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Prior to full synthetic engine oils there were lots of these products after engine oils went to full synthetic they were put out of business.
 

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No need for all that, follow the owners manual.

If you are looking to oil to keep your car lasting longer you are looking in the wrong place. Following your owners manual will be all you need.

You will encounter all sorts of other issues before you hit lubrication limits. In other words - are you really expecting to own the car for 500,000 miles where oil technicalities *might* come into play? Subaru short blocks (the parts affected by lubrication/oil) easily make 300,000 miles if properly maintained, follow the owners manual.

Bushings, gaskets, seals, transmissions, suspension, brakes, valve adjustments, timing pulleys, water pumps, alternators, starters, wheel bearings, center carrier bearings, and more...will fail before you have any issues caused by oil. You'll have more than enough maintenance issues to keep you busy before you have wear induced issues due to oil choices. And you'll be getting rid of the car due to some of those issues before oil induced issues ever hit the radar screen.
 

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Sailing friend had slick 50 used in their huge diesel generator on the ship he ran. Those generates run 24/7 for years - he found the additive added some life to the generator engine and increased the numbers of hours he could run them before tear down and rebuild.

Your Subaru will never EVER see that kind of use unless its a TAXI run by several drivers and never sits parked beyond the time it takes to grab a bite to eat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hey grossgary,
The parts you've mentioned are expendable and expected to be replaced over a normal lifespan of a vehicle. I do all these replacements and fixes by myself. However, major engine problem can proclaim death to the whole car. I owned my previous car for 14 years and only its engine failure forced me to buy Outback. Yea, I would love to drive my new car for 500,000 miles to offset its $30K+ price tag, or at least I should keep it for the next 15 years to accumulate enough cash to buy a new car outright.
 

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HB - engine failure due to oiltype used is very rare assuming the oil was changed at the proper intervals. Even more so with the subaru engines which are more resistant to flex due to the compact size and block design. Additives are snake oil with todays engines. Good quality oil will keep engines running long after everything around them has fallen off or rusted away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Your Subaru will never EVER see that kind of use unless its a TAXI run by several drivers and never sits parked beyond the time it takes to grab a bite to eat.
Actually, 24x7 ran engines experience less wear and tear than often but intermittently ran engines. It was concluded in a research on NY taxi cab engine longevity. I'm mostly concerned with cold starts of the engine when its parts have no sufficient lubrication on them. This is the condition when most wear and tear occurs. I was thinking, if I add one of mentioned additives e.g. Xado, it may offset or negate effects of cold starts.
 

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You asked and got your answer and no engines that run 24/7 for years do not experience less wear than engines that do not run 24/7 for years and years. Yes cold starts cause wear the oils used in todays engines do just fine providing the needed protection. But hey if you have money burning holes in your pockets by all means go for it. I happen to like my money so I don't spend it on silly stuff like this.
 

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An engine in good condition will not last longer because of oil additives beyond what comes compounded in the oil. There are a few situations where specific problems can possibly be dealt with by using specific additives......But shooting in the dark, trying to treat a problem before it occurs is not feasible. It would be akin to taking insulin shots to avoid diabetes. It can cause more trouble than it avoids.
 

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2011 Outback 2.5i Premium, CVT, Steel Silver, all-weather package. Upgrades: Tweeter kit, BlueConnect, media hub, remote start, Curt 2" receiver hitch.
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If you want to put your money somewhere, buy better motor oil. We have fairly lax oil guidelines in this country. Most of what is sold as "synthetic" oil in the US cannot be labeled as such in Europe. Most "synthetic" oil here is made from mineral oil stock. These are called class III oils. Better class IV oils are made from polyalphaolefin stock. Even better are the class V oils made from polyol ester or certain other base stocks.

I use RedLine oil, which is one of the few that is made from a class V base stock.

Yes, other oils can run an engine for hundreds of thousands of miles. However, there are some advantages to running a class IV or V synthetic. Viscosity is more stable over the lifespan of the oil, evaporative loss is lower, better shears stability, better resistance to oxidation and thermal breakdown, etc. Not only does this mean the oil can be better for your engine, but you can also run longer oil change intervals.
 

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I strongly urge anyone wishing to become better informed about motor oil to visit Bob Is The Oil Guy (BITOG). This site contains not only exhaustive discussions on every possible automotive lubrication product, but also extensive reference material. I recommend reading Motor Oil University, where I had some basic misconceptions of my own cleared up. There are people on this site who work in the industry as tribologists (lubrication chemists) and understand what motor oil is and what it does in an engine better than you and I ever will.
 

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***If you own a turbo then you need to be running synthetic due to some very specific issues. Google can answer all your questions about that. I'm assuming you don't have one though.

I strongly urge anyone wishing to become better informed about motor oil to visit Bob Is The Oil Guy (BITOG). This site contains not only exhaustive discussions on every possible automotive lubrication product, but also extensive reference material. I recommend reading Motor Oil University, where I had some basic misconceptions of my own cleared up. There are people on this site who work in the industry as tribologists (lubrication chemists) and understand what motor oil is and what it does in an engine better than you and I ever will.
+1. everyone is right because it doesn't matter. to that end - do whatever you want, you will be right because we're all going to be right. you can celebrate your high mileage subaru with additives, i will celebrate my high mileage subaru's without additives. if you want quantitative info do what he said, excellent suggestion.

i see your point about individual parts/maintenance. my point though isn't about individual parts but cumulative effects - that you will hit a limit (these things are not linear mathematically speaking - it will be increasing rates of maintenance/failures) where reliability or cost become an annoyance and detract you from keeping the car.

you already admitted to one - engine problems. rebuilding an engine is not that big of a deal and is typical maintenance on high mileage vehicles. if you can do all other maintenance - you can rebuild an engine. it's just expendable wear items, three parts - main bearings, rod bearings, and piston rings. based on your logic an engine rebuild is standard maintenance, as it is in all high mileage, heavy usage industries world wide. but the point is - at some point the reliability, cost, time...some amount of these things will as a whole (not individually) lead you to move on to another vehicle before oil comes into play.

and you've already given the facts that you move on due to engine failure, well there are other scenarios where you will move on as well.

at high mileage you're more likely to have transmission problems first (and others - that's the first obvious one that comes to mind), not engine problems. if you're not up to rebuilding or replacing an engine you most definitely will not be doing so with a transmission. expecting more than 300,000 miles out of a trans is almost comical...they can do it but it's nowhere near a 100% success rate. i caution against leaning on arm chair oil banter and hyped up marketing tactics towards oil.

i do all my own maintenance too and expect 300,000+ miles out of them (two in my fleet are at 200,000 now with no issues), i rebuild them, and have done custom subaru engine swaps, engine tear downs, etc. i've looked at high mileage bearing surfaces and blocks, have a bunch in my garage, etc.

you mentioned 15 years...how many miles a year do you drive? at 20,000 that's only 300,000 miles, that's low on the high mileage scale.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
you already admitted to one - engine problems. rebuilding an engine is not that big of a deal and is typical maintenance on high mileage vehicles. if you can do all other maintenance - you can rebuild an engine. it's just expendable wear items, three parts - main bearings, rod bearings, and piston rings. based on your logic an engine rebuild is standard maintenance, as it is in all high mileage, heavy usage industries world wide. but the point is - at some point the reliability, cost, time...some amount of these things will as a whole (not individually) lead you to move on to another vehicle before oil comes into play.
I hope, that you just over simplified the task of rebuilding the engine.
I did engine rebuilds as well but now I just don't have proper metal working machinery with the required precision to do it. It requires far more than just changing a few bearings and piston rings. Don't you have to press out and rebore ovalized cylinder inserts on the engine lathe before honing and installing pistons with the new piston rings? Of course you can buy brand new inserts but it will cost you money. Don't you have to check profiles of valve inserts, press them out and change or re-mill them in place if necessary? What about worn out profiles of crankshaft necks and camshaft lobes? If they too ovalized you have braze on hard steel on these surfaces and then machine them to the factory specs or replace these parts entirely which will cost you more money. So, my main point is that it's easier to prolong the lifespan of an engine rather then rebuilding it as a part of "standard maintenance".
 

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Has any one used one of these or other engine oil additives which really worked as advertised?
The keyword there is "advertised". A product promoted by the manufacturer is automatically assumed to be biased in the favor of the product.
It's snake-oil and tomfoolery to believe claims boasting a product without unbiased scientific analysis.
 

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Has any one used one of these or other engine oil additives which really worked as advertised?
How would a car owner know whether an additive had any effect -- good or bad?

...a fool and her money are soon courted,

Looby
 

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...back in the day...way back...I used slick50 on my cars...old beetles, a jetta and civic. But like everyone has said, with the advent of sythetics...there is no need for that stuff any more. I still have an old bottle of slick50 in my garage...should put it up on ebay just for the fun of it...lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The keyword there is "advertised". A product promoted by the manufacturer is automatically assumed to be biased in the favor of the product.
It's snake-oil and tomfoolery to believe claims boasting a product without unbiased scientific analysis.
All manufacturers "advertise" their products, shall we collectively consider all of them as snake oil peddlers? The question here is whether any independent scientific studies either confirmed or disproved "advertised" properties of particular engine oil additives.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
How would a car owner know whether an additive had any effect -- good or bad?

...a fool and her money are soon courted,

Looby
That is what independent product studies are for, given that they were not paid for by the manufacturer of the same product.
 

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So, my main point is that it's easier to prolong the lifespan of an engine rather then rebuilding it as a part of "standard maintenance".
we're miscommunicating. the point isn't about engine rebuilding - it's that you're not likely to own this car long enough for oil choices to matter. maintaining a 300,000 mile car is an exercise in effort and cost, it's not easy at high mileages...the amount of work increases over time.

how many 300,000+ mile vehicles have you owned?

your response to rebuilding an engine for example...yes it is labor intensive...but so is owning a 300,000 mile car. if you can say "i'll maintain my 350,000 mile car because i can turn a wrench"...then you can also say you can rebuild an engine. in the same way i lessened the effort and made it sound simple - you're doing the same about what it takes to own a car for many hundreds of thousands of miles. and rebuilding a Subaru engine is not that bad, it's done all the time or just replace the short block, not a big deal. you could have fixed your last vehicle for a couple thousand dollars instead of buy new for 20k - 30k...but you chose not too because it's more than just the engine that matters...and that will be the case as this car ages too.

how many 300,000 mile vehicles have you owned?

you're going to have to rebuild or replace the transmission before engine oil becomes an issue. most transmissions do not last 300,000 miles...you'll never have oil induced issues before then.

my point isn't about engine rebuilding or transmissions - but about keeping Subarus for high enough mileage where oil choices actually matter.

i'm actually trying to help. there's no quantitative information about those products, there are too many dynamics at play to verify this stuff. testing in a lab doesn't prove anything and folks drive high mileage with and without additives and folks have engine failures with and without additives. what you're looking for you're not going to find. if you think the answer is in a bottle - just go buy it and put it in there.
 
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