[PilotXT]

Really the only thing I wish it had is a heated steering wheel option. Other than that, love the Startex, as it's been holding up great to the beach, snow, and camping grit. Gas mileage could be better, but then again, I'm far from conservative in my driving. It's just too darn fun.

Having said that, I would be curious about the 2.5 Limited, just for the other options and better gas mileage. Still, no regrets.

Agree as well. Big fan of StarTex now, thanks to kids and baseball clay / soccer turf pellets, Would like to see a 2.5 version of Onyx, that would make things interesting. Also the heated wheel would be very welcome! I’m confident this XT will last until there is a hybrid offered, which is what I think is my ideal Outback.

 

[JoeH]

I see you are in PA as is my daughter. Isn't it a law there that one of your vehicles has to be a Subaru, just like in Colorado?

There are quite a few here in PA...also at our beach town, Lewes, DE. We have been in Florida for the past 3 weeks, and I've only seen 2.

 

[Icemateo]

Agree as well. Big fan of StarTex now, thanks to kids and baseball clay / soccer turf pellets, Would like to see a 2.5 version of Onyx, that would make things interesting. Also the heated wheel would be very welcome! I’m confident this XT will last until there is a hybrid offered, which is what I think is my ideal Outback.

Heard that. A hybrid Onyx would be a game changer. Until it's even an option, I'm planning on keeping this car for the next 10-15 years.

 

[blaydesglobal]

PHEV Outback would be so rad.

 

[airwhen]

Have a 2020 Touring 2.5 (Premier in US). Really happy with it and with mods like AutoStopEliminator, the CarPlay full screen, 60d transmount insert (and soon to be installed Group N Pitch Stop) rear overload springs - it’s got all the performance I need and is fun to drive. Look forward to many years of enjoyment😎. ....... and the next upgrade ........ likely a Nameless tower brace ....... hmmmmm😁!

I have a Nameless tower brace I am going to put up for sale soon. I cannot use it with my camber plates on my coil overs.

 

[PilotXT]

Yeah, that’s the idea. The Crosstrek is essentially a tech demo. I don’t need (but would like) a hybrid to be in the Onyx trim, but I would be fine with StarTex. I hope they can figure out a way to keep the full size spare, even if it is bottom-mounted somehow. I would be willing to concede to a temporary spare if that was impossible.

PHEV Outback with 20 miles of electric range and city/highway around 30/35 would be excellent. Current fuel tank size is 18.6 (Crosstrek is 16.6 and drops about 20% to 13.2 in hybrid) so I would think a tank like 14.5 gallons would be what we’d get.

14.5 x 30 mpg = 435. That works for me. That would save me about $20 a week in fuel at $3, and probably more because I have the means to L2 charge, sometimes for free. Saves easily over $1000 per year.

 

[blaydesglobal]

Yeah, that’s the idea. The Crosstrek is essentially a tech demo. I don’t need (but would like) a hybrid to be in the Onyx trim, but I would be fine with StarTex. I hope they can figure out a way to keep the full size spare, even if it is bottom-mounted somehow. I would be willing to concede to a temporary spare if that was impossible.

PHEV Outback with 20 miles of electric range and city/highway around 30/35 would be excellent. Current fuel tank size is 18.6 (Crosstrek is 16.6 and drops about 20% to 13.2 in hybrid) so I would think a tank like 14.5 gallons would be what we’d get.

14.5 x 30 mpg = 435. That works for me. That would save me about $20 a week in fuel at $3, and probably more because I have the means to L2 charge, sometimes for free. Saves easily over $1000 per year.

Plus if they could let you plug appliances into the car while camping, it would be perfect.

 

[flixden]

We have 2 Outbacks in the family, and our 2020 gen 6 will be handed down to our younger son soon. The older one already drives the gen5 OB.
We have decided to switch brands for the next car though, we have a Rav4 Prime on order.
Still like the Outbacks and will recommend them, but Subaru will need to update their line with hybrids and electric drive trains if they want to remain competitive imo.

 

[stillearning]

PHEV will likely be our next car purchase. Be nice if it were a Subaru Outback. If not, probably a Hyundai or Toyota of some sort. Something with 30-40 electric only range.
Are you listening Subaru?

 

[PilotXT]

Prime is still “new” so wasn’t on my radar. Would like to see it demonstrated over a couple years before it goes on the list. Some weird quirks with the climate system. There’s a YT channel by James Klafein or something like that and he’s excellent and thorough. Not personally a fan of the R4 design on the general whole, so waiting impatiently for the Outback Hybrid or PHEV. I did enjoy my couple years with my Forester so I would remain in brand with a Forester PHEV if there was no Outback option.

@stillearning - 40 miles of all electric range is a lot. 20 is probably more reasonable to keep costs down. Most drivers drive less than 35 miles per day. Over long term, employers will have chargers at their parking lot if they don’t today. They will be common. So even a 15-20 mile one way is sufficient energy if you’re driving through suburbia or urban settings where you’re also braking which recovers energy as well.

Hopefully they can figure out a way to make 70 the top speed with all EV instead of 65, since the highways here are 65!

 

[Hokieman]

I have a Nameless tower brace I am going to put up for sale soon. I cannot use it with my camber plates on my coil overs.

View attachment 508180
[/QUOTE

Are you located anywhere near southern VA/NC?

 

[SilverOnyx]

I think Subaru will skip over hybrid and go directly to EV for mass production and here's why:

First, the only efficiency that a non-plug-in Hybrid has, is that it captures BRAKING energy. Aside from that, it's dead weight. For a hybrid, the energy loss from wind resistance can't be recovered by the hybrid system, but the braking energy in city driving is recovered and re-used. That's why the city fuel economy of a Hybrid is greater than it's highway fuel economy. The beauty of this system is that you don't need to worry about plugging it in - you bypass the charging infrastructure issue.

In a hybrid vehicle you have twin powertrains - internal combustion + mechanical drivetrain + electric motor so you have greater complexity not less, and you still have to change the oil, deal with transmission issues, go to the gas station.

In a plug-in hybrid, you have a beefier electric motor, and beefier batteries, but you still also have that internal combustion motor and mechanical drivetrain. Now you need to take advantage of an electric charging infrastructure to fill the battery at home or at an EV station, AND you have to go to the gas station to fill up. Twin primary power sources, twin kinds of fuel needed.

In a pure EV you no longer have to go to the gas station, no longer need to change oil, transmission fluid - it's simpler than any hybrid, more reliable, and you can charge it at home every night. The primary obstacle to mass EV adoption is expensive batteries and this continues to improve. In 5-10 years we will potentially have a battery technology that bypasses today's lithium batteries, not just a few percent improvement, but it could be a game changer but this remains to be seen. The promise is of what they are calling "solid state" batteries. Toyota claims to have them. Subaru is now a part of the Toyota group and they are co-developing their EV. Volkswagen is also getting into solid state batteries. So once the battery nut is cracked, internal combustion engines will no longer make economic sense, even in a hybrid.

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Frank Blome, head of Volkswagen’s battery cells centre, describes solid-state batteries as the “end game” for their lithium-ion equivalents. Solid-state batteries are safer, cheaper and can be used for longer without a decline in performance, requiring fewer raw materials. Battery cells can be stacked, like bricks in a wall, making them easier to fit into different car designs. They are lighter, reach a full charge in around 10 minutes and have higher energy density — providing double or more range. Less copper and aluminium will be needed. Graphite and cobalt could be eliminated altogether. Recycling solid-state batteries is a much simpler and safer process.

Energy density of conventional batteries has risen about 4 per cent a year over the past two decades to about 700 watt-hour a litre (Wh/L), which translates to a driving range of about 500km in a passenger car. Further increases have been difficult to achieve due to the volume that cells and liquid electrolytes take up. Solid-state batteries offer a step change. Not only would they push the energy density of battery cells beyond 1,000 Wh/L — for a driving range of 800km — but they can also handle more charging cycles before starting to degrade. They would also hold more energy throughout their longer lifespan, allowing for the possibility of a 1m-mile life battery. That would dramatically change lifetime ownership costs and cut the use of raw materials.

...a number of Asian companies look best placed to make solid-state batteries a reality. Toyota is set to unveil a prototype this year, which would take just 10 minutes to charge for 500km of range. Its Lexus LF-30 concept model, with a compact solid-state battery, was unveiled two years ago and it now has 1,000 registered patents involving solid-state battery technology.

 

[RocketMan20]

I have a Nameless tower brace I am going to put up for sale soon. I cannot use it with my camber plates on my coil overs.

View attachment 508180

Uh....and this belongs in the middle of a buyer satisfaction poll for what reason???

 

[PilotXT]

I can get on board with it, @SilverOnyx , but I would like a generator style range extender for oh crap moments like the Volt and i3 have.

 

[SilverOnyx]

Mazda is supposedly considering a wankel range extender EV. It's a way to hedge your bets if battery technology doesn't evolve fast enough.

 

[PilotXT]

Yeah, that would be fine. There are places in the state that don’t have the infrastructure yet. Now with the kids driving all over for sports, I don’t want to be in a situation where I am without enough charge.

The nice thing about the generator engine like the Volt is that they’re not subject to emissions things and are super simplistic with no cat, etc. just a little two banger.

 

[SilverOnyx]

conceptually a range extender is simple but reality?

 

[NEPA390]

Only if they had a lifted XT touring.... Would be nice to fit real chanes for the few weeks a year i need them. So i dont have to invest in a second set of tires.

 

[flixden]

I think Subaru will skip over hybrid and go directly to EV for mass production and here's why:

First, the only efficiency that a non-plug-in Hybrid has, is that it captures BRAKING energy. Aside from that, it's dead weight. For a hybrid, the energy loss from wind resistance can't be recovered by the hybrid system, but the braking energy in city driving is recovered and re-used. That's why the city fuel economy of a Hybrid is greater than it's highway fuel economy. The beauty of this system is that you don't need to worry about plugging it in - you bypass the charging infrastructure issue.

In a hybrid vehicle you have twin powertrains - internal combustion + mechanical drivetrain + electric motor so you have greater complexity not less, and you still have to change the oil, deal with transmission issues, go to the gas station.

In a plug-in hybrid, you have a beefier electric motor, and beefier batteries, but you still also have that internal combustion motor and mechanical drivetrain. Now you need to take advantage of an electric charging infrastructure to fill the battery at home or at an EV station, AND you have to go to the gas station to fill up. Twin primary power sources, twin kinds of fuel needed.

In a pure EV you no longer have to go to the gas station, no longer need to change oil, transmission fluid - it's simpler than any hybrid, more reliable, and you can charge it at home every night. The primary obstacle to mass EV adoption is expensive batteries and this continues to improve. In 5-10 years we will potentially have a battery technology that bypasses today's lithium batteries, not just a few percent improvement, but it could be a game changer but this remains to be seen. The promise is of what they are calling "solid state" batteries. Toyota claims to have them. Subaru is now a part of the Toyota group and they are co-developing their EV. Volkswagen is also getting into solid state batteries. So once the battery nut is cracked, internal combustion engines will no longer make economic sense, even in a hybrid.

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News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication

www.ft.com

I agree with what you are saying, but I am also sure that new battery technology resulting in 500+ mile ranges won't be affordable before say 10-15 years, maybe even 20. Note that I used the word "affordable" - I am sure we'll see 500 mile + range EVs before then, but at a stiff premium.
In the meantime, ICEs won't suddenly disappear, and gas stations won't either. That's why I think that hybrid technology, and especially PHEV makes sense for the time being, and for new purchases right now.
At 40-50 mile ranges in EV (electric only) mode, a plug-in hybrid can cover most people's daily drives needs while eliminating range anxiety. I am expecting that 80% of our driving with the R4P will be in electric mode, cutting our annual fuel costs by more than half at current prices, and even better if/when gas prices go up.
Add the 300hp fun factor and a price that's barely higher than our Outback Premiums, I think it makes sense for us, and for right now.

 

[NEPA390]

I think Subaru will skip over hybrid and go directly to EV for mass production and here's why:

First, the only efficiency that a non-plug-in Hybrid has, is that it captures BRAKING energy. Aside from that, it's dead weight. For a hybrid, the energy loss from wind resistance can't be recovered by the hybrid system, but the braking energy in city driving is recovered and re-used. That's why the city fuel economy of a Hybrid is greater than it's highway fuel economy. The beauty of this system is that you don't need to worry about plugging it in - you bypass the charging infrastructure issue.

In a hybrid vehicle you have twin powertrains - internal combustion + mechanical drivetrain + electric motor so you have greater complexity not less, and you still have to change the oil, deal with transmission issues, go to the gas station.

In a plug-in hybrid, you have a beefier electric motor, and beefier batteries, but you still also have that internal combustion motor and mechanical drivetrain. Now you need to take advantage of an electric charging infrastructure to fill the battery at home or at an EV station, AND you have to go to the gas station to fill up. Twin primary power sources, twin kinds of fuel needed.

In a pure EV you no longer have to go to the gas station, no longer need to change oil, transmission fluid - it's simpler than any hybrid, more reliable, and you can charge it at home every night. The primary obstacle to mass EV adoption is expensive batteries and this continues to improve. In 5-10 years we will potentially have a battery technology that bypasses today's lithium batteries, not just a few percent improvement, but it could be a game changer but this remains to be seen. The promise is of what they are calling "solid state" batteries. Toyota claims to have them. Subaru is now a part of the Toyota group and they are co-developing their EV. Volkswagen is also getting into solid state batteries. So once the battery nut is cracked, internal combustion engines will no longer make economic sense, even in a hybrid.

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication

www.ft.com

Ev wont work where I am too rural. Power goes out a few times a month from weather. A short outrage is 24 hours... the longet was 5 weeks from an ice storm... The power grid in rural places is still all above ground. I dont think they plan to put it underground any time soon. I am so rural i dont get home mail delivery . i have to drive 12 miles to the post office one way.