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I have 2010 3.6 outback 167k miles. We just had to have the ECU replaced due to Bank 1 misfires. This was diagnosed and replaced by Subaru. The replacement of the ECU took care of the misfires and car seems to be running great. Then after 4 days of daily driving check engine light went on P0420 code and one an only code. Subaru is now suggesting a bad cat. I am not going for that quite yet. I took it to another "Subaru" mechanic they told to keep driving and if the light comes back on bring it in and they are telling me the downstream O2 sensor is the next thing to try. I replaced what I think was the downstream O2 off Bank 1 as I could not find one at the rear cat which puzzled me based on what I have researched. The rear cat is a OEM cat, but has no O2 sensor anywhere near it or on it. There just doesn't seem to be much info out there on 2010 3.6 Outbacks and I am not sure if I am just totally missing it or if just truly doesn't have one, so that is my first question here. The car seems to be running well, just sick of starring at the blinking BRAKE light and Check Engine light. Also, we are ready for an upgrade and it would be great to sell this thing without a check engine light going off. Thanks to anyone that can lead me to the water on this.
 

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2005 Outback limited, H4 non-turbo, manual transmission
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The AF sensors are working, as well as the O2s.
The fuel trim on bank one is a little high, but then it comes down. I would check for a leak in the intake on bank 1 or an issue with the PCV valve or hose that is allowing unmetered air in. Also check the oil fill cap seal for the same reason.
The engine seems to be running good at idle. I would like to see a log with it driven. About a 2 minute cruising at 45 then highway speed.
The cats are toast.
I finally got my cats replaced. I have a link below to the log. I did a little at 40-45, then 55-60. There is a period in between at idle, that was me getting gas, I was on the low gas warning. Any thoughts?
Thank you,
 

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I have 2010 3.6 outback 167k miles. We just had to have the ECU replaced due to Bank 1 misfires. This was diagnosed and replaced by Subaru. The replacement of the ECU took care of the misfires and car seems to be running great. Then after 4 days of daily driving check engine light went on P0420 code and one an only code. Subaru is now suggesting a bad cat. I am not going for that quite yet. I took it to another "Subaru" mechanic they told to keep driving and if the light comes back on bring it in and they are telling me the downstream O2 sensor is the next thing to try. I replaced what I think was the downstream O2 off Bank 1 as I could not find one at the rear cat which puzzled me based on what I have researched. The rear cat is a OEM cat, but has no O2 sensor anywhere near it or on it. There just doesn't seem to be much info out there on 2010 3.6 Outbacks and I am not sure if I am just totally missing it or if just truly doesn't have one, so that is my first question here. The car seems to be running well, just sick of starring at the blinking BRAKE light and Check Engine light. Also, we are ready for an upgrade and it would be great to sell this thing without a check engine light going off. Thanks to anyone that can lead me to the water on this.
The 3.6 only has 4 sensors. The front ones are the AF sensors mounted just in front of each cat. The rear sensor is in the cat just aft of center. Bank 1 is the passenger side of the car for left hand drive vehicles.

It's best to utilize the car's datastream to determine what the issue is. It may be a bad cat due to the engine misfires if the misfires occurred over a good span of time. Any good tech will be able to determine the problem if they know what to look for, not "try this out and see what happens". If you have a laptop or notebook you can use Rom Raider and log data as outlined in various places on this thread. Unfortunately, you can't post the log directly to the thread, so you'd have to save it somewhere that's accessible to viewers like Google Drive or other public source. Once I see the data I can determine what the issue is or where to check for problems that is causing the code.
 

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Posting for a friend. Seriously!! 2010 OB 2.5. p0420 code. He brought the car to his mechanic with the CE light on. Tech said he put a product called CatClean through the tank and somehow deleted the code so it would pass emissions in Connecticut. the code as predicted came back. Friend put another "dose" of catclean in the gas tank. I am positive its not going to work. However, his question is, if it does work will the code clear on its own? Or should he clear the code and see if it comes back? I realize this is not the way to go about it, but who am I? Thanks in advance,

Tyler
 

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Posting for a friend. Seriously!! 2010 OB 2.5. p0420 code. He brought the car to his mechanic with the CE light on. Tech said he put a product called CatClean through the tank and somehow deleted the code so it would pass emissions in Connecticut. the code as predicted came back. Friend put another "dose" of catclean in the gas tank. I am positive its not going to work. However, his question is, if it does work will the code clear on its own? Or should he clear the code and see if it comes back? I realize this is not the way to go about it, but who am I? Thanks in advance,

Tyler
If you will read through this thread, you will see that the code does not necessarily indicate a bad catalytic converter. A converter will go to crap if an issue is not corrected in time. Even when a bad cat is replaced, you have to identify what damaged it in order to keep from damaging the new cat.

As a reminder, and since this thread is so large, things that cause the code are vacuum leaks, (hose cracked, purge valve stuck open, gasket(s) leaking, loose oil fill cap, etc.; any unmetered air), bad battery, bad grounding, weak alternator, PCV valve clogged, slow reacting or bad AF or O2 sensors, type of fuel in the car, poor fuel delivery, leaking injector, misfire or poor ignition from a spark plug or coil, harness issues, oil condition and level, AVLS operation, knocking due to carbon build up or low octane fuels, torque converter problems, dragging brakes or bearings, exhaust leaks, timing belt alignment due to stretched belt or bad tensioner and engine temperature control.

Logging data and posting it up is the best way for us to help determine what the issue is. Any logger that lets you see the engine data PIDs and record and save as a CSV or spreadsheet is sufficient. Most use Rom Raider, others have used TorquePro and similar.

The cataclean is not going to make a cat work. It may clean out some of the carbon build up, but as far as making it work again, no. Once the metals in the cat deteriorate to the point of inactivity, it's done.
 

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If you will read through this thread, you will see that the code does not necessarily indicate a bad catalytic converter. A converter will go to crap if an issue is not corrected in time. Even when a bad cat is replaced, you have to identify what damaged it in order to keep from damaging the new cat.

As a reminder, and since this thread is so large, things that cause the code are vacuum leaks, (hose cracked, purge valve stuck open, gasket(s) leaking, loose oil fill cap, etc.; any unmetered air), bad battery, bad grounding, weak alternator, PCV valve clogged, slow reacting or bad AF or O2 sensors, type of fuel in the car, poor fuel delivery, leaking injector, misfire or poor ignition from a spark plug or coil, harness issues, oil condition and level, AVLS operation, knocking due to carbon build up or low octane fuels, torque converter problems, dragging brakes or bearings, exhaust leaks, timing belt alignment due to stretched belt or bad tensioner and engine temperature control.

Logging data and posting it up is the best way for us to help determine what the issue is. Any logger that lets you see the engine data PIDs and record and save as a CSV or spreadsheet is sufficient. Most use Rom Raider, others have used TorquePro and similar.

The cataclean is not going to make a cat work. It may clean out some of the carbon build up, but as far as making it work again, no. Once the metals in the cat deteriorate to the point of inactivity, it's done.
@cardoc I appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed response. I did read through the thread a bit but as you said its got a ton of information. I told my friend I would ask and this is exactly the response I was expecting. Actually I thought id get more, "read the F*#$%&(* thread" responses. So I'll tell him what I found and see how he wants to go about it. The biggest problem Im running into trying to find a non subaru cat is, that the car is a pzev. Im sure he doesn't want to put any old POS cat on there. Will a non PZEV cat work? I assume not. Should he just buy the subaru cat? Thanks again,

Tyler
 

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@cardoc I appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed response. I did read through the thread a bit but as you said its got a ton of information. I told my friend I would ask and this is exactly the response I was expecting. Actually I thought id get more, "read the F*#$%&(* thread" responses. So I'll tell him what I found and see how he wants to go about it. The biggest problem Im running into trying to find a non subaru cat is, that the car is a pzev. Im sure he doesn't want to put any old POS cat on there. Will a non PZEV cat work? I assume not. Should he just buy the subaru cat? Thanks again,

Tyler
If he is not in California or another state that does a dyno tailpipe test and only has an emission test with the OBD port, then a normal cat will work fine.
 

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Logging data and posting it up is the best way for us to help determine what the issue is. Any logger that lets you see the engine data PIDs and record and save as a CSV or spreadsheet is sufficient. Most use Rom Raider, others have used TorquePro and similar.
Wow, thanks for summarizing the 93 pages ! I have an OBD Bluetooth thing:


... which I use on wife's Nissan Leaf with a Leaf-specific program. I've asked the manufacturer what apps I might find to let me use it with my Subaru and he mentioned OBD Fusion, ezOBD, and OBD Auto Doctor. Are you familiar with any of these and know if they'll provide the diagnostic info required ?

This one looks pretty capable: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=OCTech.Mobile.Applications.TouchScan
 

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Wow, thanks for summarizing the 93 pages ! I have an OBD Bluetooth thing:


... which I use on wife's Nissan Leaf with a Leaf-specific program. I've asked the manufacturer what apps I might find to let me use it with my Subaru and he mentioned OBD Fusion, ezOBD, and OBD Auto Doctor. Are you familiar with any of these and know if they'll provide the diagnostic info required ?

This one looks pretty capable: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=OCTech.Mobile.Applications.TouchScan
That's a lot to read through to see if it's not a joke product, but the OBD Fusion already leads me to believe you have to buy hardware to use the software. i.e., bluetooth adapters, USB adapters, etc. and the total cost along with effectiveness will be questionable.

You'd be better off getting the TorquePro or RomRaider. RomRaider is free, just buy a $10 cable (VAG-Com 409.1 as mentioned several times in this thread). I don't know exactly what you'll need to use the TorquePro app. I have my laptop with software and an Autel MaxiDas (you don't want this one unless you have an extra $800 laying around). I know both work great with what I need. I haven't figured a way for Autel to save data logs for export though. Still working on it. It records nice and talks to every manufactured vehicle in the world, but the data is saved on the scan tool and it's not in a csv format. (I connected to a Buick Regal today and the VIN was indecipherable but the car came up as an Opel Insignia. This particular Buick/Opel is built in Germany.)
 

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That's a lot to read through to see if it's not a joke product ...
Yeah sorry, just thought maybe people here would've heard of it.
the OBD Fusion already leads me to believe you have to buy hardware to use the software. i.e., bluetooth adapters
You definitely do need hardware to use it, the LELink Bluetooth adapter I mentioned. But I already own it, to use with wife's Leaf.

OBD Fusion si only $5, I'll give it a try and report back - and try RomRaider if it doesn't work.
 

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I haven't yet started logging data for my 02 outback, but an interesting side note is that the CEL goes off on it's own whenever the gas tank gets down between 1/8- 1/4 of a tank. It comes back on as after refilling, tried different grades of gas once or twice and no difference. I need to work thru some laptop pc issues first unless rom-raider works on a mac.
 

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If he is not in California or another state that does a dyno tailpipe test and only has an emission test with the OBD port, then a normal cat will work fine.
Two words. Stock plugs. He reset the light and has been through a couple tanks of gas. I'd say he's in the clear at this point. Thanks for your help.

Tyler
 

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I haven't yet started logging data for my 02 outback, but an interesting side note is that the CEL goes off on it's own whenever the gas tank gets down between 1/8- 1/4 of a tank. It comes back on as after refilling, tried different grades of gas once or twice and no difference. I need to work thru some laptop pc issues first unless rom-raider works on a mac.
Windows and Linux
 

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2005 Legacy with California Emissions. Throws a P0420 frequently, although sometimes it doesn't and the catalyst monitor passes.


From what I'm seeing Bank 2 cat not looking too good but I find really curious how from the 90 second timestamp the B2S2 o2 goes full lean and stays that way for 13 seconds. This first chart was with a 45-50mph highway run as steady as I can make it (highway wasn't perfectly flat). Second chart is idle. Relevant CSV files attached. Also note that Bank 2 has a brand new Denso o2 sensor.


chart (2).png

473087
 

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'94 Legacy 2.2 250K miles & recently purchsed 2010 Outback, hail damage and needs engine work
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every time I see this topic I almost burst out laughing.......... It sounds like a code for "diver stoned"...........
 

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2005 Legacy with California Emissions. Throws a P0420 frequently, although sometimes it doesn't and the catalyst monitor passes.


From what I'm seeing Bank 2 cat not looking too good but I find really curious how from the 90 second timestamp the B2S2 o2 goes full lean and stays that way for 13 seconds. This first chart was with a 45-50mph highway run as steady as I can make it (highway wasn't perfectly flat). Second chart is idle. Relevant CSV files attached. Also note that Bank 2 has a brand new Denso o2 sensor.
Something happened with your logs when you uploaded them. They download as text documents.

I you would, either put the csv files on an outside source like Google Docs and put a link to it here. Or, make a graph with rpm and tps included with the O2 sensor. Also, what was your STFT like? ECT? Knock Correction? Are these in your logs?
 

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Something happened with your logs when you uploaded them. They download as text documents.

I you would, either put the csv files on an outside source like Google Docs and put a link to it here. Or, make a graph with rpm and tps included with the O2 sensor. Also, what was your STFT like? ECT? Knock Correction? Are these in your logs?
I just downloaded the two files. Renamed them by removing just the .txt at the end. That leaves the .csv at the end, and they convert to spreadsheets that seem to display as expected.
 
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