americans would have the choice between the CVT and manual too if we didn't have the CAFE standards to deal with.
It can't be due to CAFE because people on here are sure that the % of Outbacks sold in the USA with MTs is minute. So a minute % times the small difference in MPG = no significant impact on CAFE.

It can't be profitability or supply-chain issues, because they're being built in Indiana.

So, what is the reason?
 

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96 Outback 2.5 AT
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427 Posts
It can't be due to CAFE because people on here are sure that the % of Outbacks sold in the USA with MTs is minute. So a minute % times the small difference in MPG = no significant impact on CAFE.

It can't be profitability or supply-chain issues, because they're being built in Indiana.

So, what is the reason?
That was my guess on why the manual will not be sold in America. It is crazy though that Subaru builds the manuals in this country but doesn't sell them here. We can only wish that will change in for the 2016 Outback.
 

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2013 Outback - 3.6R Limited, EyeSight/Nav/MoonRoof/Kitchen Sink.
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683 Posts
It is crazy though that Subaru builds the manuals in this country but doesn't sell them here. We can only wish that will change in for the 2016 Outback.
BMW builds all kinds of crazy powerful Diesels in Greer, SC. But can an American buy one? Nope. They all head down to Charleston to hop a boat.

Somehow, I doubt you'll see MT's come back anytime soon.
 

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2020 Outback L 2.5 greenie / tan (formerly 2014 Outback 2.5i P 6MT)
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186 Posts
That was my guess on why the manual will not be sold in America. It is crazy though that Subaru builds the manuals in this country but doesn't sell them here. We can only wish that will change in for the 2016 Outback.
Maybe you're right about CAFE. Reading this from SAE, sounds like engineers are wanting to control everything on the drivetrain. Thanks to the people who vote for more government and more 2000 page 'laws'.

http://www.sae.org/misc/pdfs/meeting_cafe_2025.pdf
 

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Lawn ornament XT
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I can't see how it isn't CAFE.

Manual transmissions present a few unique problems. Sudden throttle closures (such as when shifting) are a problem for tailpipe emissions. Manufacturers have been working around that one since the late 1960s with all kinds of gizmos to slow the rate of throttle closure.

I have no doubt that Subaru (or any other builder) could produce a car with a manual transmission today which would still help them stay on track with CAFE. The problem is that it would have to have an unreasonably tiny engine, so that even when driven poorly the numbers worked out. Not even the most die-hard gear rower would tolerate that, let alone spend money on it.

Automatic transmissions haven't stood still either. Now even 6 and 7 speed epicyclics are seen as low-tech, with many new gearboxes offering between 8-∞ ratios. I know I have fun with 4 and 5 speed manuals, but if that workload doubled or tripled, it starts looking like actual work just to get around.

I guess I am a little surprised that there hasn't been more work to offer more satisfying manual control over automatics. Paddles are kind of cool, but it doesn't solve the unemployment problem for left feet.

Maybe manuals can make a comeback in all-electric cars. Sure, there isn't any need to shift them- but there also isn't nearly as much of a penalty for getting that level of fun and control.
 

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It can't be due to CAFE because people on here are sure that the % of Outbacks sold in the USA with MTs is minute. So a minute % times the small difference in MPG = no significant impact on CAFE.

It can't be profitability or supply-chain issues, because they're being built in Indiana.

So, what is the reason?
I think you answered your own question. It's a minute % of sales, therefore not worth the time to produce.
 

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2020 Outback L 2.5 greenie / tan (formerly 2014 Outback 2.5i P 6MT)
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I think you answered your own question. It's a minute % of sales, therefore not worth the time to produce.
Re-read this thread. 2015 Outbacks with MTs are being produced for Subaru Canada - an even smaller market. And they're being built in Indiana. That's what I mean by "it can't be a supply chain or profitability issue". Here are the pictures on the subaru.ca web site (last 2 pictures on the page):

2015 Subaru Outback - Subaru Canada
 

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2020 Outback L 2.5 greenie / tan (formerly 2014 Outback 2.5i P 6MT)
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I can't see how it isn't CAFE.

Manual transmissions present a few unique problems. Sudden throttle closures (such as when shifting) are a problem for tailpipe emissions. Manufacturers have been working around that one since the late 1960s with all kinds of gizmos to slow the rate of throttle closure.

I have no doubt that Subaru (or any other builder) could produce a car with a manual transmission today which would still help them stay on track with CAFE. The problem is that it would have to have an unreasonably tiny engine, so that even when driven poorly the numbers worked out. Not even the most die-hard gear rower would tolerate that, let alone spend money on it.

Automatic transmissions haven't stood still either. Now even 6 and 7 speed epicyclics are seen as low-tech, with many new gearboxes offering between 8-∞ ratios. I know I have fun with 4 and 5 speed manuals, but if that workload doubled or tripled, it starts looking like actual work just to get around.

I guess I am a little surprised that there hasn't been more work to offer more satisfying manual control over automatics. Paddles are kind of cool, but it doesn't solve the unemployment problem for left feet.

Maybe manuals can make a comeback in all-electric cars. Sure, there isn't any need to shift them- but there also isn't nearly as much of a penalty for getting that level of fun and control.
Interesting post, thanks. Right now the mpg difference isn't large (especially when weighted by the % of MTs bought), but it looks like in a few years many things such as idle-stop-start will need to be done to eek out a few more mpg or to get CAFE "credits". Maybe buried in those 2000 pages is a "credit" that discourages production of MTs today.
 

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Re-read this thread. 2015 Outbacks with MTs are being produced for Subaru Canada - an even smaller market. And they're being built in Indiana. That's what I mean by "it can't be a supply chain or profitability issue". Here are the pictures on the subaru.ca web site (last 2 pictures on the page):

2015 Subaru Outback - Subaru Canada
What % of Canadian sales are they though? While Canada may be a smaller market their share of MT may be higher.
 

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1987 GL, 1995 Legacy Wagon, 2004 Outback, 2015 Outback
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I can't see how it isn't CAFE.
If it was due to CAFE, why are they offering it in their best selling car, the Forester, as well as all the other cars they sell (except the the outback's twin the Legacy, and also the Tribeca)?

Remember, the CA in CAFE is "corporate average". They'd have more success in making Forester CVT-only.
 

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If it was due to CAFE, why are they offering it in their best selling car, the Forester, as well as all the other cars they sell (except the the outback's twin the Legacy, and also the Tribeca)?

Remember, the CA in CAFE is "corporate average". They'd have more success in making Forester CVT-only.
All I can think is that the smaller footprint of the Forester plays into the math. CAFE math seems to place a lot of emphasis on the size of the car as determined by wheelbase x track width.

Another take: if the forester is the best-seller, wouldn't it serve them best to preserve the option on that model, even at the cost of deleting it from another car?
 

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It can't be due to CAFE because people on here are sure that the % of Outbacks sold in the USA with MTs is minute. So a minute % times the small difference in MPG = no significant impact on CAFE.

It can't be profitability or supply-chain issues, because they're being built in Indiana.

So, what is the reason?
Simple us American's need to be able to text and drive the manual poses an issue with that.

The answer is that they do not sell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So Subaru is smart and simply doesn't offer what doesn't sell
 

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Interesting post, thanks. Right now the mpg difference isn't large (especially when weighted by the % of MTs bought), but it looks like in a few years many things such as idle-stop-start will need to be done to eek out a few more mpg or to get CAFE "credits". Maybe buried in those 2000 pages is a "credit" that discourages production of MTs today.
Frankly, I'm amazed that we don't have idle-stop-start on everything already.

I first experienced it in a rented VW in Germany about 3 years ago, and thought it was a fantastic system. I don't expect traffic congestion to improve unless the economy gets worse, so it looks like a great way to save a lot of fuel.

I do realize that everyone needs time to switch over to electric accessories. I'm sure you can't suddenly order up millions of electric water pumps, power steering pumps & air conditioner compressors at the drop of a hat, but by now I really would have expected to see more cars with that feature.
 
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