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Picked up 2013 today: what a difference!

20K views 78 replies 36 participants last post by  Nickshu 
#1 ·
I pulled the trigger today and drove home a 2013 Premium. Compared with my 2011 Premium that I just traded in, ride is much more controlled and less cushy. I absolutely love it.

And I believe I got a terrific deal. The total out-of-pocket difference from 2011 Premium (around 9,000 miles) to 2013 Premium was around $3,200 (TTL included.)

Thanks for all the great info!
 
#4 ·
Wife has a 2011 OB and we love the ride. Are you saying the 2013 is even better?
Well you know this is the guy that had the few accidents with his 11' ob. maybe he is soooo relieved now that he can start fresh. i call it the placebo effect.:D
 
#8 ·
I agree with GtownSubie. I drove a new '12 and a new '13 prior to a purchase of a '13. The '13 rides much smoother and planted while the '12 has a "floaty" ride. We would have been happy with the '12 but the dealers are not discounting them all that much compared to the '13's. The MPG is better as well. Another + is the CVT seems more smooth. The '12 seems to dislike the slow speeds, i.e. navigating parking lots etc but the '13 CVT appears seemless.
 
#10 ·
Another + is the CVT seems more smooth. The '12 seems to dislike the slow speeds, i.e. navigating parking lots etc but the '13 CVT appears seemless.
I have not driven a '12, but my '13 does not like slow speeds. The throttle/transmission response is "snatchy" at slow speeds. Also, while making a sharp right turn from a standstill, the left front tire skidded just like an old 4WD truck would do. Hopefully this will all smooth out after break-in.
 
#12 ·
Not being a Subaru guy I went and car tested many with a lady friend. She had a Subaru before so we tested both Outback and Forester. Both 12's both nice. I was impressed when the salesperson put us in a lot with super soft sand. I live in the Panhandle of Florida and if you drive off the road in the sand without 4WD you are sunk. He told her to stop then just drive out. Very impressed and I have owned 4WDs most of my entire life.
That sold me.
My wife and I tested both 12 and 13 Outbacks both 2.5 and 3.6. The difference was less noticeable front end shaking in the 13 and much less overall noise at highway speeds with the 3.6.

I was only interested in models that had Eye Sight but we wanted to test that as well as the 12's in case Eye Sight was not all it was cracked up to be.

Well we ordered the 13 Limited with Eye Sight and should get it in early September since it was ordered 21 July.

Not being a Subaru guy but being a tester by vocation I am pretty sensitive to differences and frankly except for the noticeable to me shaking in the 12's I drove the 13 just seemed smoother all around.

Turn radius for the Outback is outstanding compared to all the other vehicles I own, again very impressive...
 
#13 ·
Great feedback, but in the case of the 12's shaking I would be more incline to think that was a individual/isolated case. Interesting about the lack of 12 discounting. If one could get around 4,500 off MSRP at some point on a 12 vs a invoice only price on a 13 what would you choose?, if it was a apples to apples choice on model and trim.The only difference would be eyesight which is not an option in 12 if that was in the choice.
 
#15 ·
Well, I dumped my '11 for a '12 about 3-4 months ago. I thought the differences were HUGE. Any way, I just took our OB on a 1200 mile weekend through Kentucky (decent amount of hills). I still say you can get front end vibrations at times in the 12, although they are much more isolated. I also note that at high speeds (75-80 MPH) I had to let off and coast at times and then the car would be much smoother. Almost like the CVT needed to reset and then found a better spot. Anyway, I love the way the 2012 rides. I like the cushy/floaty feeling as it just absorbs all the highway junk. Very rested and comfortable on long stretches 3-4 hours straight driving. Never fatigued. No lane wandering. Sometimes darty, but nothing major. Averaged 31.5 for the trip. (6200 miles now) Speed limits were 70 MPH so definitely pushing hard on the car most of the time in the hills.

I am not going to say the 2013 is not better, as I have not driven one. I can say, I do not want a more firm and planted ride. That means harder and I like the softness. I did not buy a jacked up AWD wagon for handling prowess. My car eats speed bumps for breakfast.

That said, glad you find the 2013 a better car. I hate the wheels and the fogs and the grill. However, those are cosmetics and we are talking about an already ugly duckling car, so do those things really matter, probably not.

I am a little disappointed with the 2012 and the occasional front end vibrations. It is not a problem, nor bothersome, but I would have thought they had it corrected by the third model. I guess it took the 4th and probably the reason for the firmer suspension. They probably needed to dampen oscillation more.

Anyway, thanks for the write up and your opinion. I would have expected nothing less than a rave review. You had to justify the upgrade somehow. No one buys a new car and thinks the old car was the better vehicle, or you would have just kept the old one.

The discount situation sounds like sales shpeal to me. That reasoning does not even make sense.

I also find the turn radius amazing.
 
#23 ·
Anyway, thanks for the write up and your opinion. I would have expected nothing less than a rave review. You had to justify the upgrade somehow. No one buys a new car and thinks the old car was the better vehicle, or you would have just kept the old one.

The discount situation sounds like sales shpeal to me. That reasoning does not even make sense.
Thanks for your detailed input.

Yes, I had to justify the upgrade somehow, but the financial consideration made the whole decision process much easier (even enjoyable).

If I could fetch only $18,500 or $19,500 for a year-old car that I initially had paid $23,700 + TTL, I may well have driven my old one for a long time, because the financial hit will be substantial.

But the amount I received from a Subaru dealer was actually pretty good. I got a $21,500 for my old car, was able to use $500 coupon (for having a free two-year maintenance plan), and will receive another $250 check from SOA as a loyalty incentive. In other words, I had a car for a year for as little as $1,450, if you add those $750 to a trade-in value. If this is not a good deal, I am puzzled what might be a good deal?
 
#16 ·
The 13's do not shake, the vibes you're feeling are the road and the increased stiffness of the suspension. The cruise control bumps in 5mph increments so I did a test starting at 40 mph to 75mph. I bumped the speed by 5mph increments and anything I felt at speed was there at 40mph. I wouldn't have even done this test if it were not because of the internet and this forum. But I did it none the less to confirm what I believed to be true. I found a spot on the road where you could feel some vibration and told my wife this is what some people are calling a steering wheel shake on the 13's her word for word reseponse was "They're ****ing idiots"
 
#18 ·
The 13's do not shake, the vibes you're feeling are the road and the increased stiffness of the suspension. The cruise control bumps in 5mph increments so I did a test starting at 40 mph to 75mph. I bumped the speed by 5mph increments and anything I felt at speed was there at 40mph. I wouldn't have even done this test if it were not because of the internet and this forum. But I did it none the less to confirm what I believed to be true. I found a spot on the road where you could feel some vibration and told my wife this is what some people are calling a steering wheel shake on the 13's her word for word reseponse was "They're ****ing idiots"

that's bold coming from someone who has only driven maybe a handfull of 2013's. i wouldn't lay that out there as a blanket statement just yet.
 
#17 ·
Any car worth a crap is going to give you some sort of road feedback. I am talking more about the oscillating that occurs randomly at times. It is still present on the 2012 at times but is much less noticeable. I will go check out a 2013 for sure to see the differences though.
 
#21 ·
The two '13 2.5i CVTs I tested were markedly different. The first one had a whine at anything above idle, worse than the sound of turbos spooling. The second one was much quiter; I even pushed the second one harder than the first just to test "how fast" the 2.5i can move. Since I don't want to bring up a 2.5i vs. 3.6r debate, I'll keep my opinion on the matter to myself.
 
#29 ·
New user here. I was convinced by these forums not long ago to install the 19mm rsb on my '12 2.5i premium. Has anyone compared the ride of the '13 to the '12+ 19mm rsb upgrade? The '13 seems to be all about better handling with an emphasis on decreased body roll so i'm curious how the two would compare. It sounds like the dampening is also little less floaty on the '13 models?
 
#30 ·
In regard to the 12's shaking. It was not isolated, we drove a number of them. We also drove a number of 13's and they had no shake. I am or was a tester by profession and know the difference between oscillation and shaking. It was not oscillation but shake like a bushing bad or a contol arm bad. Unlikely since they are new but a definite shake. I have no dog in this fight since we would have bought a 12 if the 13 Eye Sight system was not up to snuff. After driving the 12's we would not buy one.

I am a diesel guy and would love to see a diesel or diesel hybrid but very unlikely since the auto industry was burned so bad in the 80's. A few VWs, Mecs and BMWs but not seeing anything from Asia even though they make great diesel products...
 
#32 ·
Does anyone who picked up a 2013 with Navi have any commentary or reviews on the navigation system? I skipped it on our 2011 because it didn't get great reviews....but really liked having it in my previous vehicle. Actually I'm trying to use it as part of the justification to myself to make the jump. :D

Steve

P.S. I used WAZE and Navigon on my iPhone for navigation and that works fine but I would really like in-dash.
 
#33 ·
The NAV in the 2013 Outback is a new unit not used previously. It is made by Fujitsu Ten exclusively for Subaru.
First the cons or nitpicks: It sometimes is too slow when you are travelling and have a quick series of turns. There are a couple of bugs I have found so far and just don't know who to report them to.
The good: It uses an SD card instead of a disc. The display is big and bright. There are many, many great options. It has XM Traffic. It integrates well with the audio and Bluetooth. I have not gotten into the voice commands yet. The navigation is excellent. This unit has 3D view which is why I finally decided to get the factory NAV.
I have not used it for more than an hour but my initial impression is positive. It does take time to become familar with it.
I am glad I got it.
 
#39 ·
Thank you for the links Thai,

That has been my 2 concerns with hybrids. 1.) what is the net effect on the environment at the lifespan of the battery. 2.) Will the savings be worth it in the end if I need to replace the battery.

My last argument may be futile, but I want a MT, and I am afraid the hybrid might be the final nail in the coffin for that. I know Honda had one in the failed CRZ and few other manufacturers have dabbled in it, but I doubt you'll see any budget Hybrids with a MT.. :/
 
#40 ·
My last argument may be futile, but I want a MT, and I am afraid the hybrid might be the final nail in the coffin for that. I know Honda had one in the failed CRZ and few other manufacturers have dabbled in it, but I doubt you'll see any budget Hybrids with a MT.. :/
IMO, the death of MT has more to do with more efficient (and faster shifting) ATs and sequential transmission emergence. The latter, used to be found in high end sports car, is now available on the Ford Fiesta (for example)...granted, it ain't all that great in that car but that tech is now spreading everywhere. Modern ATs now get better fuel economy than MTs and shift speed and CPU processing are improving everyday.

Nah, hybrids are not the final nail in the coffin for MTs. However, they are seemingly the death dealer for the consumer car diesels in today's society where fuel economy must also match pollution standards.
 
#42 ·
Valid points chilanzer. I wouldn't even think about a hybrid unless the price difference was negligble. I've run cost analysis before out of curiousity. But I truly think in 5-10 yrs it's going to be common place and a negligble difference, if even a choice at all given CAFE requirements. Also, by then it should be quite reliable.

As for an MT, it's definitely a preference thing. For me, driving my 4EAT Hyundai is torture. It can't decide if it should be in 3 or 4 through half of my commute, then when I want it to kick down, it'll lug for a few secs then kick the revs up to 6500. Same goes for my parents 4EAT Forester... As far as AT's go, the CVT wins hands down.

But I just enjoy rowing the gears and being able to control my car and transmission. Even paddles don't react the same as a true MT. To each their own..
 
#43 ·
Well, the Prius is considered a "midsize" sedan getting 50 mpg. A Camry gets 28 mpg combined. Not sure if you has to wait ten years to realize the difference. A base Prius costs low $20k. And most Prius gets more than EPA especially if you drive city a lot.

Lets say average driver drives 12k miles a year and average gas price is $3.50 per gallon (averaging today and near future prices).

Average fuel economy for Camry (base) is 28 mpg (combined). Average fuel economy for Prius (base) is 50 mpg (combined). Both use regular gas.

After 12,000 miles, the Camry uses 428.6 gallons of gas. Prius uses 240 gallons.

In that time, Camry owner would spend $1500.01. Prius owner would spend $840. Difference of $660 per year (if driven 12k miles in that year).

Price difference b/w Camry and Prius is insignificant.


BTW, if you want to compare Corolla (a smaller & less practical car than Prius!), then Corolla gets similar MPGs as Camry 4-cyl. Lets say that a Corolla is $16k, while Prius is $22k. (Remember, Prius base has a lot more features and tech than a base Corolla.) But, for fun, lets do the same math.

Since both Corolla and Camry 4-cyl gets similar mileage, the calculations above is valid for Corolla as well. Difference is about $660 per year. Corolla is $6000 cheaper than Prius. $6000 divide by $660 = 9 years to make up the difference.

But, owning a Prius also means less maintenance than even a Corolla over the average lifetime. The ONLY thing that you do with a Prius is tire rotation, oil changes, and topping off accessory fluids (windshield, etc.). That's it. No tranny maintenance. No alternator to die. And as noted above (in Consumer Report testing), the brakes (and most other things) on a hybrid lasts forever! (The real brakes on a hybrid are used much less often.) Of course, the Prius is a much safer car than Corolla (see NHTSA) and has way more features (auto AC, one touch start, etc.)...and it has tons more room.

Disclaimer: i don't know about other hybrids...i only claim to know the Prius. :D
 
#45 ·
Well, the Prius is considered a "midsize" sedan getting 50 mpg.
it may be considered that, but (as a matter of personal taste) it sure does not look it. Camry, however pedestrian and run of the mill, looks "presentable". Prius looks thrifty-hatch. To me it just does not have the "midsize sedan" feel.

Before commiting to the OB, we did our due diligence and looked at Prius V. yes they write all over the place that in space it compares to a "small SUV". Well, my perception - it compares to a small station wagon like Elantra Touring maybe. No AWD, no towing capacity, no even mild offroad ability.

Also I would probably doubt Prius V getting actual 50MPG highway... City maybe. But I digress, we are talking mostly about Outback here.


:D
 
#46 ·
Mine does. My Prius is the regular kind...and easily gets 50 mpg. Prius V gets low 40's i think. My Prius is the "high-end" model...and thus gets the worst fuel economy of all regular Prius due to fatter tires and more equipment. My brother's Prius Four gets 55-56 mpg in combined mileage!!

As for space, whether it "looks" like a midsize or not is irrelevant...the specs and cargo capacity say otherwise. Of course, it has no off-road ability...it was never meant to replace SUV! The Prius V does offer the space of a mini-SUV...that's the point. In Japan, the Prius V is like the Mazada minivan over here...3 rows of seating. Not sure why you would think otherwise! I think that your apparent bias against hybrids got the best of your judgement. :( As you can see, most of your bias has been proven wrong. Battery of a Toyota hybrid outlasts most regular cars...certainly outlasts most 1st owner of a vehicle!

And if you think that the Prius can't go fast, then here is a pic of me speeding to the hospital at 3:11 am: :D
 
#47 ·
I told my wife our Outback is just a prius on steroids, especially once the hybrid system comes. They better keep it a boxer motor! I don't see why they can't though. It should sandwhich right up to the motor and CVT just fine. The only difference will probably be a shorter driveline and a heavier front end.
 
#48 ·
Thai, your points are all valid. But personally I don't like the looks of a Prius. If I'm going to buy a car, I want to like looking at it. Vain, yes, but aren't we all in some way.

If we compare apples to apples, the Hybrid Camry runs approx $3300 more. Using your numbers that works out to 3300/660 = 5yrs to break even. Using the stated 43mpg gets you closer to 6yrs. IMO that's getting close and if the numbers are similar when Subaru launches thiers, it would be in my sights. It's been a few years since I did any comparison, and the prices are definitely closer. Which is why I think in 10 yrs when I trade in my OB, the hybrid will be a negligble difference, if it's not standard equipment.

That is all fine and dandy for my family car... but damnit I want a MT :D Nonetheless, my DD gets <7500 miles per year. I can afford a gas guzzling 30mpg MT ;)
 
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