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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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276 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
For those that have seen several of my previous posts I need to take my engine out again. I had initially taking the engine out to fix an oil leak the oil it was eventually found to be a head gasket after one of the head bolts pulled the threads out of the block. The loose bolt allowed oil to leak.

Here is a video w the sound

https://youtu.be/VEz0h5MxPWc


I fixed all issues and got it back together. Timing belt lined up fine and I spun the engine. No issues with the engine turning.

Only issue getting engine in was the last inch when mating it to the transmission. Couldn't get it to push together. I was able to use the bolts to draw the engine and transmission together with no issues. Came together easy.

Fast fwd to today.

Everything together. Crank engine... It starts but with a HORRIBLE NOISE.

If the timing was off I don't believe it would have started as easily and I would have bent the valves. I hooked my breaker bar to the crank pulley and manually turn the engine. There was no resistance however there was a horrible crunching or grinding noise towards the rear. That is telling me something inside the transmission bell housing went bad. I installed a new release bearing and pilot bearing. The clutch on the car was practically brand-new so it was reused. I torqued all the bolts down as required in the manual. I started to take everything off this evening but just quit for the night. Does anybody have any ideas what I'm going to find when I separate the engine tomorrow? Any help would be appreciated.

By the way, when I installed the engine I had the transmission lifted a couple of inches to assist in the process. Everything lined up fine like I mentioned. The only issue was I was not able to get the engine to push back all the way onto the transmission. I did however get the engine far enough back that the transmission shaft engaged the splines on the clutch disc.

On a strange note, I noticed while hand cranking my engine the EGR valve made fast clicking sounds as I turned the crankshaft. Is this normal? I disconnected the EGR electrical connector and the sound stopped. Does anybody know if this is normal?
 

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06 Outback 2.5i, 05 Outback Limited
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856 Posts
Can't answer the EGR question, but it sounds like the pilot bearing might not have been aligned right and you may have crushed it when forcing the motor and trans together using the bolts. It should have slid together nicely almost all the way together -- less than 1/2" when they're mated but not bolted together.

Stupid question, but did you use a clutch alignment tool when installing the clutch before tightening the pressure plate down?
 

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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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276 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yes, I used a clutch alignment tool. I places a ever so slight touch of oil to the tip of tranny and inside of pilot bearing to ease the connection.

**** **** ****
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
2002 Pair: 3.0 VDC Wag & 2.5 Limited Sedan
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26,195 Posts
everything lined up "just right"

engine, trans, starter? something possibly hung up in the mounts?

trans seal?
 

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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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276 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Starter went on after the engine was bolted up.

Engine and tranny went in good initially. I just could not get the engine to slide back. I wiggled the crankpully back and forth which helped get the transmission splines to mesh with the clutch disc.

I knew the splines were aligned because I could barely seen the transmission input shaft move when I nudged the crankpully. Once that happened I wiggled and moved the engine up, down, left and right to get the engine to slide back to the tranny. I got it about 1" apart and it would not move further. I next threaded the mounting bolts and snugged them all down incrementally until the surfaces met. There was zero resistance to suggest I was pinching something or something was not aligned. It went together like the numerous other clutches I did before.

Did I miss something?

I attached photos of the new release bearing, the clutch with the alignment tool still in place one showing the timing marks aligned.
 

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2005 OBXT Ltd Obsidian Black 5MT
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So... I ran into a similar issue when I went to install the new engine in my car with it not wanting to push together with the transmission. Let me guess: you're using a Harbor Freight 1 ton engine lift and you didn't remove your front bumper.

I could not get the engine to pull together with the transmission with the bumper in place. The engine lift just won't reach and you're fighting yourself. But once I pulled the entire bumper and support, the engine slid right on to the transmission with no problem.

But your noise... it very well might be your pilot bearing being off when you forced the engine together with the transmission. Or the clutch fork wasn't fully seated on the pivot bearing and locked.
 

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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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Discussion Starter #8
But once I pulled the entire bumper and support, the engine slid right on to the transmission with .
You are correct about the harbor freight engine lift.

By "remove bumper" are you talking about the bumper cover or the entire bumper? Not what I wanted to do but I can get it done. I'm pulling it, gonna see the grinding noise. The noise, seriously sound nasty. I'll have it out by 1pm. Stay posted.

The clutch fork seems fine. I got a new fork spring and it engaged solidly
 

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2005 OBXT Limited, VF37, STI intake, 5MT
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1,553 Posts
If there was less than 3/16 in. or so between the block and transmission, then it's usually ok to draw the two together with bolts (this is usually the corrosion on the locating studs that prevents a 100% "slide together" mating). But ideally, you can mate the two parts flush without drawing together.

However, it is VERY easy to push the pilot bearing out of the flywheel if the input nose is not 100% aligned. The pilot bearing does not have a "step" to rest against and can be pushed through.

Luckily, a new pilot bearing is cheap and usually no damage is done to the trans or input shaft, but yes: the engine does need to come back out.

I also recommend using a light coating of axle/bearing grease on the nose rather than oil. It tends to stay around longer during install.
 

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06 OB Plain Jane
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I also recommend using a light coating of axle/bearing grease on the nose rather than oil. It tends to stay around longer during install.
I agree with everything else said as well, but this stands out most to me. Definitely grease vice oil. Can't wait to see what it was.
 
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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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Discussion Starter #11
Engine is coming out very soon. I will post once it is out. I should clarify a previous statement. I used lithium grease on the splines and other surfaces inside the bellhousing. I was very minimal in the usage. Just enough to lightly coat. I am thinking you are correct about the pilot bushing being pushed. The alignment studs we're not engaged when I started to draw the engine and transmission together. I cleaned and removed the corrosion from the studs prior and I gave them a little bit of Grease also. I am thinking now about removing the front bumper so the engine lift can get closer to the transmission.
 

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2005 OBXT Ltd Obsidian Black 5MT
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You are correct about the harbor freight engine lift.

By "remove bumper" are you talking about the bumper cover or the entire bumper? Not what I wanted to do but I can get it done. I'm pulling it, gonna see the grinding noise. The noise, seriously sound nasty. I'll have it out by 1pm. Stay posted.

The clutch fork seems fine. I got a new fork spring and it engaged solidly
The front bumper is fairly easy to remove, especially compared to pulling an engine. The plastic skin has a couple of bolts and clips by the grill and then there's a few clips on the bottom. Then the skin slides off the support. The support is held on by 8 bolts. 4 on each side. It holds itself in place when you remove the bolts which is nice. Lift up and out to get it to pop off.

This will give you the 3 or 4 extra inches that you need. I fought with mine for 2 days before I decided to remove the bumper and wish I had to begin with. The engine should just slide right up and be even all the way around to the transmission. Drawing it together with bolts are fine, but make sure it's not at an angle when you do.

That noise doesn't sound fun. I'm headed out for Thanksgiving in an bit so might not be available to help.
 

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06 Outback 2.5i, 05 Outback Limited
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I'm going to keep an eye on this throughout the day, I'm really curious what you're going to find when you pull the motor.
 

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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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276 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Oh MY FKIN GOD. This was the dumbest thing ever.

The lower cover got bent up somehow and was causing the sound. Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. Pilot bearing seems intact. I was crushed thinking this was something worse. I even ordered a new clutch kit w single mass flywheel. I'm gonna leave it out and do the whole clutch. I won't need it until next week anyways. Grrrrrr
 

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2009 OB 2.5i 4EAT
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Oh MY FKIN GOD. This was the dumbest thing ever.

The lower cover got bent up somehow and was causing the sound. Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. Pilot bearing seems intact. I was crushed thinking this was something worse. I even ordered a new clutch kit w single mass flywheel. I'm gonna leave it out and do the whole clutch. I won't need it until next week anyways. Grrrrrr
Well atleast it wasn't too hard to figure out!...

Did it cause any damage? How were you able to mate the motor to the transmission with that inbetween- do they not seal up against each other? (I'm mechanically a noob, Iim curious)
 

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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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Discussion Starter #17
Did it cause any damage? How were you able to mate the motor to the transmission with that inbetween- do they not seal up against each other? (I'm mechanically a noob, Iim curious)
I'm not sure what happened. It got crushed after swinging engine into the car. Maybe when I dropped the engine down that cover plate hit the top of the tranny.
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
2002 Pair: 3.0 VDC Wag & 2.5 Limited Sedan
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I'm not sure what happened. It got crushed after swinging engine into the car. Maybe when I dropped the engine down that cover plate hit the top of the tranny.
mechanics I know only hoist engines/ transmissions with extra hands and eyes to avoid costly problems.
(even if 95% of the job is done with just one person.)

I wonder if anyone has taped on a lump of foam where yours got dented.
 

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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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Discussion Starter #19
I have no idea about a piece of foam. I am just going to take it off and not put a new one on. There doesn't seem to be any legitimate need to have it on there. That part of the engine and transmission is covered by the crossmember anyways. I don't ever intend to have my hands that high up inside the engine bay while it is running to risk losing a finger.
 

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2006 OutBean, 2005 LGTW
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Why not bend it back and leave it installed? Surely the engineers at Subaru added it for a purpose..
 
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