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Discussion Starter #1
Just got off the phone with Aisin tech support. They are introducing a new kit for the Outback/Legacy platform which uses curvilinear timing belts. It is the TKF 011. Their current kit is TKF 006 for Forester/Impreza with modified curvilinear belts. You can look at a couple recent threads I started on this kit. Except for the belt, all other parts are the same. Aisin said the same thing Gates did - the same grooved idler works on both belts. In fact, Aisin will use the same grooved idler in both kits and refer to it as OEM 13085AA080. Subaru says the idler for curvilinear belts should be 13085AA061. I had both in my hands and they are identical except the 080 has two bearings. So, my earlier recommendation is validated. Use the 006 kit and buy the right timing belt or wait a couple weeks for the new TKF 011 kit to hit the stores.
 

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There has been SO many problems with aftermarket parts included in timing belt kits that I now do ONLY Japanese parts for the pulleys and tensioners(and water pumps if doing that too). Never had problems with Gates and Conti belts, but they are all now including substandard parts in their kits. So use what Subaru uses - saving $50-$100 is not worth it as a failure can ruin an engjne.
 

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There has been SO many problems with aftermarket parts included in timing belt kits that I now do ONLY Japanese parts for the pulleys and tensioners(and water pumps if doing that too). Never had problems with Gates and Conti belts, but they are all now including substandard parts in their kits. So use what Subaru uses - saving $50-$100 is not worth it as a failure can ruin an engjne.
You must not be familiar with Aisin kits. They are 100% made in Japan OEM or OEM equivalent NSK, NTN, Koyo, Mitsuboshi and Aisin. Most consider this the premier timing belt kit. Comparing Aisin kits to Gates kits is like comparing a Mercedes to a Hyundai.
 

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You must not be familiar with Aisin kits. They are 100% made in Japan OEM or OEM equivalent NSK, NTN, Koyo, Mitsuboshi and Aisin. Most consider this the premier timing belt kit. Comparing Aisin kits to Gates kits is like comparing a Mercedes to a Hyundai.
Hyundai has an overall reliability rating higher than Mercedes, so you're saying get the Gates kit????????
 

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Hyundai has an overall reliability rating higher than Mercedes, so you're saying get the Gates kit????????
Ok, ok I am showing my age. Reputations for quality have changed dramatically over the decades. Think of Company A which is universally acclaimed for making the worlds best widgets. Now think of Company B whose widgets everyone agrees are pure dog do-do. Aisin is Company A and Gates is Company B, at least as far as timing belt kits go.
 

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I've been using Gates timing belt kits with an Aisin water pump on tons of Outbacks... has the Gates quality gone down that significantly? Used to be the only way to get aftermarket pulleys with OEM (or OEM+) bearings.
 

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I've been using Gates timing belt kits with an Aisin water pump on tons of Outbacks... has the Gates quality gone down that significantly? Used to be the only way to get aftermarket pulleys with OEM (or OEM+) bearings.

Many discussions here and other forums. Weak link used to be water pump and still is. Big problems came when Gates started using generic Chinese idlers and tensioners instead of NTN, NSK and Koyo. Major quality issues with tensioners. Gates attempted to fix by offering kits with only Japanese parts for those willing to pay more. These kits have part numbers ending in “N”. Gates screwed the pooch again by inadvertently putting cheap bearings in “N” kits. I think this has been sorted out but recently some report Gates is again using selected generic parts in their “N” kits. I can not imagine why anyone would use a Gates kit on an interference engine.
 

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You must not be familiar with Aisin kits. They are 100% made in Japan OEM or OEM equivalent NSK, NTN, Koyo, Mitsuboshi and Aisin. Most consider this the premier timing belt kit. Comparing Aisin kits to Gates kits is like comparing a Mercedes to a Hyundai.
Wasn't comparing the kits, as recently Gates was using cheap Chinese pulleys, and other c×omponents. But Gates make VERY good belts and all rubber parts. I've replaced so many hoses on German cars; never had a Gates TB or hose fail. Same for Japanese, although I have less data on those.

I may actually may be using an Asin kit then(all Japanese parts), but it was not marketed as such. Your original post mentions the "grooved" idler (I`m assuming that means the toothed one) being a one bearing vs two on the original kit. I noticed the original in my OB had a greenish bearing cover vs the new one being black. Is that the one? This one vs two bearing thing is not great, as two bearings are typically used for higher stress areas. The one bearing ones when used in those areas will get noisy before 100K miles, in my experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Wasn't comparing the kits, as recently Gates was using cheap Chinese pulleys, and other c×omponents. But Gates make VERY good belts and all rubber parts. I've replaced so many hoses on German cars; never had a Gates TB or hose fail. Same for Japanese, although I have less data on those.

I may actually may be using an Asin kit then(all Japanese parts), but it was not marketed as such. Your original post mentions the "grooved" idler (I`m assuming that means the toothed one) being a one bearing vs two on the original kit. I noticed the original in my OB had a greenish bearing cover vs the new one being black. Is that the one? This one vs two bearing thing is not great, as two bearings are typically used for higher stress areas. The one bearing ones when used in those areas will get noisy before 100K miles, in my experience.
The Aisin kit contains the two bearing grooved idler 13085AA080. NSK bearing shields are black as shown here

https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_2007_Outback-XT-25L-TURBO-5AT/IDLER-COMPLETE-BELT-NO2/49224956/13085AA080.html


The 080 is specified for the 07 OB DOHC turbo. The 07 SOHC came with the single bearing 13085AA061. The one I removed with 91k miles was in perfect condition. The 080 is total overkill (much more expensive too) for the SOHC engine but that was in the kit so I put it on.

One other point, there was some speculation that Aisin was sourcing the water pump from Yamada. I thought that too based on the casting but Aisin told me Yamada is not interested in the aftermarket so they are making that pump themselves. The fit and finish are so perfect it looks like a fine sculpture.
 

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The Aisin kit contains the two bearing grooved idler 13085AA080. NSK bearing shields are black as shown here

https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_2007_Outback-XT-25L-TURBO-5AT/IDLER-COMPLETE-BELT-NO2/49224956/13085AA080.html
The NSK Subaru OEM on my NA 06 2.5L had a green bearing shield. The new NSK in my kit was black. It is marked 59-TB0515 which is cross referenced to to the 13085AA080. It is 1/4 the Subaru price, which is not surprising, of course.

I just had problems with German kits which subbed single bearing idlers where double were specified. Thank for the clarification for the NA one vs the Turbo one. For curiosity, I just found the old one replaced on my NA and it is still smooth and tight, so it would seem to confirm what you say that it is more than adequate for the NA.
 

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I wonder how soon they will be available? I'm in need of a kit in the next month, or two.
 

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Question on the AISIN kit, is the Water pump gasket metal or cork ? I seem to recall the Subaru OEM WP gasket made of metal
 

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Question on the AISIN kit, is the Water pump gasket metal or cork ? I seem to recall the Subaru OEM WP gasket made of metal
I haven't bought the kit (only the water pump when buying the Gates timing belt kit in the past) but the gasket is (was?) metal.
 

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'09 Outback SE AT, '15 Forester Prem CVT
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The 011 kit is available for $252.xx at Rock auto and $316.xx at amazon. Any testimonials from owners who have recently installed this kit?
 

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I've been battling this in my brain for a while now....I have the 011 in my cart at Rock Auto for my 08. I was just going to do a Gates belt kit, but after too much research, I decided on this one, as it has the water pump..Even though the water pump might have already been done by previous owner, I figure why not, since I'm there, and it's only $50 more.
 
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