Subaru Outback Forums banner

41 - 60 of 92 Posts

·
Registered
2005 Outback 3.0R VDC/VTD/LSD 5eat , 2.8'' lift
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
and why my engine doesnt able to reach that ? maybe i need cable and other program not via bluetooth. still i dont like how it drives today after i messed up with those injectors its changed from yesterday. so hmm is there any point to put there some other used injector , or new ones on those 246 cyls. because petrol gives me 2 and 4 cyl missfire and LPG gives 2 and 6 cyl missifire so it takes that 6 cyl somehow, but as i remember my lpg injector that was bad was not on cyl 6 but on 3 . so im little lost here.
and how and why that error just goes away itself one second its appear then its gone at least lights goes away , depends from what load and how much rev engine uses, sometimes it lights up on iddle revs sometimes when driving then after seconds lights gone, then t hey appear again , sometimes when i want to reset errors they not reseting just staying there .... hmmm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,847 Posts
and why my engine doesnt able to reach that ? maybe i need cable and other program not via bluetooth.
No, I don't think the bluetooth connection would affect how far the throttle opens.

Try this. With the ignition at ON (engine Off), and the Torque app reading the ECM, watch/record the Throttle % as the accelerator pedal is slowly pushed down to the floor.

I don't know how the H6 works, and what to expect, especially if your 2005 H6 is a European Market version -- it could be different from my USDM H4. But, when I do this here's the result:
485402


The total time is about 60 seconds. As the Accelerator % is pressed down and crosses 30% (20 seconds), the throttle position jumps up to 100%. This is only when the engine is off, but it helps to confirm that the ECM is controlling the throttle through its full range. The accelerator pedal was held at 100% (at the floor), for two seconds and then slowly released. The throttle remains at 100% until the accelerator position drops back below 30%, at which point it falls back. Does yours do the same, or something close to this? Does the throttle ever get to 100%?
 

·
Registered
2005 Outback 3.0R VDC/VTD/LSD 5eat , 2.8'' lift
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
Discussion Starter #43 (Edited)
@plain OM Hmm i cant make those graphs as you i think i tried eith ignition on. So when i didint touched pedal throttle was allready at 14% and then i pushed it to floor and it went up to 80% but not more.
But thats throttle not pedal position. I have pedal position just on cars screen i think. Or i need to dig more into that app and search for other options there. But i did it now fast not slowly as you said

That raw data screen didint showed any reaction to pedal just showed throttle at 14% . Guess it just works with engine on.
But why throttle at 14% when nothing is touched , and goes just up to 80%
Could it be bad throttle position sensor?
Wonder symptoms bad throttle position sensor gives.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,847 Posts
But why throttle at 14% when nothing is touched ,
I don't have an H6 to compare. But the throttle plate on these drive-by-wire cars, as far as I know, never closes totally. The default, mechanical resting position is somewhere around 8% off fully closed. (I'm using my 07, 2.5 information; the H6 might have different numbers, but the idea would likely be the same.)

When the ignition is turned to On (engine not started), the ECM moves the plate to a opening needed to enable engine to start, given the ambient conditions (e.g., engine coolant temperature). In my experience, this is somewhere around 12%. That's probably your 14%.

When the ignition is then turned Off, the ECM will swing the throttle plate to the zero % position, then back up to around 50%, and finally settle back at the default mechanical rest position.

Here's a graphical representation:
485459


and goes just up to 80%
Could it be bad throttle position sensor?
I was thinking of that possibility, but . . .
The ECM sets a "target" position, the duty cycle signal that drives the throttle motor is set by the ECM in accordance with the "target", and the throttle position sensor (TPS) then tells the ECM exactly where the throttle plate is. The "target" and the actual TPS % should agree. If there's a significant difference, that should set a trouble code.

But all this is based on the way my USDM, 07, 2.5, non-turbo seems to work. We really need someone with a 3rd gen. H6 to look at the throttle position % using the same "ignition on, engine off" test to see if the throttle does go to 100% when the pedal is all the way down.
 

·
Registered
2005 Outback 3.0R VDC/VTD/LSD 5eat , 2.8'' lift
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
Discussion Starter #45
Makes sense if something there not agree one with another then there is conflict somewhere.
And i think that VDC can kill engine on any throttle position if it feels like or tell to ecm i duno how it works there but VDC can just kill all your torque if it will see it and decides that is needed.
Im thinking all day now about this would be nice to find some more info about how those models 3.0 vdc should work
When i accelerate with car on parking it raises revs kinda ok just limiting them to 4-5k rpm but it like raises ok not like strugling so you could think all good with engine it revs, but then you start driving and story changes...why is that, normaly i would say ohh bad spark or bad fuel injection but with this deal now i just dont know anymore. Fuel pump strugling or clogged its filter?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,847 Posts
@cardoc

Any chance there might be a 3rd gen Legacy or Outback with H6 on the lot that you could do a KOEO accelerator-throttle test?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,847 Posts
My Outback R is 2005, 3.0R engine.
What are you wanting?
Key On, Engine Off. Monitor accelerator and throttle positions. Advance the pedal. Watch the throttle to see if it goes to 100% either while the pedal is being advanced, or when the pedal reaches 100% (the floor).

@scalman 's throttle doesn't reach 100% even in this test. Trying to figure out if this is the way the H6 work. On my 07 2.5, it certainly goes to 100%. See my post #42 above.

Tnx
 

·
Premium Member
2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
Joined
·
14,057 Posts
Driving with the pedal on the floor it goes to 82.5% as it accelerates.

romraider still is not working and blue driver does not give me accelerator pedal position. I don't have my Autel with me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,847 Posts
Okay, so KOEoff, the throttle position % does not go beyond 81% and similar when driving. That's consistent with what @scalman has observed. It's seems to be normal in the H6 (as opposed to the H4).

Many thanks!
 

·
Premium Member
2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
Joined
·
14,057 Posts
Maybe @west_minist can clarify the TPS operation in relation to APP. All of the H6 Subies he tunes are DBW. So if the throttle plate is capable of opening beyond 81%, he'll know.

I've not gotten in to the ROM on an R engine yet.
 

·
Registered
2005 Outback VDC limited 3.0r
Joined
·
777 Posts
Maybe @west_minist can clarify the TPS operation in relation to APP. All of the H6 Subies he tunes are DBW. So if the throttle plate is capable of opening beyond 81%, he'll know.

I've not gotten in to the ROM on an R engine yet.
My tuned 3.0r does indeed go to 100 percent. Just checked one of the logs I sent him, app gets to like 97. You REALLY have to push the pedal to read the full 100, i know when i drive it, i don't always completely floor it.
 

·
Registered
2005 Outback 3.0R VDC/VTD/LSD 5eat , 2.8'' lift
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
Discussion Starter #55
My tuned 3.0r does indeed go to 100 percent. Just checked one of the logs I sent him, app gets to like 97. You REALLY have to push the pedal to read the full 100, i know when i drive it, i don't always completely floor it.
How itd tuned ? Reflashed with custom rom? How does it changes feeling of pulling out, i know my problem somewhere else but would be nice to know that info as well.

So in general it kinda cant be injectors or petrol in all because on lpg it doesnt use petrol injectors its got its own injectors and i still getting those 2 and 6 cyl missfires so 2 comes with petrol too but 6 comes with lpg only. Or its coincidence that on same 2 cyl lpg is bad too.

Can do example i drove yesterday after work some and well when i got to 90km/h with errors i reseted them on go and while keeping same speed no rev up and down errors didint came up i even switched to lpg and drove most distance on lpg without errors poping in. Though on lpg it works badly on low revs on high speed its kinda goes ok, so hmm what happens on low speed low revs that not happening on higher constant speed, why then errors can not pop in on random ?
I will fix lpg problem but for now its no point until it doesnt work on petrol well.
Maybe ecm just messed up with all those resetings i do everyday and with that weird petrol mix with all kinda injector cleaners? Because first time i used that cleaner in petrol it become like throwing other error about too rich or too lean fuel mix and now when i back to just petrol its messed up dont know whats normal? Then again should it just adapt to what it gets and makes that fuel mix acording to situation.
 

·
Registered
2005 Outback VDC limited 3.0r
Joined
·
777 Posts
How itd tuned ? Reflashed with custom rom? How does it changes feeling of pulling out, i know my problem somewhere else but would be nice to know that info as well.

So in general it kinda cant be injectors or petrol in all because on lpg it doesnt use petrol injectors its got its own injectors and i still getting those 2 and 6 cyl missfires so 2 comes with petrol too but 6 comes with lpg only. Or its coincidence that on same 2 cyl lpg is bad too.

Can do example i drove yesterday after work some and well when i got to 90km/h with errors i reseted them on go and while keeping same speed no rev up and down errors didint came up i even switched to lpg and drove most distance on lpg without errors poping in. Though on lpg it works badly on low revs on high speed its kinda goes ok, so hmm what happens on low speed low revs that not happening on higher constant speed, why then errors can not pop in on random ?
I will fix lpg problem but for now its no point until it doesnt work on petrol well.
Maybe ecm just messed up with all those resetings i do everyday and with that weird petrol mix with all kinda injector cleaners? Because first time i used that cleaner in petrol it become like throwing other error about too rich or too lean fuel mix and now when i back to just petrol its messed up dont know whats normal? Then again should it just adapt to what it gets and makes that fuel mix acording to situation.
Tuning made it more responsive and less pinging, so healthier for the engine mainly. The cars likes to start out in 2nd, and definitely has delay when accelerating. Really bad when stock. Indecisive with the 5eat compared to my 4eat in my old 95. Floor it and takes 3 seconds to decide which gear.
 

·
Registered
2005 Outback 3.0R VDC/VTD/LSD 5eat , 2.8'' lift
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
Discussion Starter #57
what kind of tuning ?
 

·
Registered
2005 Outback 3.0R VDC/VTD/LSD 5eat , 2.8'' lift
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
Discussion Starter #59
Should i just buy openport 2.0 cable and use it on some laptop with freessm, romraider or btssm app on adroid with those i would get proper and more info for my problems. And will have tools for flashing/tuning if later i would decide.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
Joined
·
14,057 Posts
Yes.

Rom Raider and the other diagnostic software will work with a VAG-Com 409.1 cable. Same as the one used for Skoda/VW. You won't be able to flash with it. That's where the Openport cable comes in.
 
41 - 60 of 92 Posts
Top