I have read thru the head gasket issues and wondered if anyone knows if they fixed the problems on the new cars?
New to Forum thinking about a 2011 outback
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Submissions are now being taken for AUGUST OUTBACK OF THE MONTH
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My wife and I just test drove a 2011 Outback because the head gasket went in our 06. I thought they fixed the HG problem by 03 but as I learned from a couple hours searching this site it (HG issue) now rears its ugly head in the form of and external oil leak.
I did not find any concrete information that indicates the issue has been solved 100%. Problem is enough of the newer models have not yet approached 70-100k which is where they are more likely to fail. Its unlikely the problem will be as bad on the later models as it is on the late 90s early 2000s but nevertheless it seems the potential is still there.
We loved all the imprevments on the 2011 and really the new Subaru Outback design fits our needs so well I'd be willing to risk buying one regardles of the HG issue. The CVT tranny is really nice but that too concerned us a bit because it hasn't been out long enough in mass produced autos to be time tested. In the end I decided to have my car repaired and keep it because its got a lot of life left instead of making payments again on a new one.....but if we were buying a new car, I'd probably get the Outback but insist on first taking it out on the highway for a test drive to 80mph to make sure its not plaged with the steering shake issue I've just recently read about.
I did not find any concrete information that indicates the issue has been solved 100%. Problem is enough of the newer models have not yet approached 70-100k which is where they are more likely to fail. Its unlikely the problem will be as bad on the later models as it is on the late 90s early 2000s but nevertheless it seems the potential is still there.
We loved all the imprevments on the 2011 and really the new Subaru Outback design fits our needs so well I'd be willing to risk buying one regardles of the HG issue. The CVT tranny is really nice but that too concerned us a bit because it hasn't been out long enough in mass produced autos to be time tested. In the end I decided to have my car repaired and keep it because its got a lot of life left instead of making payments again on a new one.....but if we were buying a new car, I'd probably get the Outback but insist on first taking it out on the highway for a test drive to 80mph to make sure its not plaged with the steering shake issue I've just recently read about.
My wife and I recently bought a 2011 Legacy as I thought the HG issue was resolved in 2005 but it really hasn't been. However starting in 2010 Legacy/Outbacks are running the MLS gaskets from the 07+ STI. Because of coolant flow hot spots the common feeling is the cylinder head is also a semi closed deck, but no one can confirm until one is torn apart. Turbos in general have had better realibility in the HG arena so if this gasket can handle 300 HP I feel pretty good having it hold onto my 170 hp. I'll do my mainteance on schedule and even though the manual says the new coolant is good until 135k miles...no thanks. I'll swap it at 50k then with the belt at 105k. Subaru still calls for the conditioner to be added but that doesn't surprise me at all.
I visually confirmed this on my car as well. You can see that the gasket is bright metal and has multiple layers, there is also a hump section near the front of the block that exactly matches the STI's gaskets.
I love the car and my sister lovers her 2011 Outback! If you're in the market for one I can't recommend them enough.
I visually confirmed this on my car as well. You can see that the gasket is bright metal and has multiple layers, there is also a hump section near the front of the block that exactly matches the STI's gaskets.
I love the car and my sister lovers her 2011 Outback! If you're in the market for one I can't recommend them enough.
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Can anyone here confirm that 2010 Outback 2.5 has STI HG's? I asked a Subaru service department mechanic earlier today aboutthe potential for head gaskets problems in 2010/2011 Outbacks. The only thing he was able to confirm is that head gasket replacement parts are "beefier" than previous generation. I didn't ask him about STI gaskets because I just read this now.
Thanks
Thanks
Beefier ... could he be any more ambiguous ?
In order to even contemplate whether or not a STI multilayer gasket would solve known headgasket issues, one would need to know the actual cause of the failures ... as far as I've read ... there is a lot of speculation but little in the way of actual evidence.
The idea behind a semi closed deck is to stop the cylinder that the piston rides in from "walking" or moving sideways due to the extreme pressures crated under boost [turbo] situations. If the problem is the head bolts backing out or flexing or bad cooling flow design ... I'd think that it would fail eventually regardless.
In order to even contemplate whether or not a STI multilayer gasket would solve known headgasket issues, one would need to know the actual cause of the failures ... as far as I've read ... there is a lot of speculation but little in the way of actual evidence.
The idea behind a semi closed deck is to stop the cylinder that the piston rides in from "walking" or moving sideways due to the extreme pressures crated under boost [turbo] situations. If the problem is the head bolts backing out or flexing or bad cooling flow design ... I'd think that it would fail eventually regardless.
Here is the link to a Seattle WA automotive technicians website that will explain almost everything to you. I'm specifically including the link about the 2010+ Outback Legacys but you can read all his other blogs and articles while you're there.
Subaru Changed Their Head Gasket For The 2010 2.5L - Seattle Subaru Repair
Here is a video explanation of the 2010 as well.
He gives full explanations on what is causing the problem and he even helped give a couple design queues on the MLS gasket they use for older models that has yet to fail on him. The Turbos and H6's have been using MLS gaskets for years with much lower failure ratios. So having a MLS or "beefy" gasket is the first plus the semi closed deck keeps the block from flexing as much which rubs the gaskets. Metal moves and thats just how it is but a semi closed deck block moves less so there is our second plus.
I never book marked the PDF I found that had the full Subaru PNs but the new gaskets end in 670 and the old ones were 633. The current turbo gaskets are now 770. I found a comment somewhere where this was acknowledged but no one new what the 770 update is.
I'm a backyard mechanic but not a certified one. I hope I've helped point others in the right direction. If you have a mechanical question about this search the blogs on all wheel drives website and if you don't see your answer just ask him. Hes a really nice guy who knows his stuff. Hopefully this will put current owners with concerns at ease, like myself, and help prospective buyers buy with confidence.
Subaru Changed Their Head Gasket For The 2010 2.5L - Seattle Subaru Repair
Here is a video explanation of the 2010 as well.
He gives full explanations on what is causing the problem and he even helped give a couple design queues on the MLS gasket they use for older models that has yet to fail on him. The Turbos and H6's have been using MLS gaskets for years with much lower failure ratios. So having a MLS or "beefy" gasket is the first plus the semi closed deck keeps the block from flexing as much which rubs the gaskets. Metal moves and thats just how it is but a semi closed deck block moves less so there is our second plus.
I never book marked the PDF I found that had the full Subaru PNs but the new gaskets end in 670 and the old ones were 633. The current turbo gaskets are now 770. I found a comment somewhere where this was acknowledged but no one new what the 770 update is.
I'm a backyard mechanic but not a certified one. I hope I've helped point others in the right direction. If you have a mechanical question about this search the blogs on all wheel drives website and if you don't see your answer just ask him. Hes a really nice guy who knows his stuff. Hopefully this will put current owners with concerns at ease, like myself, and help prospective buyers buy with confidence.
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New HG
Thank you very much, Foxrider. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video is worth 10 thousand! I will my ask my dealer about this new part number. I'm curioius to see if Subaru installed it in every outback since the redesign in 2010, or if they started at a date specific in the manufacture process? I don't want to buy a new outback if this part is not in it.
-Thx again.
Thank you very much, Foxrider. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video is worth 10 thousand! I will my ask my dealer about this new part number. I'm curioius to see if Subaru installed it in every outback since the redesign in 2010, or if they started at a date specific in the manufacture process? I don't want to buy a new outback if this part is not in it.
-Thx again.
Its really hard to verify everything right now with these models being so new. One thing I did was go to rockauto's website and compare their PN's through the years. This is how I was able to link 07+ STI's to 2010+ Outbacks, that and the mysterious Subaru PDF I can't find!
Go to a lot with a skinny screwdriver, and ask to pop the hood on a new one. Look at the front of the head (radiator side) and you'll see parts where the gasket pops up a little and it will be shiny metal. Then you can lightly flick the top of the gasket with your screwdriver and it will separate into 3 or 4 pieces. In fact you can see the mutliple layers without even touching it. This will ensure for anyone in person that its a MLS gasket vs the old single layer 633 gasket.
This isn't a gaurentee that we'll never see a head gasket failure on these models. From my research on the H6's they usually either don't fail or fail north of 150K. I'm perfectly fine resealing an engine after 150k for the AWD, safety, and to keep the car if I still like it. Its the sub 150k mileage failures that suck. Bad coolant and bad oil will eat any gasekt and with the boxer motor the gaskets are simply subject to this more than an inline or V motor. This is why I'm NOT waiting until 7500 miles to change my oil. In the winter I'll follow the severe schedule of 3750 and summer I'll do 5000 oil change intervals. I'm going to use full synthetic as well. For the coolant I'll drain the radiotor and top off every 50k with the 100k intervals seeing a new timing belt. Also don't let your battery get corroded, keep it clean!
Go to a lot with a skinny screwdriver, and ask to pop the hood on a new one. Look at the front of the head (radiator side) and you'll see parts where the gasket pops up a little and it will be shiny metal. Then you can lightly flick the top of the gasket with your screwdriver and it will separate into 3 or 4 pieces. In fact you can see the mutliple layers without even touching it. This will ensure for anyone in person that its a MLS gasket vs the old single layer 633 gasket.
This isn't a gaurentee that we'll never see a head gasket failure on these models. From my research on the H6's they usually either don't fail or fail north of 150K. I'm perfectly fine resealing an engine after 150k for the AWD, safety, and to keep the car if I still like it. Its the sub 150k mileage failures that suck. Bad coolant and bad oil will eat any gasekt and with the boxer motor the gaskets are simply subject to this more than an inline or V motor. This is why I'm NOT waiting until 7500 miles to change my oil. In the winter I'll follow the severe schedule of 3750 and summer I'll do 5000 oil change intervals. I'm going to use full synthetic as well. For the coolant I'll drain the radiotor and top off every 50k with the 100k intervals seeing a new timing belt. Also don't let your battery get corroded, keep it clean!
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I went to the Subaru Dealer today to shop for an Outback. The president of the dealership had the head of maintenance check on the head gasket part numbers for 2010/2011 Outbacks. The replacement part number was A670. This older outback's had part muber 253, 36D, etc. The maintenance manager was not aware that Subaru had replaced the head gasket and that the engine had a semi closed head block similar to the Turbo engines. I wonder why this has to be a secret? You would think that Subaru would advertise this change very heavily. My guess is that they are not sure it will work and they are taking a wait and see attitude toward this issue.
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Why would you openly promote this when the HG issue is nothing like the 2000 through 2001 where nearly every 2.5 ended up on the rack getting the HG's done?
Most subaru buyers hardly even understand the AWD aspect let alone that its a flat 4 with an updated gasket design. LOL
Most subaru buyers hardly even understand the AWD aspect let alone that its a flat 4 with an updated gasket design. LOL
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Hg 2010/2011 2.5
Foxrider. I was able to confirm the use of the A670 Head Gasket in the 2010/2011 Outback, today. The service manager at the dealership (I was there to talk price) did a print out for gasket replacement of these model outbacks, and the part number was 11044AA670. He seemed to think this means that Subaru is using this part in existing late model outbacks (2010/2011). I don't think this is just an upgraded part to be used in place of failed head gaskets. From the look of the design of this gasket in the video, the car has to be designed to fit it. The coolant port spaces, for one, are different than the older engine head gasket design. It would be neat to also confirm the use of a semi closed deck. Although, the design of the gasket appears to answer this question. :29:
Foxrider. I was able to confirm the use of the A670 Head Gasket in the 2010/2011 Outback, today. The service manager at the dealership (I was there to talk price) did a print out for gasket replacement of these model outbacks, and the part number was 11044AA670. He seemed to think this means that Subaru is using this part in existing late model outbacks (2010/2011). I don't think this is just an upgraded part to be used in place of failed head gaskets. From the look of the design of this gasket in the video, the car has to be designed to fit it. The coolant port spaces, for one, are different than the older engine head gasket design. It would be neat to also confirm the use of a semi closed deck. Although, the design of the gasket appears to answer this question. :29:
I completely agree that all signs point to a semi closed deck. Now some people online have claimed that this gasket can be used on an open deck for a rebuild but I don't think thats a good idea and I can't imagine an OEM doing that. Hot coolant banging directly against that closed port would in my mind create premature wear. I don't see SOA directly admitting to the change either. If they ever said anything they would probably claim it was cheaper to manufacturer all 2.5's to the same specs.
The sad part about all of this is all of their cars would be closed deck if they weren't trying to save a few buck on aluminum per engine. I wonder how much they've saved with open deck designs vs how much HG failures have cost them direct and indirect over time.
The sad part about all of this is all of their cars would be closed deck if they weren't trying to save a few buck on aluminum per engine. I wonder how much they've saved with open deck designs vs how much HG failures have cost them direct and indirect over time.
I had a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid with CVT for 5 years. No problems, although I know the Subaru could easily be a different story. We towed light trailers and filled it with lots of heavy loads without a trailer. The car was finally wiped out in a rear-ender accident. I, too, was wondering about the CVT, but we had no problems, even with a Fix Or Repair Daily car. Of course, Toyota did the engineering.
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·2011 Subaru Outback Premium w/ 2.5i 4cyl. engine; 55,000 miles and has head gasket leak. Fortunately all work was totally covered by drive train warranty. This totally caught me off guard as everything I had read about Subarus was how reliable they are. I'm thinking I should sell it now, but the dealer says they've never had one return that was properly repaired with an upgraded head gasket.
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