Any particular reason why you bother to drain the oil? If you just swap the filter, you won't lose any more oil if the sump is full than if it's empty.
Oil-Regular or Synthetic
I'm torn on whether to switch from using regular oil to synthetic. The one advantage I see is less trips in for an oil changes - 3750 miles (severe condition) to 7500 miles. Thoughts, please.
21 - 40 of 49 Posts
This junk is quoted all over the web. If you're tempted to give it credence, buy the article and read it for yourself:Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.
Antiwear Performance of Low Phosphorus Engine Oils on Tappet Inserts in Motored Sliding Valvetrain Test
To me, the conclusion is completely unjustified. This article involves an experiment with an externally powered test rig and an experimental oil formulation, not a real engine with store bought oil. The most important finding isn't that wear metals in general increased quickly at the outset of the test (what was the starting condition of the equipment?), but that lead levels, in particular, rose throughout the test (lead indicates bearing wear). Oil discussions always seem to end up with selective interpretations.
Every engine and driver is different. If your plan is to extend drain intervals, protect yourself and your engine by getting an occasional oil analysis. My opinion, a $20 oil analysis every 5000 miles vs. a routine $40 oil change every 7500 is close enough to break even to make it not worthwhile. Want help deciding? Read the owner's manual.
I reset my "B" trip counter to reflect the oil changes, so no math necessary (until I unplug the battery for some reason--like I did this time around to run a power cable for my under-seat sub).I may go to 5000 interval after warranty period only because it is easier for my mind to do the math!
Thanks dude...but did you even bother to read my next post following that one? SEE POST #16. The BIG question is...did YOU buy the article or is what you wrote just from the web also?!This junk is quoted all over the web. If you're tempted to give it credence, buy the article and read it for yourself:
Antiwear Performance of Low Phosphorus Engine Oils on Tappet Inserts in Motored Sliding Valvetrain Test
To me, the conclusion is completely unjustified. This article involves an experiment with an externally powered test rig and an experimental oil formulation, not a real engine with store bought oil. The most important finding isn't that wear metals in general increased quickly at the outset of the test (what was the starting condition of the equipment?), but that lead levels, in particular, rose throughout the test (lead indicates bearing wear). Oil discussions always seem to end up with selective interpretations.
Every engine and driver is different. If your plan is to extend drain intervals, protect yourself and your engine by getting an occasional oil analysis. My opinion, a $20 oil analysis every 5000 miles vs. a routine $40 oil change every 7500 is close enough to break even to make it not worthwhile. Want help deciding? Read the owner's manual.
That's a good idea! The problem is remembering to reset it.I reset my "B" trip counter to reflect the oil changes, so no math necessary (until I unplug the battery for some reason--like I did this time around to run a power cable for my under-seat sub).
Mobil 1 syn
2012 Outback 3.6
1st oil change at 3000 miles - Mobil 1 synthetic with Subaru filter
2nd oil change at 7500 miles - Mobile 1 synthetic Subaru filter
3rd oil change I plan for 15000 miles
I used this combination on my old cars and NEVER had engine problems with synthetic oil!! When you calculate the price it is not that expensive as you may think.
You can by 12 Subaru filters with gaskets for 3.6 Outback for $72.09 or for 2.5 Outback for $61.79 --> Subaru Online Parts
I always buy Mobil 1 Syn oil from Walmart as it is the cheapest for 26.99 +tax for 5 qt. For 3.6 you need 7 qt.
2012 Outback 3.6
1st oil change at 3000 miles - Mobil 1 synthetic with Subaru filter
2nd oil change at 7500 miles - Mobile 1 synthetic Subaru filter
3rd oil change I plan for 15000 miles
I used this combination on my old cars and NEVER had engine problems with synthetic oil!! When you calculate the price it is not that expensive as you may think.
You can by 12 Subaru filters with gaskets for 3.6 Outback for $72.09 or for 2.5 Outback for $61.79 --> Subaru Online Parts
I always buy Mobil 1 Syn oil from Walmart as it is the cheapest for 26.99 +tax for 5 qt. For 3.6 you need 7 qt.
Mobil 1
My 2013 2.5 is on order. I understand that 0-20 synthetic is recommended. There is a current sale of Mobil 1 here, but 0-20 is not included. 5W-20 and 5W-30 are available, can I use either of these and satisfy requirements? Thanks
My 2013 2.5 is on order. I understand that 0-20 synthetic is recommended. There is a current sale of Mobil 1 here, but 0-20 is not included. 5W-20 and 5W-30 are available, can I use either of these and satisfy requirements? Thanks
For warranty purposes, I would not.
It specs 0w20, use 0w20.
It specs 0w20, use 0w20.
oil consumption using Mobil1
I have a 2010 Outback 2.5 CVT with 32,000 miles and continue to see oil consumption such that I'm adding a quart at 4,000 miles so I can get to 7,500 miles before a change.
I don't abuse or baby this engine, primarily commuting over highway miles.
Anyone else seeing this issue with Mobil1? I'm wondering if I go with Dino oil if the oil consumption will stop.
I have a 2010 Outback 2.5 CVT with 32,000 miles and continue to see oil consumption such that I'm adding a quart at 4,000 miles so I can get to 7,500 miles before a change.
I don't abuse or baby this engine, primarily commuting over highway miles.
Anyone else seeing this issue with Mobil1? I'm wondering if I go with Dino oil if the oil consumption will stop.
I have almost 14k on my '12, and it has not used a drop, Mobil 1 since 1,100 miles.I have a 2010 Outback 2.5 CVT with 32,000 miles and continue to see oil consumption such that I'm adding a quart at 4,000 miles so I can get to 7,500 miles before a change.
I don't abuse or baby this engine, primarily commuting over highway miles.
Anyone else seeing this issue with Mobil1? I'm wondering if I go with Dino oil if the oil consumption will stop.
I will say that my BMW motorcycle, (Also a boxer) used oil until I tried Redline oil in it, on the advice of someone that had his oil consumption stop after an oil change with it. It went from a quart every 3k to maybe a half quart every 4k, when I went back to Mobil 1. Since then, I have used Redline about every 20-30k, for one change, and oil consumption has not increased. My theory is that it cleans the rings up, so that they seal better..........But what do I know?
Have you checked to see if your PCV valve is working?I have a 2010 Outback 2.5 CVT with 32,000 miles and continue to see oil consumption such that I'm adding a quart at 4,000 miles so I can get to 7,500 miles before a change.
I don't abuse or baby this engine, primarily commuting over highway miles.
Anyone else seeing this issue with Mobil1? I'm wondering if I go with Dino oil if the oil consumption will stop.
In a consumption situation, I'd probably run conventitional due to cost. I have a 2010 2.5i (45k miles) and it does not use a drop of oil. I changed to synthetic(Pennzoil Ultra) at 2000 miles and run 5000 mile intervals.
The 2013 Outback came from the factory with full synthetic, but I believe the 2010-2012 came with a blend or conventional oil. The 2013 has a 7500 mile oil change interval, but im not sure on the 2010-2012. I would say go Synthetic. Im considering doing my own oil changes to save on the cost or just letting the dealer do it given that the interval is longer. Autozone had a 5-6 qt container of Mobil 1 as well as Valvoline full syn for around $25-$30. The 2013 with the timing chain engine has the oil filter right on top like the 2012 Forester, so other than pulling the drain plug it should not be difficult. I believe with the ground clearance I dont even have to drive the car up on ramps! What I would say is anything that was created by the earth out of degraded plant matter is no match to engineered polymers made by nerds in a lab with black rimmed glasses and white tape holding them together
Timing chain: imperative to utilize the correct weight oil (0W) now given its affect on the timing chain system. I have utilized "German" Castrol 0W-20 with great success in the past :29:The 2013 Outback came from the factory with full synthetic, but I believe the 2010-2012 came with a blend or conventional oil. The 2013 has a 7500 mile oil change interval, but im not sure on the 2010-2012. I would say go Synthetic. Im considering doing my own oil changes to save on the cost or just letting the dealer do it given that the interval is longer. Autozone had a 5-6 qt container of Mobil 1 as well as Valvoline full syn for around $25-$30. The 2013 with the timing chain engine has the oil filter right on top like the 2012 Forester, so other than pulling the drain plug it should not be difficult. I believe with the ground clearance I dont even have to drive the car up on ramps! What I would say is anything that was created by the earth out of degraded plant matter is no match to engineered polymers made by nerds in a lab with black rimmed glasses and white tape holding them together
Drain plug: buy a Fumoto valve and call it a day. I've had them on every car I've owned for the past 5 years and have never had a single issue other than stupid clean oil drains with no mess
Ramps: don't need them! Possibly my favorite thing about the OB is that it literally takes 10-15 minutes to change the oil, with no ramps, and most of that time is letting it drain. With the FB design with the oil filter on top (SO much better than sandwiched between the exhaust like the pre-2013's), it should be a breeze!
A few important tips I haven't seen mentioned:
1. If you've been running a certain type (synthetic or conventional) for the majority of your car's life, and if your car is higher mileage, then stick with what you've been doing.
2. If you've been running a parafin-based oil for a long period of time, first of all, shame on you. Second of all, don't switch. Running another type of oil can "clean" out the deposits (yes, wax is literally deposited in your engine) and can make your go-cart a stop-cart.
3. If you have excessive leakage (generally on higher mileage Subarus), don't use synthetic. It won't hurt your engine, but synthetic leaks more. If you look at the molecules of synthetic vs non-synthetic under a microscope, you would see the synthetic molecules are smaller and more uniform than the conventional. Not only will your leaks be accelerated, but they will be costly leaks. What to do if you've been running synthetic for the life of the car? Hmmmm...maybe run a blend? Like Kendall.
4. I don't think (my personal opinion) that running more than 7500 miles between oil changes is a good idea. Even if the oil hasn't broken down, it's still a good idea to get under the hood and check things out. 7K+ miles is a lot! My buddy bought a Subie Legacy 5spd a few years back, had 20K miles on it, only had a few oil changes on it, had 8k miles since his last change, when his car quit. He called me up, I went to the scene, and I knew right away - he siezed the engine. The dipstick was bone dry! Now I realize you all are much, much more handy than that goober. (I probably could have told him he was out of blinker fluid and would have believed me.) But my main point is that with less miles between oil changes, it gives you more chances to catch potential problems.
In the end, there is supporting evidence for everything everyone has said, but not conclusive. When in doubt, stick to what the manufacturer says because they've likely done the most amount of testing for that specific grade/type on that specific engine.
1. If you've been running a certain type (synthetic or conventional) for the majority of your car's life, and if your car is higher mileage, then stick with what you've been doing.
2. If you've been running a parafin-based oil for a long period of time, first of all, shame on you. Second of all, don't switch. Running another type of oil can "clean" out the deposits (yes, wax is literally deposited in your engine) and can make your go-cart a stop-cart.
3. If you have excessive leakage (generally on higher mileage Subarus), don't use synthetic. It won't hurt your engine, but synthetic leaks more. If you look at the molecules of synthetic vs non-synthetic under a microscope, you would see the synthetic molecules are smaller and more uniform than the conventional. Not only will your leaks be accelerated, but they will be costly leaks. What to do if you've been running synthetic for the life of the car? Hmmmm...maybe run a blend? Like Kendall.
4. I don't think (my personal opinion) that running more than 7500 miles between oil changes is a good idea. Even if the oil hasn't broken down, it's still a good idea to get under the hood and check things out. 7K+ miles is a lot! My buddy bought a Subie Legacy 5spd a few years back, had 20K miles on it, only had a few oil changes on it, had 8k miles since his last change, when his car quit. He called me up, I went to the scene, and I knew right away - he siezed the engine. The dipstick was bone dry! Now I realize you all are much, much more handy than that goober. (I probably could have told him he was out of blinker fluid and would have believed me.) But my main point is that with less miles between oil changes, it gives you more chances to catch potential problems.
In the end, there is supporting evidence for everything everyone has said, but not conclusive. When in doubt, stick to what the manufacturer says because they've likely done the most amount of testing for that specific grade/type on that specific engine.
I've noticed that some people concerned with an additional expense associated with using full synthetic oil. One way to cut down synthetic oil cost you can reduce its cost by eliminating parasites - middlemen.
You can find your Amsoil local distribution center and open customer preferred account with an annual fee of $20. Then you can buy your oil at a wholesale, not retail price. For example, one quart of full synthetic Amsoil OE 5W-30 costs $6.10 but if you buy a pack of 12 then the price will be greatly reduced. You're saving even more if you buy advanced signature series of Amsoil which are more expensive in retail.
You can find your Amsoil local distribution center and open customer preferred account with an annual fee of $20. Then you can buy your oil at a wholesale, not retail price. For example, one quart of full synthetic Amsoil OE 5W-30 costs $6.10 but if you buy a pack of 12 then the price will be greatly reduced. You're saving even more if you buy advanced signature series of Amsoil which are more expensive in retail.
Im always leary about do it yourself on scheduled maintenance. Other than oil changes which appear to be easy what major things should a certified mechanic look at on the intervals if anything?
That would depend on what you feel comfortable doing. But my answer would be brakes for most people.Im always leary about do it yourself on scheduled maintenance. Other than oil changes which appear to be easy what major things should a certified mechanic look at on the intervals if anything?
I have been using synthetic oil since it first came out. The reason being, if I don't have a chance to change my oil at the "scheduled" next-change, no big deal. I could probably never change the oil and the vehicle would most likely be fine. So, sometimes, when I am too busy, I stretch it out to perhaps 9,000 miles or so. When I notice that my wife's car is 4,000 miles overdue for an oil change, it doesn't bother me. When I get to it, I will change her oil. Who cares if she went 12,000 miles between changes?
Her car has 122,000 miles on it and doesn't use any oil in about 5,000 miles. I don't even bother to check it, as it is always full. The same for my work truck. I broke them both in with conventional oil then at around 8,000 miles, I started full synthetic 5W-30. I buy the store brand which costs me about $4.49 per quart.
I run full synthetic in everything, my two lawnmowers, my snowblower, etc. After 40 hours of mowing with my lawn tractor, the oil still looks like new!
Her car has 122,000 miles on it and doesn't use any oil in about 5,000 miles. I don't even bother to check it, as it is always full. The same for my work truck. I broke them both in with conventional oil then at around 8,000 miles, I started full synthetic 5W-30. I buy the store brand which costs me about $4.49 per quart.
I run full synthetic in everything, my two lawnmowers, my snowblower, etc. After 40 hours of mowing with my lawn tractor, the oil still looks like new!
Good point. I have been an Amsoil dealer for over 20 years and typically do extended change intervals. However, as a previous poster said, the 7500 mile interval keeps more involved in what's going on under the hood.I've noticed that some people concerned with an additional expense associated with using full synthetic oil. One way to cut down synthetic oil cost you can reduce its cost by eliminating parasites - middlemen.
You can find your Amsoil local distribution center and open customer preferred account with an annual fee of $20. Then you can buy your oil at a wholesale, not retail price. For example, one quart of full synthetic Amsoil OE 5W-30 costs $6.10 but if you buy a pack of 12 then the price will be greatly reduced. You're saving even more if you buy advanced signature series of Amsoil which are more expensive in retail.
From reading over at Bob is the Oil Guy, it seems there are plenty of guys who seem to think that modern conventional is more than adequate unless you really plan to push your interval. It seems the Blackstone reports seem to support that as well.
Personally I'll probably stick to synthetic, unless there is a killer deal to be had on some conventional or blend. The 3.6 doesn't "require" syn, so I guess I could go either way. My Civic is nearing 200k using whatever bulk conventional the shop I went to had with me adding some Formula Shell periodically because it leaks a bit over the past year.
I don't currently do my own changes, but I plan to do my first DIY change on the Civic (aka the test mule) in the next couple weeks, and acquiring some stands and a floor jack to be able to do rotations. Basically I am sick of waiting over an hour for my car to get its oil changed and move the tires around, so I'll just invest in the equipment to do it myself. If it is fluid related, I think I'll be doing it myself on the OB once I show myself it isn't rocket science. Maybe do brakes if I can snag someone to watch and make sure I don't screw it up. Slowly build the DIY confidence and maybe start tackling some projects that can really save me some money.
Personally I'll probably stick to synthetic, unless there is a killer deal to be had on some conventional or blend. The 3.6 doesn't "require" syn, so I guess I could go either way. My Civic is nearing 200k using whatever bulk conventional the shop I went to had with me adding some Formula Shell periodically because it leaks a bit over the past year.
I don't currently do my own changes, but I plan to do my first DIY change on the Civic (aka the test mule) in the next couple weeks, and acquiring some stands and a floor jack to be able to do rotations. Basically I am sick of waiting over an hour for my car to get its oil changed and move the tires around, so I'll just invest in the equipment to do it myself. If it is fluid related, I think I'll be doing it myself on the OB once I show myself it isn't rocket science. Maybe do brakes if I can snag someone to watch and make sure I don't screw it up. Slowly build the DIY confidence and maybe start tackling some projects that can really save me some money.
Well, I will follow the Subaru owners manual. Synthetic at 3k then 7500 and at intervals of 7500 from then on. I am surprised I am hearing that Subaru can burn a quart in 4k miles. I have not owned a car that burned that much oil in decades. I did have a car that I put about 60k on using conventional oil, switched to synthetic and the eng started leaking oil all over. Went back to conventional on that car. Every thing else I use synthetic. Also agree that you need to look around that engine bay relatively often. I do it every time I wash the car. I just wipe everything down in the engine bay.
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