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Subaru just recently FINALLY allowed 0.9 financing in ALL Outback including Onyx! errrhhhh 馃槧 I only bought lest than 2 weeks ago.


Starting a new thread on this, seems like the "MSRP/Invoice/Purchase Price/Extended warranty thread" is not the right place, we got a bit off topic there.



MSRP is $32,420
Negotiated sale price is 28,850
2.5i Premium
10k miles or 12k miles

The actual miles driven will not impact the original contract, and will not change the final purchase price, correct?

Question for @3Series : what should I aim for in terms of down payment ($0 is my guess), monthly payment for 36 months and purchase price at lease end?
Let's not include taxes and fees.
I do have a total of $1,000 in coupons.

Thanks for anybody's help!
 

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2005 Outback XT.
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I have started a spreadsheet with the MF and residual from the Edmunds site, and using the leasehack calculator.

I am only looking at the scenario where I buy the car at the end of the lease.
Using the leasehackr calc and the inputs MF and residual, I am getting total cost numbers that are around $750 - $780 above the total sales price, no matter how many miles I enter (and that makes sense, I think). I am keeping taxes and fees separate for this exercise.
By "total cost" I mean: sum of monthly payments + down payment + residual value (the cost to buy the car at the lease end).
The finance cost over 4 years at 0.9% is $591, that's $200 less than the leasing-and-buying number. Not all that much of a difference, but buying would be the easier thing to do in that case.
Leasing has the advantage of leaving me with more options (walking away after 3 years if I don't like the car for whatever reason).
Keep in mind, if you don't like the car after 3 years, you still have options. You can sell it. OBs hold their value pretty well. You might not get the full residual value calculated, but you aren't going to be completely screwed either.
 

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2016 2.5i
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Discussion Starter #23
First off, how can YOU confirm that all of the information is 100% accurate?

Ultimately my issue has to do with the fact of why should anyone who would legitimately have access to such information divulge it if they stand to gain nothing from it? And I am not aware of any dealerships anywhere that openly divulge such information because again it is not in their interest to do so.

And yes it is confidential information, I have worked for Subaru in recent years and had access to such information. It is clearly written alongside this information when it is disseminated every month that it is for dealership personnel only. Now if there are people who are outing this information that is another story but again how would the person divulging the information benefit?

Furthermore when people receiving the information state that it is inaccurate who are we to believe? The allure of having access to exclusive information can get those divulging said info attention they may be seeking and make those on the receiving end feel like they are special.

Where we get into trouble is when unrealistic expectations are created, I have had no shortage of people get upset with me in business or online when I burst their bubble over crap they have read online or influenced by otherwise. "But so and so in Alabama is selling a $40,000 vehicle for $20,000 so you should to!" Or how about someone that gets a good old fashioned BSing online and they bring it to me to deal with. And it is ALWAYS the person who has to burst their bubble who is the lying, cheating, stealing bad guy because they just refuse to do what I have been erroneously lead to believe otherwise.

And you know what, not one single business need meet any customers demands. There has to be mutual agreement for business to occur.
I can see your point.
However, I feel like I can use information like that to set realistic expectations before walking into the dealer's finance office. I will not hold the dealer responsible for such numbers though, except for anything that the dealer has promised before me placing the order.

I remember when I had factory ordered my 2012 F-150. There was a guy in a Ford forum who had access to the tracking info once vehicles left the factory. He had a sticky going where he would respond to inquiries based in VIN number, and I had created a google map tracking my truck across the country. :) As far as I know, that guy also did not benefit from providing that information in any way - people just do it .....
 

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I have started a spreadsheet with the MF and residual from the Edmunds site, and using the leasehack calculator.

I am only looking at the scenario where I buy the car at the end of the lease.
Using the leasehackr calc and the inputs MF and residual, I am getting total cost numbers that are around $750 - $780 above the total sales price, no matter how many miles I enter (and that makes sense, I think). I am keeping taxes and fees separate for this exercise.
By "total cost" I mean: sum of monthly payments + down payment + residual value (the cost to buy the car at the lease end).
The finance cost over 4 years at 0.9% is $591, that's $200 less than the leasing-and-buying number. Not all that much of a difference, but buying would be the easier thing to do in that case.
Leasing has the advantage of leaving me with more options (walking away after 3 years if I don't like the car for whatever reason).
down payment on a lease should always be zero - you total the car in a month and you just subsidized your insurance
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Keep in mind, if you don't like the car after 3 years, you still have options. You can sell it. OBs hold their value pretty well. You might not get the full residual value calculated, but you aren't going to be completely screwed either.
True. That's why I'll go for the best deal in the end.
 

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I've confirmed with the two dealerships I've been working at, or at the ver
First off, how can YOU confirm that all of the information is 100% accurate?

Ultimately my issue has to do with the fact of why should anyone who would legitimately have access to such information divulge it if they stand to gain nothing from it? And I am not aware of any dealerships anywhere that openly divulge such information because again it is not in their interest to do so.

And yes it is confidential information, I have worked for Subaru in recent years and had access to such information. It is clearly written alongside this information when it is disseminated every month that it is for dealership personnel only. Now if there are people who are outing this information that is another story but again how would the person divulging the information benefit?

Furthermore when people receiving the information state that it is inaccurate who are we to believe? The allure of having access to exclusive information can get those divulging said info attention they may be seeking and make those on the receiving end feel like they are special.

Where we get into trouble is when unrealistic expectations are created, I have had no shortage of people get upset with me in business or online when I burst their bubble over crap they have read online or influenced by otherwise. "But so and so in Alabama is selling a $40,000 vehicle for $20,000 so you should to!" Or how about someone that gets a good old fashioned BSing online and they bring it to me to deal with. And it is ALWAYS the person who has to burst their bubble who is the lying, cheating, stealing bad guy because they just refuse to do what I have been erroneously lead to believe otherwise.

And you know what, not one single business need meet any customers demands. There has to be mutual agreement for business to occur.

Not sure I'm following you here. The info I've been provided for 60618 has been consistent for all Forester and Outback trims for all Chicagoland and NW Indiana dealers I've worked with that I did not immediately give up on (which was those off by 50-60+ a month). That info is literally typed up on the worksheets after negotiating sale price, getting their best monthly out the door payment offer, and then informing the dealership with a base MF of X they can do better. Now my experience is limited to my zip code, but again, it's right there on the worksheets anyways. Perhaps some people responding on that forum are inaccurate, but it has not been my experience these last couple months for my zip code.

I see no issue with a consumer being informed about possibilities and being armed with info for negotiations. The fact that multiple dealers in my area did no more than say they'd "check with a gm", only to get back to me 30 min later in email confirming "sure we can do that" tells me the info is accurate and there is still plenty of meat on the bone for them with those figures.

Now I did go into it in the first place with 0 expectations that the info was accurate, as leasing was new to me in the first place. So as with everything on the internet, YMMV.
 

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Ultimately my issue has to do with the fact of why should anyone who would legitimately have access to such information divulge it if they stand to gain nothing from it? And I am not aware of any dealerships anywhere that openly divulge such information because again it is not in their interest to do so.

And yes it is confidential information, I have worked for Subaru in recent years and had access to such information. It is clearly written alongside this information when it is disseminated every month that it is for dealership personnel only. Now if there are people who are outing this information that is another story but again how would the person divulging the information benefit?
I have asked two dealers for the money factor, they both have given it to me without any hassle. If all the other details of lease are disclosed it can be calculated.

If the dealer does not want to disclose it, you can go through the motions of getting lease pricing and the details.
 

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Here鈥檚 my lease experience story. I have leased 2 Ford Explorers & 1 Subaru WRX. If you like driving a car till the wheels fall off or think you get some value from it after that then don鈥檛 lease obviously. There is so much lease misinformation it鈥檚 crazy. In my opinion the only stipulation that should be a concern is mileage. If you drive a pile of miles. You should probably buy.

鈥 have never paid a dime to return a lease vehicle however I have always gotten another lease.

鈥xtra money paid for wear and tear just isn鈥檛 a thing unless you completely trash these vehicles. A cheap in and out clean at a local car wash before you return does wonders. Both Ford and Subaru are very generous with scratches and dents.

WHY WE LEASE:
Both my wife and I drive around 5-10 minutes to work and don鈥檛 really go out of town that much. My Subaru lease is 16k under the 30 allotted. Our first Explorer was 11k under the 31500 allotted. We have 2 kids and appreciate 3 years of warranty and free roadside assistance not to mention a vehicle you basically don鈥檛 have to worry about.

I have a factory order in for a 2020 Outback. Once it arrives I will drop my WRX off, sign my papers, and drive away in my new car. I love always having a new car and understand I will always have a payment that results in little or no equity to me. I wanted another WRX but after comparing the residual value & money factor to an Outback it didn鈥檛 make sense. These numbers were easily available from my dealer but of course could change slightly between the time I order my car and it arrives.

Another thing to consider based on your state is yearly registration costs. Tabs in MN are mental and I am almost always between $350-$450 on each vehicle per year. It鈥檚 a bit of sticker shock.

One Final Story: Our 2016 Explorer has seized rear calipers which ford replaced under warranty about 2 months before the end of my lease. This caused the pads to wear which they refused to replace (crazy). They told me it was almost metal on metal. I said that鈥檚 fine I鈥檓 going to drive it till the calipers explode and I鈥檒l return it that way at lease return. So ends up the back breaks were shot and the week before lease return there was some steering gear that stripped. I dropped the vehicle off totally broken, made an appointment for warranty work ($2500), and drove away in my new lease. Zero issues.

Like another forum member said I honestly believe the folks that complain about and trash leases are folks that should have never leased in the first place or have some serious misinformation. Like I said not right for some people at all. For me I don鈥檛 foresee myself ever not leasing unless my commute situation changes drastically.

Happy to answer any questions folks may have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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@codefreak13 messaged me and I will share with you, in part, what I expressed to them:

I apologize as I know I can come across as a jerk online, it is not my intent to argue with you or anyone else but rather just make those utilizing this website aware that certain information shared here may not be applicable insofar as their efforts to acquire a vehicle are concerned.


For my part I do want to help people realize that they are not buying a car or approved for a finance rate from some random person on the internet, I say that because I have had no shortage of customers come to me with random information and the expectation that we will fall all over ourselves to validate that information and give the customer whatever they want.

You can know (or think you know) the lease rate on some vehicle you want to get and let's say you shop 20 different dealerships and none come close to what you think the rate is, what then?

I have seen too many people get fixated on things like this or getting some extraordinary discount to the point that actually accomplishing the end of driving the vehicle home seemingly does not matter unless all the stars align and all their demands are met.
 

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Great discussion about lease vs finance. Been wondering about leasing since my wifey likes to buy. I think also, if i were me, i would lease an especially high end car like Aston or XJs as, if we bought, after warranty - these cars are a beastly $$$$ to fix, imho.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Yeah, lot's of great information!
I am still doing research and learning more. Thanks to EVERYONE who is contributing to this thread!
 

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I leased primarily because I was worried whether I would like the Outback after mostly being in regular SUVs and trucks for so long. Buying it and ending up trading it back in after three years would probably be as much or more of a financial hit than leasing. And because I ended up liking my Outback it worked out even better for me. Had I financed it right now I would be three years into the loan with two or three years of payments left. As it was, with the lease payments being lower than what a loan payment would have been, I started putting that difference in savings every month. Along with that I had traded in my previous vehicle on my leased Outback but took that money back in cash rather than applying it to the lease. Seeing that amount accumulating pretty quickly gave me extra incentive to try to save enough to be able to buy my Outback for cash at the end of the lease, which is what I did last month. So at 35 months into driving my Outback I owned it free and clear with no more payments.

Had I just financed it at the beginning the higher payments would have made it more difficult to save any extra to pay it off much earlier, and I wouldn't have had that accumulated savings to inspire me to start putting even more away. So at this same point I would still have owed quite a bit with at least a couple more years of big payments left. I'm sure in the end the lease and eventual purchase cost me a little bit more than buying outright, but that amount was worth my being able to "test drive" the car for long enough to be certain I wanted to keep it.

People talk about leasing as just renting a vehicle, but if you are financing it you are really still just renting the same vehicle from the bank. I won't lease again unless I have a similar reason as the last time. I missed being able to modify and upgrade stuff as I wanted to, though that probably saved me some additional money in accessory purchases for the first three years.
 

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Leasing is basically just a different cash flow. Purchase a car with the 36 month residual value as down payment and your payment would be what lease payment would be with just 1st month due at signing.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Leasing is basically just a different cash flow. Purchase a car with the 36 month residual value as down payment and your payment would be what lease payment would be with just 1st month due at signing.
Yeah, pretty much so.
I used to be a pretty strict against leasing, but have changed my opinion since looking into it in more detail.
It's just another financial tool, and if you are using it for the right reasons and correctly, then it may be to your advantage.
If the only reason to lease is the lower monthly payments, then leasing is probably not the best idea though.
 

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If the only reason to lease is the lower monthly payments, then leasing is probably not the best idea though.
And that's why leasing gets a bad rap, because there are SO many people out there that just care about the monthly payment, and really don't know how much more money they are actually spending leasing vs buying and keeping a car for longer.
 

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And that's why leasing gets a bad rap, because there are SO many people out there that just care about the monthly payment, and really don't know how much more money they are actually spending leasing vs buying and keeping a car for longer.
if you dont beat the car , stay under mileage and lease the car of the same value you would buy (not more because the payment is less) then leasing is a great deal - it is to me. I dont mind always having a payment - I like having a new car every 3 years. Driving a 7 year old paid off car (maybe) and pumping maintenance and repairs into it is not my idea of using that money wisely. I think if you do the math - all the math - I think maybe you come out paying slightly more leasing - but its worth it
 

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For folks who lease, higher trim/higher end vehicles tend to have better residuals, so the "deal" may be a little better than on a lower trim/lower end vehicle. This is a major reason why leasing "luxury" vehicles is so popular.
 

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if you dont beat the car , stay under mileage and lease the car of the same value you would buy (not more because the payment is less) then leasing is a great deal - it is to me. I dont mind always having a payment - I like having a new car every 3 years. Driving a 7 year old paid off car (maybe) and pumping maintenance and repairs into it is not my idea of using that money wisely. I think if you do the math - all the math - I think maybe you come out paying slightly more leasing - but its worth it
The example you used, driving a 7 year old paid off car that requires lots of maintenance, is an extreme example, and the worst-case scenario for someone who bought the car. I don't know anyone who buys a car every 7 years after putting major repairs into it in the 7th year. That's no way to live. The real comparison between leasing and buying is if you keep the car 10+ years. Now, if you keep that car for 10+ years, you'll come out ahead of even an awesome lease, unless you experience major repairs that are outside the 6 year warrantee.

My OB is 15 years old now. 9+ years without a car payment adds up to a lot of money, even with a few thousand dollars in maintenance. Of course, this is an extreme example as well, and of course it makes more financial sense to buy a car and keep it a long time.

Try putting some numbers into the lease calculator on lease hacker . It will tell you the number of years in which the lease payments exceed the MSRP. The more years, the better the lease. Most people consider a score of 10+ years an extremely good deal. Meaning, you would have to keep that car 10+ if you bought it to beat the lease (this assumes you could get 2 or 3 more leases that were that good in succession, because you are out a car every 3 years). But I would wager most people driving around in a leased car will have a 7 year or even worse score.

Look, there is no way around it. Whether leasing or buying, if someone is driving a fairly new car all the time, they are spending a lot of money on transportation. It's up them if they can afford it or if it's worth it. Leasing gets a bad rap because there are too many people out there who live month to month and just care if they can make that monthly payment. It encourages people to live outside their means by getting a new car every 3 years and not saving.
 

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I hear what you are saying - but how you spend your hard earned money is a personal preference - leasing does not prevent people from saving - it is a way to finance a vehicle for a specific period of time. In fact , not plunking down many thousands of dollars can actually save you money. I can make money using the 25 or 30 K you would use to buy a car cash - so can you. Many people can pay off their homes, pay for their childrens education , live a great life all while leasing a Subaru - its cheaper than leasing Range Rover - its really all relative.
 

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I generally don't like leasing, and have only done it once--when I "bought" my 2013 Legacy. I tend to keep cars a long time and thought about switching to replacing them, so I leased. But then I really loved the Legacy, so I bought it out at the end of the lease. I tried to do the math afterwards, but I'm convinced I missed some payments or something because it seemed like I was hardly charged anything for the three year lease. It seemed crazy. Maybe it was because that was an incentive lease back then. Or maybe it's because the dealer bumped me up a trim level to get the sale. I don't know.

Anyway, I'll probably never lease again, but it's mainly because I do keep cars a long time. I only traded in the 2013 in 2019 because I needed to get a truck. When we were buying the truck we were not happy about getting a new truck as much as we were sad about trading in the Subaru.
 
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