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I am thrilled at the trim level offerings. I hope the price is reasonable. Not every state has California like tax credits and electric company credits so I hope they don’t price out other markets.
I read that Zero Emission Vehicle states will be the ones getting the Solterra at first.

California
Colorado
Connecticut
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New York
Oregon
Rhode Island
Vermont
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Not sure if the writeups above cover this:
no frunk, IMO this gives the look of an ICE platform reconfigured to EV; what you do when you don't have the time to figure out where to put things away:
two of the video reviews I saw mentioned that... I figured it was a feature in other vehicles so worthy of pointing out. In each they said the spokespeople for the car said it was to create more room in the cabin at the expense of that storage area.
 

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Thanks for pointing that out!

Munro has reviewed a bunch of EVs and by his way of looking at it, having no frunk means the engineers for some reason could not manage to locate more of the hardware outside the front compartment. Sometimes there is just too much hardware to neatly stow elsewhere, bc of a need to repurpose ICE hardware that was never intended to fit in an EV layout.

Frunks are a selling point and I think the next-gen Solterra will have one.
 

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I won't miss what I don't currently have. I won't miss the frunk, but if I came from a vehicle that had it, you bet I would. The ID4 doesn't have one either. It's all good. Maybe it gets redesigned in the future, maybe it won't. My guess is there will be other things that compel me to upgrade in the future aside from that - such as if Toyota & Subaru unlock the "Solid State" battery they've been working on.

At the end of the day, the ~220 rating is fine, but the price has to make sense. I am hoping the Limited comes in around an actual sale price of $42,500 (MSRP likely higher) which would be around $35,000 after the Federal Tax Credit.

It's a shame I can't keep paying the 0% APR on my Outback XT if I trade for the Solterra, because that was a sweet deal getting 0% for 63 months... free money... I figure I'd just do a 48/60 term and just pay a little extra every month but have the flexibility of lower payments if I needed to.
 

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Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the Solterra and it seems really nice, but we need to be realistic about it. If it had a 350-400 range, maybe I could actually use it for my business travel. Right now it would just be inconvenient. Grocery getter maybe?
 

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2020 Onyx
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My groceries are 5 miles away. 200 mile range is fine for people who just commute less than 50 miles to work and come home to charge.
 

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My groceries are 5 miles away. 200 mile range is fine for people who just commute less than 50 miles to work and come home to charge.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. People I think are afraid of change in general. 220 miles daily is a lot.

220x365 days = 80,300 miles per year potentially

12,000 miles per year = Less than 33 miles per day
 

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In my opinion, this type of driving makes you a great candidate for an electric. If you can deal with the inconvenience of stopping to charge on your commute, you are looking at substantial cost savings over time. You are doing around 50k miles per year at 200 miles round trip, 5 days a week. The difference in cost of gasoline versus electricity will add up quickly.

Your stop at a DCFC wouldn’t be very long. Just long enough to give yourself a little buffer to get home and connect to your home level 2 charging solution. By morning, you’re full up again and ready to go. DCFC is not meant to replace your home charging solution. Likewise, as employers and job sites start gaining the infrastructure, you are looking at being full when your job is done and you head home.
Yes, a perfect candidate for an EV from anyone but a legacy company like Subaru. You know, ones that are actually offering over 300 miles on a charge because they don't have to compete against their own ICE vehicles and are starting from a clean slate.

Makes no sense. Perfect candidate if you don't mind a stop off to charge during your commute. And while we're at it, no idling (so to speak) or sitting in your car listening to music while catching up on some messages and calls before driving and so on and so on. Or if you want to deviate from that course in any way...

But yes, the perfect candidate.

If your commute was 200 miles and your range on a charge is 240, no, you are not a candidate for that vehicle because you have no room for deviation whatsoever. Stop at the gym, market, pick up the kids and so on. Unless your employer has charging so you can be at full when you leave.

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If you routinely drive 200+ miles for your job 5 days a week, it would probably be the most ecologically and financially smart decision to have the most fuel efficient vehicle in your class that you can while accomplishing your needs. In other words, having a Civic or something small that sips gas would likely be ideal, unless you actually needed the cargo space for your job. So you wouldn't buy a 3.6R with the intent to put 200 miles a day 5 times a week on it, unless you needed the power of the engine or the space the cargo provides over a smaller class of car, such as a sedan which is more aerodynamic. As suggested in my previous post, people that drive 80,000 miles per year are in a small minority. And, as you pointed out, once workplace charging is commonplace, it becomes a moot point.

It is kind of like a pickup truck argument. Actual needs vs. wants. Most of the people I know with a pickup don't even use the bed for anything that couldn't fit in a smaller SUV. But, `Murica, you won't take my freedom.
 

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A reminder that the elephant in the room is the Chinese (and other non-Japanese Asian) mfgs who are about to flood the markets with up to date, good quality, tuned to the market cars that beat the legacies on price.

My guess is that GM will morph into the conduit to funnel the Chinese product in. So the GM CEO is not kidding when she says GM will be #1 in EVs: just that they will be badge engineered cars made in China.

I'm looking forward to Munro's video next week telling which makes he thinks will flourish, decline, and disappear from the EV revolution.
 

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Yeah, my thoughts exactly. People I think are afraid of change in general. 220 miles daily is a lot.

220x365 days = 80,300 miles per year potentially

12,000 miles per year = Less than 33 miles per day
I am looking forward to getting my first EV. I just want it to have a range similar to a modern vehicle. My outback I can get 450+ miles to tank and 29+MPG when traveling on business. Traveling 200 miles, stopping for an hour somewhere and waiting to charge my vehicle then moving on is not an efficient use of my time. Some people have trips that are much more distant and the method of charging an EV on the go is not efficient. My customers pay for my time. Not going to tell them, "gee, my car only gets 200 miles at a pop, so you will be paying me more money to get there because you are 500 miles away and no decent airport goes to your town or area".

You're math is quite funny though. As if anyone travels with that clear cut simplistic math. "I better get my potential 200 miles in today so i can achieve my potential 80,000 miles because I do that every day and that 80K miles number makes it sound like I have all the miles in the world to travel cross-country without problems! Look at that big number!" "And I will never have times where I drive beyond that many miles and sit at an EV charging station like a zombie waiting for my car to charge for a while so I can get another 200 miles in on this trip. Don't worry honey, eventually I will get home if this darn car gets charged already! And honey, don't worry about the fact that I am a sitting duck at a charging station waiting to get robbed because what is my car going to do when it is almost has no charge. Love you"

I generally work from home, travel a whole bunch then repeat the cycle. Rarely do much in town driving. Everyone is different and have different needs for their vehicle. If I lived in a large city and traveled just within the city, I would have either just used public transportation, or bought an EV years ago.
 

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While I believe I generally understand your point about the charging, I think there's a few things that I can respond to:

I'm happy to hear you're getting that range from your XT. As a suburban/city/occasional highway driver, I am around 200 miles and have to refuel soon, within the next day or two as I'm below a quarter tank. I'm generally looking around 250-275 miles per tank. Not much different from a "full charge"...

It will not take an hour to replenish 200 miles of range at a DCFC like Electrify America. If you are on a 150 kW charger, which seems to be common. I believe Toyota has said their specifications to be from around 0-80% in about a half hour. That's a big difference.

You could use this 30 minutes to be productive, in the sense of emails, texts, other work related calling that you would have had to do anyway. Personally? I envision myself watching some Disney+ or Hulu while I'm waiting. But, getting carjacked is not one of my concerns. It's not like this couldn't happen at a gas station, as well.

Also, your gas station stop doesn't freeze time. If you're outside NJ, at least you can fill it yourself, but it still does take time away to do that, moreso if you have to go inside for a receipt (printer broken at the pump? see clerk inside) or pay cash ahead of pumping. My typical gasoline stop from start to finish from leaving my driveway to parking it is about 20 minutes. About 5 each way to the pump, and then 10 pumping. Sometimes a little longer, depending on time of day. I try to get there in the morning when they first open. But it's likely no more convenient compared to electric, after you figure with an EV you are leaving your home every day at a full tank.

I do agree that if you are driving 500 miles away as you've suggested that the infrastructure or battery technology might not be there yet. But, I think you have to acknowledge that most drivers don't have this type of driving. And, if you don't need the cargo room from your Outback, it would have likely been a better option to get a smaller class vehicle. And, if you don't tow or require the extra power of the turbocharger 2.4 Boxer, you probably should have considered the base model Outback. Otherwise, this is a "want" vs. a "need" argument.

Just to be clear, I also chose an XT because I wanted the extra power on highways and hills from my previous experience with my Outback 2.5's and Forester 2.5. But, I am not comparing the Outback XT to the Solterra because they are a completely different class of vehicle. If you want 350-400+ miles of range, you will need to open your pockets and consider a Tesla at the moment, otherwise keep what you've got. But you are in a minority with the 500+ mile drives you've suggested, and this doesn't mean that a 500+ mile battery is right for everyone.

I do not want to pay for a 500+ mile range battery when I will seldom even use more than 150 of it at a time. Most of the time I will be under 30 for the day. The remaining 470 miles is wasted.

Again, I think there is a lot of mystique with EV DCFC and it's not really that complicated. Aside from Tesla, you just connect your vehicle, open your app for the charger network you're at, and then start charging. Do something else like shop, use the restrooms, buy a coffee, buy a snack/meal, do some work/personal e-mails, texts, calls, or just enjoy some leisure time for a few minutes while it charges.

If 30 minutes gets you from 0 to 80%, stop after 15 minutes and you'll be at 40%. Stop after 10 minutes and you'll be around 28%. DCFC is meant to give you enough juice to get home, where it gets plugged in overnight. It is not intended to replace destination or home charging solutions.

And it's still a heck of a lot cheaper than gasoline is.
 

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While I believe I generally understand your point about the charging, I think there's a few things that I can respond to:

I'm happy to hear you're getting that range from your XT. As a suburban/city/occasional highway driver, I am around 200 miles and have to refuel soon, within the next day or two as I'm below a quarter tank. I'm generally looking around 250-275 miles per tank. Not much different from a "full charge"...

It will not take an hour to replenish 200 miles of range at a DCFC like Electrify America. If you are on a 150 kW charger, which seems to be common. I believe Toyota has said their specifications to be from around 0-80% in about a half hour. That's a big difference.

You could use this 30 minutes to be productive, in the sense of emails, texts, other work related calling that you would have had to do anyway. Personally? I envision myself watching some Disney+ or Hulu while I'm waiting. But, getting carjacked is not one of my concerns. It's not like this couldn't happen at a gas station, as well.

Also, your gas station stop doesn't freeze time. If you're outside NJ, at least you can fill it yourself, but it still does take time away to do that, moreso if you have to go inside for a receipt (printer broken at the pump? see clerk inside) or pay cash ahead of pumping. My typical gasoline stop from start to finish from leaving my driveway to parking it is about 20 minutes. About 5 each way to the pump, and then 10 pumping. Sometimes a little longer, depending on time of day. I try to get there in the morning when they first open. But it's likely no more convenient compared to electric, after you figure with an EV you are leaving your home every day at a full tank.

I do agree that if you are driving 500 miles away as you've suggested that the infrastructure or battery technology might not be there yet. But, I think you have to acknowledge that most drivers don't have this type of driving. And, if you don't need the cargo room from your Outback, it would have likely been a better option to get a smaller class vehicle. And, if you don't tow or require the extra power of the turbocharger 2.4 Boxer, you probably should have considered the base model Outback. Otherwise, this is a "want" vs. a "need" argument.

Just to be clear, I also chose an XT because I wanted the extra power on highways and hills from my previous experience with my Outback 2.5's and Forester 2.5. But, I am not comparing the Outback XT to the Solterra because they are a completely different class of vehicle. If you want 350-400+ miles of range, you will need to open your pockets and consider a Tesla at the moment, otherwise keep what you've got. But you are in a minority with the 500+ mile drives you've suggested, and this doesn't mean that a 500+ mile battery is right for everyone.

I do not want to pay for a 500+ mile range battery when I will seldom even use more than 150 of it at a time. Most of the time I will be under 30 for the day. The remaining 470 miles is wasted.

Again, I think there is a lot of mystique with EV DCFC and it's not really that complicated. Aside from Tesla, you just connect your vehicle, open your app for the charger network you're at, and then start charging. Do something else like shop, use the restrooms, buy a coffee, buy a snack/meal, do some work/personal e-mails, texts, calls, or just enjoy some leisure time for a few minutes while it charges.

If 30 minutes gets you from 0 to 80%, stop after 15 minutes and you'll be at 40%. Stop after 10 minutes and you'll be around 28%. DCFC is meant to give you enough juice to get home, where it gets plugged in overnight. It is not intended to replace destination or home charging solutions.

And it's still a heck of a lot cheaper than gasoline is.
All good points. The 30 minutes to 80% I am not sure if that is actually true. I am in the minority but my point was about afraid of change. I am excited to see what is on the horizon to suit my needs and it can clearly suit the needs of someone like SilverOnyx that commutes 50 miles. Probably would have had one by now. For now, lots of miles and a 5 minute stop for lots of miles is still the solution if you want to cover more miles in a day.

Doing the speed limit and making a long journey and my outback will cover way more miles per day than the current EVs.

On the flip side, it would be nice to have an EV on the times where we are doing short trips, but I don’t want to have more than one expensive vehicle at a time.
 

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One of the benefits of an EV is that there are much fewer parts and less maintenance concerns, but the downside is that if something does go wrong, there's very little that a homeowner can do to fix their own. There's a little bit of the "devil you know" situation for me.
 
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While I believe I generally understand your point about the charging, I think there's a few things that I can respond to:

I'm happy to hear you're getting that range from your XT. As a suburban/city/occasional highway driver, I am around 200 miles and have to refuel soon, within the next day or two as I'm below a quarter tank. I'm generally looking around 250-275 miles per tank. Not much different from a "full charge"...

It will not take an hour to replenish 200 miles of range at a DCFC like Electrify America. If you are on a 150 kW charger, which seems to be common. I believe Toyota has said their specifications to be from around 0-80% in about a half hour. That's a big difference.

You could use this 30 minutes to be productive, in the sense of emails, texts, other work related calling that you would have had to do anyway. Personally? I envision myself watching some Disney+ or Hulu while I'm waiting. But, getting carjacked is not one of my concerns. It's not like this couldn't happen at a gas station, as well.

Also, your gas station stop doesn't freeze time. If you're outside NJ, at least you can fill it yourself, but it still does take time away to do that, moreso if you have to go inside for a receipt (printer broken at the pump? see clerk inside) or pay cash ahead of pumping. My typical gasoline stop from start to finish from leaving my driveway to parking it is about 20 minutes. About 5 each way to the pump, and then 10 pumping. Sometimes a little longer, depending on time of day. I try to get there in the morning when they first open. But it's likely no more convenient compared to electric, after you figure with an EV you are leaving your home every day at a full tank.

I do agree that if you are driving 500 miles away as you've suggested that the infrastructure or battery technology might not be there yet. But, I think you have to acknowledge that most drivers don't have this type of driving. And, if you don't need the cargo room from your Outback, it would have likely been a better option to get a smaller class vehicle. And, if you don't tow or require the extra power of the turbocharger 2.4 Boxer, you probably should have considered the base model Outback. Otherwise, this is a "want" vs. a "need" argument.

Just to be clear, I also chose an XT because I wanted the extra power on highways and hills from my previous experience with my Outback 2.5's and Forester 2.5. But, I am not comparing the Outback XT to the Solterra because they are a completely different class of vehicle. If you want 350-400+ miles of range, you will need to open your pockets and consider a Tesla at the moment, otherwise keep what you've got. But you are in a minority with the 500+ mile drives you've suggested, and this doesn't mean that a 500+ mile battery is right for everyone.

I do not want to pay for a 500+ mile range battery when I will seldom even use more than 150 of it at a time. Most of the time I will be under 30 for the day. The remaining 470 miles is wasted.

Again, I think there is a lot of mystique with EV DCFC and it's not really that complicated. Aside from Tesla, you just connect your vehicle, open your app for the charger network you're at, and then start charging. Do something else like shop, use the restrooms, buy a coffee, buy a snack/meal, do some work/personal e-mails, texts, calls, or just enjoy some leisure time for a few minutes while it charges.

If 30 minutes gets you from 0 to 80%, stop after 15 minutes and you'll be at 40%. Stop after 10 minutes and you'll be around 28%. DCFC is meant to give you enough juice to get home, where it gets plugged in overnight. It is not intended to replace destination or home charging solutions.

And it's still a heck of a lot cheaper than gasoline is.
Almost all destinations will not have charging. Whether it is a restaurant, amusement park, or a relative's house.
 

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My shore house has 120V, so I will bring the mobile charger. Since I barely drive once I get down there, that will still replenish around 20 kW of power per day. That’s good enough destination charging for me.
 

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Battery tech will improve, with higher density storage and faster charging. Software and range will improve. All of these things will improve because they have to. The mfgs as always need to give us reasons to trade up and buy new cars every few years. If the EV is to succeed, it has to offer clear advantages to ICE that are super easy to understand, for everybody. Long range and infrequent need for charging would be two such advantages.
 
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