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2013 OB 3.6R (former)
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Discussion Starter #1

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I simply cannot abide useless people.
2006 2.5i and 2002 3.0 wagons.
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Seems to conflict with earlier auto show information.
 

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85BRAT97SVX03Baja5mtHonda's
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adding a turbo to the harder to work on engine to begin with, is not the approach Subaru will take….turbo requires more maintenance and it is costly maintenance. they won't force it on the boxer 6.
 

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2013 OB 3.6R (former)
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Discussion Starter #4
I agree that a turbo does not make sense on the H6.
 

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'14 3.6R Outback
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News for thought:

The New Subaru Legacy Will Offer Turbo Sport Model, Downsized Six-Cylinder ? News ? Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

"well-placed" sources indicating a revised, smaller but more powerful H6 mid-cycle and a turbo for the Legacy.

Makes perfect sense, as long surmised by many here, if true, that a new H6 would debut for the new 7 pax--and join the OB line, too.
Now wait a minute... your article specifically says:

While we understand the engine will again have three holes per cylinder bank, it’s not yet clear if Subaru will take the opportunity to add direct injection or turbos. Whatever happens, expect the new flat-six to also migrate to the next Outback (which will debut in a couple of months) around the same time frame. It’s also possible that it may make its debut in a new three-row crossover Subaru plans to launch within the next two years.
 

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I has car.
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I think there's a poorly placed comma that most of us missed in that headline. Guessing they mean "Subaru to offer new turbo sport model AND a downsized 6 cylinder model".

Commas: the difference between:
Let's eat grandma.
Let's eat, grandma.
 

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2013 Legacy Lim CVT Car: 2011 OB Prem 6MT Car: 2006 Miata GT 6MT mc: 2003 Honda GL1800A * Reunite Gondwanaland *
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Punctuation saves lives.


 

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2011 Tacoma TRD Sport Double Cab Long Box
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I wouldn't be surprised with a 2.0 Turbo Legacy/Outback at some point, but I doubt they'll ever make a turbo H6 due to CAFE requirements and the fact that the amount of them they'd sell would never justify the expense of putting it into production.

That said, I'd still be all for one myself!
 

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2010 OB 3.6R limited
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IF They TURBO The H6,it will be well over 300 HP. Will The new CVT able to handle the Power? The CUrrent 3.6R 5EAT are also use bu Nissam Titan and that is a 317HP (V8). So, IF(that's a big if), they Turbo the H6, then we may see the 5EAT again. Maybe VTD too!

OK, I doubt that will happen.
 

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I wouldn't be surprised with a 2.0 Turbo Legacy/Outback at some point, but I doubt they'll ever make a turbo H6 due to CAFE requirements and the fact that the amount of them they'd sell would never justify the expense of putting it into production.

That said, I'd still be all for one myself!
especially if the Turbo H6 have more HP than the STI....
 

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2013 OB 3.6R (former)
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Discussion Starter #13
I am curious about Subaru's decision-making. Given the explosion of sales since 2009-10, what made sense for them half a decade ago, simplifying the line-up, is one thing, what maybe makes sense now--offering more choices?--is hopefully another.

But yeah, turbo H6, keep dreaming, maybe you want that with an MT, too;)

A question for those of you who actually know about engines:

What is the reasonable probable output of a new, smaller, say 3.0, H6? And why would engineering a new, say, 3.0 H6 be more beneficial than making more efficient the current H6?
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Mercedes mounts its turbo on the topside, mid engine in its V6 diesel. Plenty of room for a snail shell up top on an H6. And combined with the right compression, a turbo can be made efficient.

I got a bit today that Subaru may be downsizing the H6 back to a redesigned 3.0. It was from outside the US. Think that one over for a bit. Hhmmm?
 

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2013 OB 3.6R (former)
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Discussion Starter #15
Well, that IS interesting. I do not know what the thresholds for tax penalties are, however, beyond the 2.0 (which is key in many countries, as far as I know).

But for the new 7 pax to not repeat the B9 story--especially outside the US--its engine ought to be both somewhat more powerful (this being more of a US-thing) than even the revised H6 that appeared in 2008 and a great deal more efficient than it (especially outside the US)....
 

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I just can't imagine Subaru doing much to the EZ36 beyond tweaks.

It's not a high-volume engine, and I doubt it ever will be. It makes sense for them to sell as many copies of it as possible with the absolute minimum number of changes.

It's already a great size, the output isn't bad, and I'm sure it could get a little better with the tiniest of tweaks.

I predict that the plan is to make that engine the default (and maybe the only) for the new 3-row, and start offering certain Legacies/Outbacks with the 2.0 turbo DIT engine. That would give them lots of flexibility. If the 3-row is a sales hit, they can stop offering the 3.6 in the Outback in order to leave enough for 3-row production. If it turns out to be a dud like the Tribeca, then they can limit availability of the 2.0 in the Legacy and call it a super-special edition or something.

As it is they have quite a few different variations when they only used to have a few. Right now, they ship 2 different 2.0L engines, two 2.5L engines and the 3.6. Isn't that enough for a tiny car company?
 

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2017 Forester XT, 2015 3.6R Ltd (sold)
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What is the reasonable probable output of a new, smaller, say 3.0, H6? And why would engineering a new, say, 3.0 H6 be more beneficial than making more efficient the current H6?
The first question depends on whether the goal is performance or a mainstream engine with good MPG that runs regular grade fuel. My assumption is that Subaru is going for the latter choice. 240 to 270 HP with a reasonable torque output of 210 to 250 lb-ft should be attainable with direct injection and without turbocharging.

A new engine design is an opportunity to take advantage of materials and engineering that didn't exist or weren't readily/cheaply available when the existing engine was developed. Design goals would probably be lighter weight, lower friction, lower emissions, direct injection capability, scalability, parts interchangability, etc. They'd really need to scrap the existing design and start over to do all of this. Which is, I imagine, what they're doing.
 

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I just can't imagine Subaru doing much to the EZ36 beyond tweaks.

It's not a high-volume engine, and I doubt it ever will be. It makes sense for them to sell as many copies of it as possible with the absolute minimum number of changes.

It's already a great size, the output isn't bad, and I'm sure it could get a little better with the tiniest of tweaks.

I predict that the plan is to make that engine the default (and maybe the only) for the new 3-row, and start offering certain Legacies/Outbacks with the 2.0 turbo DIT engine. That would give them lots of flexibility. If the 3-row is a sales hit, they can stop offering the 3.6 in the Outback in order to leave enough for 3-row production. If it turns out to be a dud like the Tribeca, then they can limit availability of the 2.0 in the Legacy and call it a super-special edition or something.

As it is they have quite a few different variations when they only used to have a few. Right now, they ship 2 different 2.0L engines, two 2.5L engines and the 3.6. Isn't that enough for a tiny car company?
SUbaru made huge improvement on the H6, When they first came out it was barely over 200 HP (approx 10-12 yrs ago)and needed premium gas. Now, It is 256HP on regular gas.

As comparison, the 2.5 first came out in 1998 outting out 165HP on reg gas,. Today it is 173 HP.(8HP improvement is 16 yrs)

Is the H6 capable of improving ..Yes, Most auto-maker 6cyl are putting out close to 300HP (average arounf 275, I think)...


Droppign H6 from Outback is a Bad idea. Most 3.6R OB owner are not attracted to Turbo. (Family man don't have time for strigent maintenance schedule).and most of them came from V8, so, there's no replacement for displacement for them.

And drop h6 from Outback and offer that exclusively for this new 3 row suv is also a bad decision because if this model Tank, Subaru will have the H6 factory empty while the 4 cyl engine factory cannot catch up with demand. Just way too risky.

COntinue offering the H6 on Legacy and outback (They can test the market again for a turbo legacy only like up to 2011) and the new 3 row SUv will be exclusively H6. This is less risky and more allign with overall market demand.
 

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you guys need to read between the lines a little more

If Subaru does anything with the H6 they will do a ground up new H6 designed to accept DI tech which case the 3.0 comment sorta makes sense - engine with DI capability does not need to be turbo to see pretty sizable performance bump in power.
 
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