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Lately, I've been reading a lot of examples (on this and other forums) of what I call the "Internet No Good News" principle. If your car (refrigerator, computer, mower, etc.) is running fine, do you complain? Of course not! If it breaks, that's another story.

The problem is that when one person has something go wrong on their new car, or it just goes ****-up period, that has a good chance of undergoing a transformation to a general principle...a mistaken principle: ("My car is a lemon, therefore they are all lemons"). I regularly read people who chime in on a thread where something has gone wrong stating that they have therefore been deterred from buying that particular item.

Manufacturing processes are not 100% effective, even though they get better all the time. That's why manufacturer's warranties exist. Don't trust Internet anecdotes. What to trust? Maybe Consumer Reports frequency of repair statistics, your choice.
 

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Heh. Well, at least you do the research. Keep researching because you sound like a smart person.

When I have something good to say, I say it. And you can believe that when I have something not-so-good to say, I'll do that, too.

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/109-gen-3-2005-2009/49080-took-delivery-08-2-5i-ltd.html

You should read gun forums (maybe you do in another life). Really it's just the way the Internet works. People have a tendency to think: "I Have One Of The Things That Are Out There and Therefore It Defines The Class." It's just the opposite of reality, but nobody ever said human beings were intrinsically good at math. Then they confound that with their specific problem. Of course it isn't so. In fact their problem is usually pretty rare, it's just that someone POSTED IT.

The internet is a place where people more or less constantly vent their problems and frustrations, because most of us do it anonymously and at zero marginal cost. It's not like calling a dealership or asking to speak to an actual expert, who need to charge for their time in order to survive. Therefore it's not surprising you hear a lot more "bad news." Bad news/controversial news not only gets recognition - people tend to be attracted to negative stories because they want to hear about problems other people are having. Some of that is OK and a lot of it are gawkers who can't afford therapy. This is the flipside of the reason gawkers slow down for traffic accidents: they don't want to be involved, they really don't want to help ... they just want to LOOK at what happened to other people.

Also, on a forum such as this one you have to realize that people post in statistically larger numbers *because* they have problems. In other words, the tendency is to have a preponderance of "I'm having trouble with my...." posts because most people go to the Internet first to find advice when they have difficulty. It's the $0 cost option, people don't like to spend money, they are also quite lazy unless they have to be, and as a result, the trustworthy forums tend to get more posts asking for advice to solve problems or listen to people complain. That's OK as far as it goes. It's always nice to help someone if you can, as long as they're not malicious. Helping other people with their bonafide problems is a kind of reward in itself, as long as you can do it, and there are always a subset of generous people who try very hard to do just that.

That's just the nature of the medium as a near-zero cost option when combined with ordinary human nature. If this site charged for membership, it wouldn't happen as much, but neither would as many questions be asked, and it's an open question whether they would be more valuable overall. There are sites on the internet that actually charge for answers to advice and you can see how well they do....n't.

As a result, fora like this one tend to get saturated with people looking for free advice who have either 1) Nowhere else to turn or are 2) Taking a bonafide chance and who want to contribute and will in the fullness of time because they are doing it in good will or are just 3) Plain noncontributory parasites or malefactors (see below). My rule of thumb is to try to contribute as much as I ask on any site. If I ask two questions, I try to answer two. In other words, because someone else did the work to help answer my question, I feel obligated to help other people in the forum if I can answer a question of theirs and I keep score.

But that's strictly voluntary and a lot of the Internet just doesn't do that. As a result, you will always notice a larger group of freeloaders in any forum than you will substantive contributors. Sad but true: the real internet is all about the freeloaders and it always has been. It's difficult to maintain a high-quality resource without erecting very large barriers to entry, and it's also very tough to keep the freeloaders from sponging. This site doesn't have to make a profit and it seems to handle itself very well, but the New York Times is having hella problems just asking people for 99 cents, now that the "everything is free" toothpaste has been squeezed into the heads of a generation of people. It's why so many newspapers are going broke. At the beginning it was: "It should be free!" :: they fulfilled their own prophesy and the ad. revenue never really recovered enough to compensate. You can hear the air leaking out of balloons everywhere.

Finally, there are the malicious posters who deliberately write counterfactual garbage to damage the brand/model. I guess you call some of them trolls, but they're more than just idle miscreants now. It happens quite purposefully and people are actually paid to do it - and it's hard to stop them because they're determined AND they get paid to do it. It happens a lot on gun forums: someone introduces a new model and suddenly on forums dedicated to those brands, you get a rash of people saying: "This thing is unsafe, it doesn't fire, it broke before I took it out of the box, my dog swallowed it because it smells like chocolate, it hurts my hand, it doesn't take any ammo. I feed it, it's dangerous, it will kill your children late at night when you're not looking., etc., etc." Usually in direct proportion to how good the new product actually is. The idea here is to damage the market share of the competitor and believe me companies do it to each other on purpose and hire people to conduct and wage the disinformation campaign. It's an entirely "internet-age" class of grey area.
 

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Also, on a forum such as this one you have to realize that people post in statistically larger numbers *because* they have problems. In other words, the tendency is to have a preponderance of "I'm having trouble with my...." posts because most people go to the Internet first to find advice when they have difficulty. That's because it's the $0 cost option, and as a result, the trustworthy forums tend to get more posts asking for advice to solve problems or listen to people complain. That's just the nature of the medium as a near-zero cost option.
I agree.

The other side of the coin from the bad news sites, which include all news outlets like CNN, NY Times, etc. - [bad news sells] are sites with GREAT NEWS or NO REAL NEWS like Facebook or Twitter. "Little Bobby's first baby tooth came out today!!!!" I suggest you take a Prozac and go to YouTube and watch puppy and kitten videos for a while. lol
 

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I agree.

The other side of the coin from the bad news sites, which include all news outlets like CNN, NY Times, etc. - [bad news sells] are sites with GREAT NEWS or NO REAL NEWS like Facebook or Twitter. "Little Bobby's first baby tooth came out today!!!!" I suggest you take a Prozac and go to YouTube and watch puppy and kitten videos for a while. lol
I'm all for puppies and kittens but did you ever notice how much trouble they are? Jeez, you've gotta feed 'em, vaccinate 'em, housebreak/litterbox train them, sometimes get permits and collars, spay and neuter unless you want to breed them, it's all just so much trouble. Pretty soon you wind up on a website, talking about how much trouble it was to get the stink out of your dog's fur after he went after a skunk, or complaining about how your pussycat tried to jump onto the counter, missed with the long claw on the right forepaw, dug in with the back legs ruining the finish, got up there, finally freaked out and skittered on some water while breaking all the dishes in the rack and finally jumping onto the refrigerator while taking out the entire spice rack, which fell into the garbage disposal she switched on, causing it to grind itself to death. And the prozac is no better, particularly when you give it to cats. It just makes them think: "This won't be so bad..." ;)

The Internet is Awful! Long Live the Internet! :18:
 

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I do like the style of a lot of people on this site. They say something like, "Hey, this thing fell off/doesn't work. Did this happen to anyone else? How do I fix it?"

I'm all good with that.

But you're right, there are a higher proportion of "I wish I could give no stars because a fuse blew in my car" and drag the whole brand down because of something stupid, which is sometimes something they actually caused...because of ignorance.
 

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I do like the style of a lot of people on this site. They say something like, "Hey, this thing fell off/doesn't work. Did this happen to anyone else? How do I fix it?"

I'm all good with that.

But you're right, there are a higher proportion of "I wish I could give no stars because a fuse blew in my car" and drag the whole brand down because of something stupid, which is sometimes something they actually caused...because of ignorance.
Ignorance and willful ignorance both suck. I've only been here recently but I investigated this site -- before I finally bought the car -- and Subaruoutback.org was a secondary factor in my decision to go through with the purchase, because of the people who really know what they're talking about and who are glad to share that knowledge. Part of my research in buying the car was investigating places like this forum so that I could have a backstop when I needed some answers to questions I knew nothing about. I actually got close to canceling the deal 36 hours out but after spending some time here I wasn't worried.

With my first Subaru I wanted to find a place with real expertise and many of the posts I've read evidence that and it was a factor in my purchase decision. As we put miles on this car, I want to give back everything I learn. So far I have absolutely nothing negative to contribute because it's working perfectly :).
 

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Ignorance and willful ignorance both suck. I've only been here recently but I investigated this site -- before I finally bought the car -- and Subaruoutback.org was a secondary factor in my decision to go through with the purchase, because of the people who really know what they're talking about and who are glad to share that knowledge. Part of my research in buying the car was investigating places like this forum so that I could have a backstop when I needed some answers to questions I knew nothing about. I actually got close to canceling the deal 36 hours out but after spending some time here I wasn't worried.

With my first Subaru I wanted to find a place with real expertise and many of the posts I've read evidence that and it was a factor in my purchase decision. As we put miles on this car, I want to give back everything I learn. So far I have absolutely nothing negative to contribute because it's working perfectly :).
Its great that you are enjoying your first Subie. It won't be the last one you buy for sure. You get hooked on them. You care for them in a fashion akin to family. You test them to find the limits. You get mad at it only to make up with a fresh waxing or new tires. Have fun with it on the trails thinking the car may have feelings you've damaged when you hit that boulder then curse yourself on the drive home thinking of the fastest way to "make it up to the car".

I love my Subaru. Past and present. My customers love theirs and are genuinely heartbroken when something happens with it. Not because of the cost of repair, oh no. Because the car is sick and needs attention. The attachment is great and we are a sentimental brew.

Oh, yeah, news and the internet. I try to just ignore it all. Too much negativity and bull. I have other things to concern myself with through the day without wasting time with internet clutter. I utilize the internet for work and research, a movie here and there, and forums such as this where I can use my knowledge and skill to help the ones that need it. Hopefully I've assisted in helping people save time and money while educating others. A world void of ignorance is a better place to be. I just hope human beings will catch on that you can't just float through life without putting out an effort and learn that the internet isn't all life is meant to be. There is dirt out there and it wants to be disturbed.

How's the cat? Did you get the kitchen repaired?
 
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