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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Discussion Starter #41
You just need to make sure the scan tool is showing the proper values.

Tactrix has a Subaru only cable and will cost about 150. The RomRaider is free. Just download it and then the definitions at the bottom of the thread. Save the definitions in the same folder as RomRaider because that is where the software will be looking for it.
 

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I wonder if the VAG-COM KKL cable will work with the car. It does with my 07, and also with a 2008 and 2004, as reported in the FreeSSM thread. Far less expensive than the Tactrix, although it also probably doesn't have the wider range of applications that the Tactrix has. But just for scanning with the programs, perhaps . . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #43
It works with the RomRaider?

Tactrix is designed to work specifically for Subaru and Mitsubishi. I've never used FreeSSM or the VAG-COM adapters. The only time I've used anything that had software available for my laptop is what I use now. I know it works with a variety of year models. Otherwise, its the EVO or one of the two smaller Actrons. The Actrons allow quick code pulling or I use them for watching monitor setting while I drive. They both also show basic live data, just not graphing.

I also have a App on my phone, Log Works, that works with the Innovate OT-2 that I can set up to watch different sensors. This App will also graph the data and save it. The App was free through Innovate Motorsport and has other options built in such as fuel consumption calculator and dyno function. The OT-2 works with all vehicles so it can be swapped from car to car and communicates wireless to the iPhone.

Anyone interested can check it on Innovate Motorsports OT-2 - Transform your iPhone or iPod into a wireless gauge, data logger, dyno, efficiency meter and OBDII scan tool.
 

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It works with the RomRaider?
Yes. The VAG COM cable works with RomRaider, although I don't know that the applicable range (model years, engine models etc) is unlimited. But it looks as if it's fine for reading and logging data with 2nd and 3rd generation Outbacks (~2000 -- 2009). (In part, the coverage also depends on the software program; both FreeSSM and RomRaider have limits as to which Model Years and/or ECM's, they can access.)

For the average person just wanting to read/log data, and not necessarily make mods to the engine control software (which I believe the Tactrix is designed for), the VAG COM adapter seems to be a low cost alternative. The VAG COM 409.1 KKL adapter cables have been available on eBay, usually for less than $20.
 

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Cardoc,
My 0420 typically comes up when I accelerated hard during first 10 minutes and Torque saw indicated sensor transition time too slow. Rear O2 has been replace, wonder I should replace the front A/F one?

Freeze frame report generated by Torque for Android
=========================================================

Vehicle VIN: Not present
Vehicle Manufacturer: Unknown
Vehicle Calibration ID: DUH1GM0C

Freeze frame information:
------------------
Fuel Status = 0 byte
Engine Load = 23.137 %
Engine Coolant Temperature = 83 °C
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Short Term = 3.906 %
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Long Term = -5.469 %
Intake Manifold Pressure = 7.687 psi
Engine RPM = 3,112.5 rpm
Speed (OBD) = 70.836 mph

End of report.
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Discussion Starter #46
LTFT shows the computer reducing the fuel which means the engine isn't burning the fuel efficiently. The ECM uses the front and rear sensor values to calculate the trim, so if the rear one is new you know it's getting good feedback from one of the sensors.

Temp is good, load is good for the speed.

What year is this engine? SOHC or DOHC? When was the last time you replaced the plugs? Where do you buy your fuel?

Before condemning a AF sensor, I would have to see a waveform data stream of that sensor. What scan tool or software are you using? The waveform would also tell what the engine is doing. Can you do a waveform or post a shot of the same values above at idle after the engine is warmed up and include the rear O2 data? Maybe post a video of the screen at idle then with the engine revved to 2700 or so. If you do the video of the waveform patterns, LTFT, STFT, AF Sensor, O2 Sensor, MAF, MAP, ECT and RPM.

I am leaning to ignition but would need to have the data as listed above to be sure.
 

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Car had 00 SOHC EJ251 threw the same code with 185K on it , replaced with a 99 EJ253 110k rebuild top end with new 6 star MLS HG, all belts, idlers, tensioner, seals, clutch, wires/plugs. Always use top tier gas Shell or Chevron.
Before swap engine, pass smog with flying colors so I know the cat is good. Let me see if I can video and post on YouTube. MPG is 27 so I don't think A/F sensor is bad and it fluctuates more when cold the flats out when warm with close loop.
 

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Before the code came up, I popped in a bottle of Red Line fuel cleaner in the gas tank. The plugs are NGK iridium with 6 heat range since I drive 95% freeway. I use Torque SW with blue tooth ELM327 OBD2 adapter.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
I've never used Red Line. Sea Foam I know cleans out the fuel system. Had a 92 300Z twin turbo. Low mileage, never driven that was blowing 750 HCs. We replaced the plugs with colder plugs, cleaned injectors, tweeked the piggy back to pull trim down and it only came down to about 650. It had a half tank, put in a 12 oz bottle of Sea Foam, drove it for 25 miles with the last 5 at high rpm. HC came down to 75.
 

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You suggest to seafoam it? The intake manifold is original with 185k on it. I so just cleaned the throttle body last week.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
I didn't get video. It was a long, busy day and this one came in on the later side.

2002 LGT with 137k miles. P0420. No other codes. Battery checked good, conductance good, alternator working proper. AF and Oxygen sensors both working proper. Thermostat working and temperature was fluctuating between 193-205 sitting in the bay.

I heard detonation when I pulled it around the shop and in. Indication one is poor fuel delivery or too lean. No vacuum leaks and MAP was sending the proper measure. Engine load at idle was 1.6. LTFT was at +9-11 at idle and +7-15 at higher rpms. STFT was all over the place. Rear O2 sensor was flat lining and waving and the waveform wasn't due to the ECM testing. It was too sporadic, almost like the CAT couldn't hold Oxygen and wasn't heating up then it would change and it was almost like it was overheating. There was no indication of restriction in the CATs. The CAT is failing. Both have already been replaced with aftermarkets that were welded in. Possibly the incorrect CATs for the car or someone replaced the CATs without locating the originating issue that caused the failure. (I opt for the latter) So, I start hunting.

I pulled the fuel filter and it seemed a bit restricted. I installed a new one and went back to the data. Small change to the trims, but still high and the rear O2 is still showing a failing CAT. I checked fuel pressure and its low. Pulled the vacuum from the regulator and it increased, and the O2 showed a difference.

I pulled the fuel pump. All connections good, seals good, screen was clean. The pump can't supply the flow and pressure needed, so new pump.

Before resetting the ECM, I looked at the data again. After it warmed up, the O2 sensor data leveled out, LTFT came down and the engine started running smoother. Idle trim was at 5, higher rpm came down to avg -1.5. STFT 0.

I still believe the CATs may be an issue. There is a lot of carbon in the exhaust and I don't know how long its been detonating. I poured in about 10-15 oz of Sea Foam into the tank to clean the fuel system and told the owner he may still need the CATs but since its borderline and the data changed with the new pump, running cleaner combustion may extend replacement or negate it. It needs a good long run on the highway.

The car may need other things to make it even better. When I have more time with the car, I can go over it more thoroughly. I don't know what kind of maintenance its had and where it is on the schedule, but the issue at hand, cat efficiency, was altered with a fuel pump that provided enough flow.
 

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2002 L.L. Bean Outback H6 3.0
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I had the 420 code for the last two months. Light would come on and go off. I had to replace the upstream o2 sensors last year (185,000 miles).
I replaced the down stream o2 sensor and the code is gone, no more CEL light. The idiot at Advance Auto was telling me that I needed a can of SeaFoam, and that would clear the 420 code. According to him, I was wasting my money on the o2 sensor, and I would be back to buy the SeaFoam. I've been turning wrenches for 30 years, and I have yet to open a can of SeaFoam. I just don't get the point of the stuff (SeaFoam), but maybe that is just me.
 

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They are not idiots - in fact I respect their approach. Try the simple, inexpensive first, then graduate to the hard parts.

There are dozens of reasons for the Cat Eff code. If you've done your homework and know exactly what to zero in on, terrific. Most people have no idea, and come here looking for a plan of attack. For those that have access to tools that allow them to view a live data stream, diagnostics is more straight forward. For those that don't we suggest the simple/economical first.
 

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Scan tool showed data from the downstream o2 was all over the place. Pretty clear, this o2 has a design life of 100,000 miles. The car has 202,000 miles out with the original down stream sensor. How anyone can suggest SeaFoam would cure the problem is a little nuts to me.
 

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You were talking to a clerk who didn't have access to your data and understanding. Why are you surprised?
 

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I didn't get video. It was a long, busy day and this one came in on the later side.

2002 LGT with 137k miles. P0420. No other codes. Battery checked good, conductance good, alternator working proper. AF and Oxygen sensors both working proper. Thermostat working and temperature was fluctuating between 193-205 sitting in the bay.

I heard detonation when I pulled it around the shop and in. Indication one is poor fuel delivery or too lean. No vacuum leaks and MAP was sending the proper measure. Engine load at idle was 1.6. LTFT was at +9-11 at idle and +7-15 at higher rpms. STFT was all over the place. Rear O2 sensor was flat lining and waving and the waveform wasn't due to the ECM testing. It was too sporadic, almost like the CAT couldn't hold Oxygen and wasn't heating up then it would change and it was almost like it was overheating. There was no indication of restriction in the CATs. The CAT is failing. Both have already been replaced with aftermarkets that were welded in. Possibly the incorrect CATs for the car or someone replaced the CATs without locating the originating issue that caused the failure. (I opt for the latter) So, I start hunting.

I pulled the fuel filter and it seemed a bit restricted. I installed a new one and went back to the data. Small change to the trims, but still high and the rear O2 is still showing a failing CAT. I checked fuel pressure and its low. Pulled the vacuum from the regulator and it increased, and the O2 showed a difference.

I pulled the fuel pump. All connections good, seals good, screen was clean. The pump can't supply the flow and pressure needed, so new pump.

Before resetting the ECM, I looked at the data again. After it warmed up, the O2 sensor data leveled out, LTFT came down and the engine started running smoother. Idle trim was at 5, higher rpm came down to avg -1.5. STFT 0.

I still believe the CATs may be an issue. There is a lot of carbon in the exhaust and I don't know how long its been detonating. I poured in about 10-15 oz of Sea Foam into the tank to clean the fuel system and told the owner he may still need the CATs but since its borderline and the data changed with the new pump, running cleaner combustion may extend replacement or negate it. It needs a good long run on the highway.

The car may need other things to make it even better. When I have more time with the car, I can go over it more thoroughly. I don't know what kind of maintenance its had and where it is on the schedule, but the issue at hand, cat efficiency, was altered with a fuel pump that provided enough flow.
Cardoc I have been following your posts concerning po420 codes, and to not keep repeating things what is your take on after market Cats? I have one on the passenger side which has been welded in recently. bought the car 3 months ago 139k supposedly all work done to it. so far what was stated checked out. CEL came on was cleared, car driven, and passed NYS inspection. After about 100 miles light came back on. My friend owns a shop and uses similar diagnostic tools as you have shown in this forum. Results were Bank 1 sensor 1. So we changed the AF sensor. Cleared code and same result, although at idle the car seemed to want to stall? Anyway CEL returned and I have tried to follow your checklist to eliminate possible culprits. I am going to try replacing the O2 sensor after the CAT or do you think it is the aftermarket CAT? When I replaced the AF sensor it was showing coloration of running lean. It was a Bosch plug with California emisssions. I know you are busy but I would appreciate your thoughts.

-Chad
 

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You were talking to a clerk who didn't have access to your data and understanding. Why are you surprised?
Why? Because I told him all I've told you,and more and he still pushed the SeaFoam and made it out like I was the one who did not know what I was talking about. FWIW, it was the O2 sensor, all SeaFoam would have done is remove money from my wallet and waste my time.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Cardoc I have been following your posts concerning po420 codes, and to not keep repeating things what is your take on after market Cats? I have one on the passenger side which has been welded in recently. bought the car 3 months ago 139k supposedly all work done to it. so far what was stated checked out. CEL came on was cleared, car driven, and passed NYS inspection. After about 100 miles light came back on. My friend owns a shop and uses similar diagnostic tools as you have shown in this forum. Results were Bank 1 sensor 1. So we changed the AF sensor. Cleared code and same result, although at idle the car seemed to want to stall? Anyway CEL returned and I have tried to follow your checklist to eliminate possible culprits. I am going to try replacing the O2 sensor after the CAT or do you think it is the aftermarket CAT? When I replaced the AF sensor it was showing coloration of running lean. It was a Bosch plug with California emisssions. I know you are busy but I would appreciate your thoughts.

-Chad
This may answer yours and DAS's at the same time.

The 04 is electronic throttle?

When someone replaces a CAT without finding what caused the CAT to fail, you will kill the new CAT. The rear O2 sensor measures the oxygen content of the exhaust gases coming out of the CAT and the ECM compares that data with the AF sensor's data and the difference in O2 content is how the ECM determines whether it is working proper or not.

Anytime the rear O2 sends data that matches the AF sensor and ECM's STFT, it is an indication that exhaust gases are passing through the CAT as if there were no CAT. Waveform all over the place.

Both of these year models utilize AF sensors. They measure the oxygen content in a different manner than the older O2 sensors. The measurements can be read in Lambda or Voltage. The data from the AF sensor will allow you to determine several things about the combustion and ignition. High voltage indicates rich, high amount of fuel exiting, and low the opposite. As discussed in Fibber2's thread, the combustion process is key to the life of a CAT. Any error in the performance of the engine will either kill the CAT quick or slowly.

clavalley, Your low idle is part of the issue and you need to find the source. Temperature control should also be checked, thermostat. The type of fuel and its volume of alcohol, and the condition of the plugs and wires. It may be running rich due to improper MAP or temperature, plugs have lost the ability to spark at the correct temperature or the engine isn't breathing proper, either can't get enough air in, or it can't push it out. Think of the intake/exhaust like your lungs. Breathe in, breathe out. In answer to the type of CAT, yes, an aftermarket CAT can be installed onto the wrong car. It needs to be matched for the VE and output of the engine combustion. Not all CATs are the same.

DAS, A waveform from the rear O2 indicates a bad CAT. You need to find what killed it. You may be able to remove and clean it, but if its very old and has lost substrate, replace it. If the rear O2 is bad, it would have a slow response time in the waveform when you induce a rich or lean condition.
 
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