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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good afternoon everyone.

I survived the winter with the new HG's, new clutch (I am suffering Chatter now but only after I do alot of shifting in the city) and new suspension.

BEFORE the HG install I had a horrible oil leak. NOW the engine is dry as a bone however I am now going thru a quart every 500 miles. Engine has 197K on it now. I am also having to replace coolant, maybe 2 cups worth, every 500-700 miles. This is all happening WITHOUT any noticeable smoke from the tailpipe. Nothing at all, no blue smoke, white smoke or black.

I installed turbo HG's and they went on without any issues.

Any ideas??
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
2002 3.0 VDC Wag + 2018 2.5 Leg Ltd
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pcv changed with a oem?

heads machined at time of head gasket job?. torque specs triple checked on the head bolts.?

any overheating?

did you change the water pump? did you change the timing belt kit? (if so with what?)

are you using a new OEM rad cap? are you using a OEM thermostat. (there is no subs on either of those for your car).


you could do a cooling system pressure test. (should hold around 16psi. )

you could do a blackstone oil analysis looking for coolant. (if its not apparent on the dipstick?)
 
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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
pcv changed with a oem?

heads machined at time of head gasket job?. torque specs triple checked on the head bolts.?

any overheating?

did you change the water pump? did you change the timing belt kit? (if so with what?)

are you using a new OEM rad cap? are you using a OEM thermostat. (there is no subs on either of those for your car).


you could do a cooling system pressure test. (should hold around 16psi. )

you could do a blackstone oil analysis looking for coolant. (if its not apparent on the dipstick?)
I did not replace the PVC valve however the PVC valve hose was replaced. When I completed that I did clean the PVC and there was no resistance within the valve. It seemed fine.

I did not machine the heads. That had been completed about 10000 miles before I replace the head gaskets. The previous owner had the heads rebuilt prior to me purchasing the vehicle. I saw the receipt from the Machine Shop. The heads were torqued to spec. I did have to replace the threads for one of the head bolt holes. One of my former posts details that procedure. That was completed without incident. All of the head bolts torqued down without any issues.

There is zero overheating. I monitor the temperature of the coolant because of the issue. It never gets above 195. I have not pressure-tested the cooling system. The radiator cap has not been replaced however I have no reason to suspect it is malfunctioning. I can, as a matter of diligence, replace the radiator cap. That is not a significant issue. I did replace the radiator and the radiator hoses. The thermostat is not specifically OEM but was a Stant.

At the time I replaced the head gasket I did replace the water pump. It was from one of the better timing belt kits. The timing belt was not replaced. It had been replaced about 15,000 miles ago. I saw the receipt from the man I purchase the car from. I did however have to replace one of the tooth sprockets that is part of the timing belt set. There were no other issues with the timing belt system.

I will try and pressure test the cooling system.

Any ideas or suggestions from this point?
 

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start with a new OEM rad cap, OEM thermostat, and OEM PCV valve. all those things get worn with time, and cause many a little problem that gets big fast. ... also provides base line data if the problems don't go away.


then pressure test. its possible the coolant leak is small and only leaking when you are moving,

pull the spark plugs. look for signs of coolant = white corrosion. (your cat converters maybe still good enough to burn up all of it for no smell).

then

I would replace the whole timing belt kit with OEM or Aisin.
...Gates and Beck quality has slipped since they switched to chinese. (even on their N) stuff.

there is a guy on the classified here now with a Aisin kit for a EJ253. (in the past 2 days)
despite it being good japanese stuff, his mechanic wants to use OEM on a head gasket job..
 

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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
start with a new OEM rad cap, OEM thermostat, and OEM PCV valve. all those things get worn with time, and cause many a little problem that gets big fast. ... also provides base line data if the problems don't go away.


then pressure test. its possible the coolant leak is small and only leaking when you are moving,

pull the spark plugs. look for signs of coolant = white corrosion. (your cat converters maybe still good enough to burn up all of it for no smell).

then

I would replace the whole timing belt kit with OEM or Aisin.
...Gates and Beck quality has slipped since they switched to chinese. (even on their N) stuff.

there is a guy on the classified here now with a Aisin kit for a EJ253. (in the past 2 days)
despite it being good japanese stuff, his mechanic wants to use OEM on a head gasket job..
The timing belt on the vehicle now is a Gates brand. I understand that some of their components are lesser quality. That is why I had to replace one of the tooth sprockets with a Subaru part. The other components appear to be healthy. The water pump that I put on it was from that Gates kit. It was brand new when I put it on. The Belt itself was in excellent condition. I am not sure what the condition of the timing belt has to do with burning oil.

I will go ahead and replace the radiator cap and I will look into replacing the PCV valve too. I will pull one of the spark plugs and check for any sign of contamination or coolant being burned.
 

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Master Caster
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What Oil, what weight are you running? Just curious, Cherry was eating oil pretty good. I replaced the PCV even tho it still seemed to be operating. However, After 3 oil changes mt consumption has completely stabilized. And that's in a turbo.

My 1st oil change was Rotella 5w40 T6 and 1 qt of Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer.

The second (2) changes have been Liquid Moly 5w-40, 1 bottle of Liquid Moly Engine treatment, and 1 qt of HyperLube oil stabilizer. Cherry is at 3000 miles on this cycle and her dipstick loss has been nearly zero. I have a small leak as well, about a good golfball size spot after every shut down.

I was using 1 qt per 800-1000 miles before.

My next oil change will be Liquid Moly oil and the 1 qt of hyperlube. No LM engine treatment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What Oil, what weight are you running? Just curious, Cherry was eating oil pretty good. I replaced the PCV even tho it still seemed to be operating. However, After 3 oil changes mt consumption has completely stabilized. And that's in a turbo.

My 1st oil change was Rotella 5w40 T6 and 1 qt of Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer.

The second (2) changes have been Liquid Moly 5w-40, 1 bottle of Liquid Moly Engine treatment, and 1 qt of HyperLube oil stabilizer. Cherry is at 3000 miles on this cycle and her dipstick loss has been nearly zero. I have a small leak as well, about a good golfball size spot after every shut down.

I was using 1 qt per 800-1000 miles before.

My next oil change will be Liquid Moly oil and the 1 qt of hyperlube. No LM engine treatment.
So, PCV Valve was your issue?? Did you use OEM or aftermarket valve?
 

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Master Caster
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So, PCV Valve was your issue?? Did you use OEM or aftermarket valve?
I bough the whole hose assembly from dealer. It's very difficult to replace just the valve on a turbo. The assembly usually breaks.

I don't know that the PCV was my issue. In fact, I suspect that it may not have been. The original T6 formula I tried had slowed the consumption. I changed the PCV at the same time I swapped my oil recipe. I actually think the Liquid Moly Engine treatment tightened things up internally a bit and I think the hyperlube is doing it's job keeping a very good oil stable.
 

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pcv can get worn with time. the ball and spring don't move like they should anymore. so even if you clean it, it does not perform like new.

to me cleaning one is a stop gap measure while waiting to get a new one in hand. and a $5 -12 part to buy.

a couple years back I replaced one in a chevy pickup I came into possession of.
one of the first things I did was to buy new one from A/C delco.
and the one coming out did not even look at all like the new one I bought.

sadly things like those 3 rad caps, thermostats and pcvs, don't appear on the subaru maint. schedule.
although all are wear parts that subaru should have identified with a time in months and miles to swap them out..
(spring steel gets metal fatigue over time).
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
it just worries me because I don't even smell coolant in the engine day at any time. The engine can be warm or cold and I don't smell any coolant. I don't even see any wet spots within the engine bay.
 

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Well I would be concerned too considering that both are now dropping rapidly post HG job, would seem to not be a coincidence. But if not weeping underneath then one would assume internal leak. Which should be easily detectable in the coolant becoming contaminated with oil. Does the overflow tank look clean/good?

FWIW my 126kmile engine burns maybe a quart every 1500 miles but the coolant level is stable. Pretty rare to see an internal leak on this gen..........mine weeped oil, then dripped oil, then puked up a big puddle of coolant under driver side when temps hit 20 below zero and that was years post weep.

200k mile engine burning that much oil is not all that unusual but the dropping coolant is suspect esp if it was stable pre HG job.
 

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As far as I know the Beck and Arnley PCV valve is a fine alternate. Fit fine on my 2009. The old hose didn't survive, however.

(Curious/I dont know engines) Is it possible for coolant to leak into the motor? How would that occur/be detected?
 

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As far as I know the Beck and Arnley PCV valve is a fine alternate. Fit fine on my 2009. The old hose didn't survive, however.

(Curious/I dont know engines) Is it possible for coolant to leak into the motor? How would that occur/be detected?
ruined headgaskets,

loose / mis-torqued head gasket bolts. (such things kind of need to be rechecked a few times after a head gasket job, like once a month looking for any to loosen up just form a odd situation).


and the coolant dumps into the exhaust. the cats can burn up 100% of it, or dump some coolant mist out the exhaust.

or if really bad: pooled coolant in the exhaust before the cat. (sometimes on old beaters it leaks out a loose exhaust flange and drips on the ground).

the ones that really liked to do it: EJ25D that were already long past fixing (like ready for the scrap cast aluminum bin).

I seen someone fix a EJ252 on a 2000 forester once with head gaskets, as it was caught fast though. (edit: guy had to drive around with a bottle of coolant mix as he needed the car for a while before the work was done, had a hold drilled to let the coolant out of the exhaust).
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
As far as I know the Beck and Arnley PCV valve is a fine alternate. Fit fine on my 2009. The old hose didn't survive, however.

(Curious/I dont know engines) Is it possible for coolant to leak into the motor? How would that occur/be detected?
ruined headgaskets,

loose / mis-torqued head gasket bolts. (such things kind of need to be rechecked a few times after a head gasket job, like once a month looking for any to loosen up just form a odd situation).


and the coolant dumps into the exhaust. the cats can burn up 100% of it, or dump some coolant mist out the exhaust.

or if really bad: pool coolant in the exhaust before the cat. (sometimes on old beaters it leaks out a loose exhaust flange and drips on the ground).

the ones that really liked to do it: EJ25D that were already long past fixing (like ready for the scrap cast aluminum bin).

I seen someone fix a EJ252 on a 2000 forester once with head gaskets, as it was caught fast though.
OK, now I'm worried.

Once it gets above 50 degrees here I will take a day to check the torque in the heads. What's the recommended way to do that? Am I to Crack them loose and Re-torque or just get the wrench on that studs and see if they are tightened to at least the recommend torque?

There is no oil in the Coolant.

There is no Coolant in the oil.

I am equally worried about oil burn. Like I said there is no smoke from the tailpipe. The car runs absolutely wonderfully. I will check compression when it gets warmer.

Does anyone have a write up on checking compression?

I got a new PCV valve today and will get it installed this weekend.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Someone explain this please.

I ran the car for a very long time so it was fully warm and all condensation should be out of the system.

I let it idle for 20 minutes and underneath the Y Split at the back the liquid was dripping very freely. I smelled the fluid and it seemed like it was simply water. It seemed clear and there was zero antifreeze smell.

I am going to replace the entire exhaust just as soon as I figure out the issue with the coolant. Would antifreeze that ran into the exhaust loose its scent? The amount of fluid seemed excessive. I also know that water is a by product of normal exhaust but I always thought was only in the warming up stages that you would see it. I also thought that after warm up the remaining water from the exhaust came out as steam (thats why you see cars with visible exhaust in winter).

Anyone clear this up?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If the water is normal, where is my coolant burning off? Does burnt off coolant have a smell? Doesn't it cause colored exhaust? Can the exhaust leak straight into the exhaust (I don't see how this is possible)?
 
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