[x.Tubaru]

I’ll agree that yes, I do like the aesthetics of the Onyx best, but it wasn’t the primary reason I chose it. For me it was the Startex. I have dogs - didn’t want cloth and won’t do leather. It was the perfect solution and the blacked out trim, dual X Mode and wheels on it were just all just bonuses. Startex should be made available across the whole line IMO.

Startex and(finally) comfortable seating position, improved ride and road manners.
80 more horses plus generous trade value made it a no brainer. 4 years newer and going from a premium to an Onyx trim for $100.00 per month less?
Yup...no brainer!!

 

[PilotXT]

StarTex was hot today in the 94F heat and sun. I might have to remote start in the summer.

 

[markmizzou]

I really have to ask - - I thought the wilderness was for (designed for more serious off roading) - You need cool seats?? to off road? Huh? I will let you take it from here.

 

[x.Tubaru]

Thank you! Local dealer unwilling to discount on Wilderness. Anyone else having any luck?

Not only unwilling to discount, but the price lock i was offered when I ordered last week excluded the Wilderness.
With all the advertising and blogs drooling over the Wilderness, it has ppl lining up just to see one in person.
Next year when buyers discover the lower final drive ratio doesn't yield the mileage the Onyx does. Occasional off roaders will be ready to trade for another model XT.
That's the very reason that I passed on it, beside the increase in price over the Onyx.

 

[outback2016]

Not only unwilling to discount, but the price lock i was offered when I ordered last week excluded the Wilderness.
With all the advertising and blogs drooling over the Wilderness, it has ppl lining up just to see one in person.
Next year when buyers discover the lower final drive ratio doesn't yield the mileage the Onyx does. Occasional off roaders will be ready to trade for another model XT.
That's the very reason that I passed on it, beside the increase in price over the Onyx.

Yup, never completely understood how people get so hot on a car they have never seen in person or driven. Wait til it lands then judge. Judging on paper is dangerous. A lot of time the fantasy does not live up to reality...

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Patsarge]

Lets get real about off roading. There is no serious off roading that any subaru can do. Its a great car with maybe the best all wheel drive but really lacks the ground clearance to the body and drive train to do anything serious. For the snow or exploring some desert roads it might be the best road car built but nothing serious. no one is going to put an XT or wilderness out deer hunting or down an overgrown trail with greasewood or manzanita squealing as it peels the paint off with desert pinstiriping. There are no 3/16 steel body panels or rocker guards much less real undercarriage skid plates. No ability or place for high lif jacks to be carried or used. If you want off road, then fuel cost is not a real consideration for a dozen reasons including friction of larger tires as well as weight added for additional armor and increased drag for every inch lifted and aerodynamic loss due to turbulance under and around the lifted vehicle. I want my wife and family to be safe and have advantages over other all wheel drives for snow, desert roads, long rutted driveways in winter and just flat going out fishing. Leave that to your Toyotas, Rubicons or Powerwagons with tranfercases, armor, lockers, lifts, and large tires. Im not ragging on the Subarus as we have had 4 in the last 10 years, ordered a Wilderness, and think they are absolutely great for their purpose. If you want to push the limits dont look for our outback or wilderness. I will dust off the 12mpg PowerWagon check all the recovery and rescue gear and if you are not too far maybe come and pull out whats left of your Subaru. All have a designed purpose. We love our Subaru too much to just abuse it.

 

[lurchskii]

For me the advantage of the Wilderness over the onyx is 2 fold. I have ordered my Wilderness and will be selling my 21 Onyx.

1st is the roof rack, the stock rack on the onyx is not very user friendly in my opinion.Yes you can buy a Thule or Yakima rail system to replace the stock cross bars and that works fine for most application, in my case I am looking at putting a Hard Shell tent on top. It's been done but for me its causes the tent to sit to high about 4"+, and the weak link in those racks is the way they attach to the stock rails which are plastic. The dynamic load rating for the Onyx is 165lbs , cross bars are rated at 150 lbs, (could not fine the static load rating but I read 220 lbs). The Wilderness dynamic load is 220 lbs and static load is 700 lbs. I am building custom roof cross rails that are only 1" high from extruded "T" channel Aluminum that way my tent will be supported by the roof rack, it's going to cost me less than $200 for all of the pieces and hardware. I want the tent to be solid and with very little flexing due to bouncing down crappy roads.

2nd the X-Mode, the Wilderness's X-Mode will not disengage when you exceed 25 MPH in the snow and Mud mode. Before if you were spinning your tires and the wheel speed exceeded 25MPH the X-mode would disengage. That's not good if you are in mud or snow.

My intent is to use the Outback for short off-road trips 1-3 days where I would usually take my Colorado ZR2, because I can not store my truck with tent attached in my garage due to the door height. Where as the Outback with tent will clear by and inch, even after I change out the springs and add 245/65 R17 Falkens Wildpeak AT3W tires. For longer extended trips the ZR2 is by far the better options due to the crazy places I tend to wander to.

In my case the Wilderness makes sense, but each person has different needs and intent, just mall crawling would not make any sense in buying one.

 

[x.Tubaru]

Not to mention to trade in a 2021 Onyx for a Wilderness makes no sense to me. The delta feature/function is not enough. Even if you get good money for your trade, you will pay top dollar for the Wilderness.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I expect them to be available with low miles next year at dealership lots.
4.44:1 vs 4.11:1?
Anyone hear the EPA milage rating yet?

Yup, never completely understood how people get so hot on a car they have never seen in person or driven. Wait til it lands then judge. Judging on paper is dangerous. A lot of time the fantasy does not live up to reality...

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

That's why I've been married twice too 🤣. Didnt measure up to the promises.

 

[walker]

From the press release…

“The 2.4-liter turbo achieves an EPA rated 22 city/26 highway”

 

[SilverOnyx]

There are no 3/16 steel body panels or rocker guards much less real undercarriage skid plates. No ability or place for high lift jacks to be carried or used.

I'm curious are there any cars with 3/16 steel body panels? That sounds amazingly thick and heavy. @scalman made his Gen3 vehicle capable of using a high lift jack but it was extensively modified for it. DIY : Hi-Lift Jack to lift subaru

You're right that a unibody Subaru isn't going to be as tough and capable as a 4x4 locking differential with lo-range body on frame or an M1 Abrams tank. There will always be a vehicle that's more rugged or more capable and you just need to select the car that fits your performance envelope.

(longer version)

 

[Justin//M2C]

Not only unwilling to discount, but the price lock i was offered when I ordered last week excluded the Wilderness.
With all the advertising and blogs drooling over the Wilderness, it has ppl lining up just to see one in person.
Next year when buyers discover the lower final drive ratio doesn't yield the mileage the Onyx does. Occasional off roaders will be ready to trade for another model XT.
That's the very reason that I passed on it, beside the increase in price over the Onyx.

Yeah it's a Subaru. I'm not paying MSRP let alone over MSRP.

When the BMW G87 lands, though, I'll pay MSRP.

 

[lidksmy]

I learned a long time ago, and painfully so, an item is worth what someone is willing to pay.

If people are willing to pay MSRP or MSRP+ then guess what, if someone wants a Wilderness, that is what they will have to pay.

 

[Patsarge]

I'm curious are there any cars with 3/16 steel body panels? That sounds amazingly thick and heavy. @scalman made his Gen3 vehicle capable of using a high lift jack but it was extensively modified for it. DIY : Hi-Lift Jack to lift subaru

You're right that a unibody Subaru isn't going to be as tough and capable as a 4x4 locking differential with lo-range body on frame or an M1 Abrams tank. There will always be a vehicle that's more rugged or more capable and you just need to select the car that fits your performance envelope.

(longer version)

My rubicon had 3/16 quarter panels and the same for front fenders. Most of the bottom was the same on skid plates and the long arm suspension was mounted to a a central skidplate of 3/16 to 1/4 steel all by poison spyder and rubicon express. Typical of hard rock wheelers.

 

[LT2020]

I'm considering a quick flip to the Wilderness too. Bought a 2020 loaded Limited for almost 5k under MSRP back in August, so figure a flip may work out OK on the $ front. I'm leaning towards regret in not getting the Onyx, based on a couple of long road trips and dirt track driving to trail heads around the Southwest. Why? Mileage on my Limited blows, unless I'm super gentle on the throttle, getting nowhere near what I should...maybe 26 highway, 22 town, with nothing more than a cargo basket on the roof. Lack of a full size spare blows when you get a blowout in the middle of a remote national park (yup, it happened, but also yup I realize I can add a full size spare). That said, I'm yet to determine if the Wilderness comes with HK stereo, which was one of the reasons I dodged the Onyx XT. I think the Wilderness looks great, and I dig the Onyx too. Of course maybe I pick up a 2022 Onyx instead...is a stereo upgrade planned for that does anyone know?

 

[.537073]

That said, I'm yet to determine if the Wilderness comes with HK stereo, which was one of the reasons I dodged the Onyx XT.

The Onyx has a Rockford Fosgate dealer installed option.

 

[LT2020]

True, still well inferior to the HK in my opinion and I wanted it factory fitted, not dealer fitted. We all have our quirks, right?

 

[.537073]

I was quite disappointed to learn it isn't port installed.

 

[SilverOnyx]

It seems if you want an all OEM solution the HK is clearly the best.

The Rockford Fosgate upgrade is possibly equivalent (not the same but also good) if you add Subaru Kicker tweeters.

Even better than both above would be to get an external DSP amp (like Kicker KEY 200.4) to undo the internal DSP of the head units and present a clean signal to aftermarket speakers. We can do that with the Onyx system (without RF) but if you have the HK system then it's not clear that anyone has been successful in doing that.

 

[Scoobs]

I'm considering a quick flip to the Wilderness too. Bought a 2020 loaded Limited for almost 5k under MSRP back in August, so figure a flip may work out OK on the $ front. I'm leaning towards regret in not getting the Onyx, based on a couple of long road trips and dirt track driving to trail heads around the Southwest. Why? Mileage on my Limited blows, unless I'm super gentle on the throttle, getting nowhere near what I should...maybe 26 highway, 22 town, with nothing more than a cargo basket on the roof. Lack of a full size spare blows when you get a blowout in the middle of a remote national park (yup, it happened, but also yup I realize I can add a full size spare). That said, I'm yet to determine if the Wilderness comes with HK stereo, which was one of the reasons I dodged the Onyx XT. I think the Wilderness looks great, and I dig the Onyx too. Of course maybe I pick up a 2022 Onyx instead...is a stereo upgrade planned for that does anyone know?

The Wilderness builds off of the Onyx XT, simply going a step further in the off-road/rugged direction. Do not expect any luxury (HK audio, heated steering wheel, heated/cooled seats, etc.) features that the Onyx doesn't have.

 

[LT2020]

It seems if you want an all OEM solution the HK is clearly the best.

The Rockford Fosgate upgrade is possibly equivalent (not the same but also good) if you add Subaru Kicker tweeters.

Even better than both above would be to get an external DSP amp (like Kicker KEY 200.4) to undo the internal DSP of the head units and present a clean signal to aftermarket speakers. We can do that with the Onyx system (without RF) but if you have the HK system then it's not clear that anyone has been successful in doing that.

The Wilderness builds off of the Onyx XT, simply going a step further in the off-road/rugged direction. Do not expect any luxury (HK audio, heated steering wheel, heated/cooled seats, etc.) features that the Onyx doesn't have.

Fair point, well made. And so, once again, we are reminded of the dilemmas of our existence.