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2011 Outback Limited 2.5i/2018 Crosstrek limited
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I drive between 900 and 1000 km per week...this is what the OB looks like after...depending on the weather...a few days. Sometimes I wonder why I wash it when it will look the same way within 48 hrs...:surprise:
 

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I simply cannot abide useless people.
2006 2.5i and 2002 3.0 wagons.
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Gah! Chicago flashbacks!

Nooooooooooooooooo!
 

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2018 Outback 2.5i Limited, Crimson Red Pearl
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123 Posts
A pox on road salt & brine!
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
2002 3.0 VDC Wag + 2018 2.5 Leg Ltd
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26,473 Posts
I had a thought today,

taking my powerplants and drivetrains out of my rusted shells, and putting them in stainless steel Deloreans. (and "trying" to maintain the AWD,....somehow).

I think 2002 subaru power maybe better then the 2.8 130hp v6 that was in the rear originally...

 

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2018 Outback 2.5i Limited, Crimson Red Pearl
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I had a thought today, taking my powerplants and drivetrains out of my rusted shells, and putting them in stainless steel Deloreans.
I thought Deloreans all came with flux capacitors? :grin2:
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
2002 3.0 VDC Wag + 2018 2.5 Leg Ltd
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I thought Deloreans all came with flux capacitors? :grin2:
I don't know if all,....I had one around october of 1985, but it disappeared one night.

had a report of it being found around october of 2015, but it vanished again.
 

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2008 OB Limited 2.5i, Portland OR USA
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2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5)
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2,298 Posts
Gah! Chicago flashbacks!

Nooooooooooooooooo!
Yeah, I just had Lafayette flashbacks seeing that picture, too.

While the temperature is doing a bit of a yo-yo right now, where tomorrow it's going to be 36 on Wednesday ... it's 75 today.
 

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2006 Wagon 2.5i M/T
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That is what we have to put up with in these snowy regions we live in.
Well, we don't have to entirely put up with it. The amounts of salt used in the NE and Midwest US states and a number of area of Canada (Toronto) has increased enormously over what used to be adequate 20-30 years ago.

The economic backstory of all this salt usage goes to the lucrative underground salt-mining businesses in the huge Sulurian rock-salt seams of western New York, S.Ontario, Ohio and Michigan. They even have big salt mines underneath the bed of Lake Erie. As more is mined, the price drops, so the mines need to sell more of it, and under a lot of hard-sell campaigns from the mines, local governments buy more and more of the stuff.

In snowy Rocky Mt. US states far from any rock-salt deposits, you hardly ever see road salt used and somehow, civilization continues.

If drivers use proper tires and drive appropiately just prompt ploughing, and if needed, traction aids (cinders or sand) is perfectly adequate for lower-temperatures below -10C/14F or so), and salt should be reserved for ice and icy wet snows or steep hills. And especially, people in the US really need to rediscover snow tires. My little 2wd Smart Electric with winter tires goes in snow probably 80-90 percent as well as my Outback with "all season" tires.

Maybe some areas need mandatory winter tire laws like they have in Europe.

**And if it is doing that to your car, think of what it is doing to local streams. The snowier parts of the Pennsylvania Turnpike have swaths of dead forest on the downwind sides of the road from blowing salt spray and dust.
 

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85BRAT97SVX03Baja5mtHonda's
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probably don't want to crawl under any old delorean kept outside. The body panels werent the issue, but EVERYTHING else is/was. Bet the frame is swiss cheese.
Even when brand new, the DeLorean was not evena. good car. I remember back in 87 a guy wanted to trade me his low miles 15k mile DeLorean for my old 64 SS Chevelle. Even I knew back then what the better car was.

The thing I do, is have a winter-only car with AWD and snow tires, i drive it end Oct thru end march, then park it, Then I drive my Summer only car April to Oct, it never gets out in snow ore salt and will last my lifetime. I have backups of each, meaning i have a backup winter car with AWD, and have backup summer only cars.

Right now my winter only car hasn't been washed in weeks, and I don't really care. Body will last another 10-15 years same as drivetrain. Then I will do the same over. I plan to have the same summer only cars another 30 years.
 

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2008 OB Limited 2.5i, Portland OR USA
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What @Yunzer said.

Here in Oregon, the mountain passes are plowed and sanded, and it's funded by snow park permits. Sand and grit does tend to punish the painted surfaces, but at least it's not a cancer agent attacking the metals in you car like salt is.

And there's no downhill runoff problem - it's only sand.

But here in Portland, the city has proclaimed that they'll start using salt instead of sand, as it's much more economical. We haven't had an event yet to need it, but it's only a matter of time.

I plan to stay off the roads until it's cleared off by rain whenever that happens. We have a pretty-good mass transit system where I live.
 

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2017 Outback 2.5i Limited
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Wow, I don't envy that car wash schedule. We haven't had enough rain in the past 2 months in OKC to need to even wash my car. They do get dusty if you have to park outside, though.

Don't think they've had to use any salt at all so far this winter.
 

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2016 Outback 3.6R Limited
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Well, we don't have to entirely put up with it. ....

....If drivers use proper tires and drive appropiately..... .

Unfortunately, the skills of drivers have diminished over the years and weather exacerbates that deficiency. Simple road maintenance would still be too challenging for weak drivers. Too many people in SUVs believe that 4wheel drive or AWD are the answer to slippery roads. It is true they help to get a vehicle moving in low traction situations, but do nothing to stop it under those same conditions.

To the post point, Big salt still has the cheapest option. It is readily available in large quantities. This narrative was pushed on the Great Lakes states for decades. Less corrosive ice melt options would obviously be better but it ultimately boils down to cost.


Cheers!
 

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Well, we don't have to entirely put up with it. The amounts of salt used in the NE and Midwest US states and a number of area of Canada (Toronto) has increased enormously over what used to be adequate 20-30 years ago.

The economic backstory of all this salt usage goes to the lucrative underground salt-mining businesses in the huge Sulurian rock-salt seams of western New York, S.Ontario, Ohio and Michigan. They even have big salt mines underneath the bed of Lake Erie. As more is mined, the price drops, so the mines need to sell more of it, and under a lot of hard-sell campaigns from the mines, local governments buy more and more of the stuff.

In snowy Rocky Mt. US states far from any rock-salt deposits, you hardly ever see road salt used and somehow, civilization continues.

If drivers use proper tires and drive appropiately just prompt ploughing, and if needed, traction aids (cinders or sand) is perfectly adequate for lower-temperatures below -10C/14F or so), and salt should be reserved for ice and icy wet snows or steep hills. And especially, people in the US really need to rediscover snow tires. My little 2wd Smart Electric with winter tires goes in snow probably 80-90 percent as well as my Outback with "all season" tires.

Maybe some areas need mandatory winter tire laws like they have in Europe.

**And if it is doing that to your car, think of what it is doing to local streams. The snowier parts of the Pennsylvania Turnpike have swaths of dead forest on the downwind sides of the road from blowing salt spray and dust.
NH has substantially reduced the use of salt for several decades and has enacted salt-free zones to protect ground water in certain areas....there is far more use of sand...more than really needed... during prior winters, NH used to salt the roads like they owned the mines. I don't know what Maine's position on road salt is but in the spring and summer you can observe a lot of trees along their highways with salt damage from road traffic wash....

Interesting footnote. Back in the late 70's while diving off Bonaire, there were litterally mountains of salt produced by enormous evaporation lagoons - that was earmarked for use as road salt.
 

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Interesting footnote. Back in the late 70's while diving off Bonaire, there were litterally mountains of salt produced by enormous evaporation lagoons - that was earmarked for use as road salt.
Yeah, back when I worked in the oil patch in Venezuela in the early '80s , nearby Bonaire was my regular get-away place to go scuba diving. I stayed at Capt. Don's Habitat. In those days they had basic rooms for just $10. The late Capt. Don was quite a character and I often was at his table at suppertime or at the bar over a lot of Amstels.

Maybe you know this, but you would not recognize the reefs there now. All the staghorn and elkhorn coral forests are dead now - in fact, these corals are now critically endangered species from white band disease and coral bleaching from excessive water temperature - which killed a lot of the other corals (and with them, much of the fish life) too. Young people getting into diving today will never know what healthy coral reef looks like - they are all gone.

And back to the topic, I do recall the evaporative solar salt works of Bonaire - but it is hard to believe that it would be used for road salt as the salt produced is not going to be the hard rock salt of the geologically ancient deposits in New York and they are awful far from where any road salt would be used.
 

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Perhaps, but that's what we were told back then..... it certainly wasn't for table salt? I remember Capt'n Don......certainly a character... we were in a group of 40 or so divers staying at the then new Flamingo..... Amstel was very cheap...too cheap LOL lots of tiny bubbles....LOL

It's a shame to hear of the loss of the Bonaire reefs...... it was an amazing experience diving there....including the flying fish trying to keep pace with the pontoon boats heading back to the dock at the end of the day....IIRC there was a underwater site called Alice in Wonderland??? With large mushroom like coral. I did several night dives and a deep dive (215ft) while there for two weeks in 1979.
 

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probably don't want to crawl under any old delorean kept outside. The body panels werent the issue, but EVERYTHING else is/was. Bet the frame is swiss cheese.
Even when brand new, the DeLorean was not evena. good car. I remember back in 87 a guy wanted to trade me his low miles 15k mile DeLorean for my old 64 SS Chevelle. Even I knew back then what the better car was.

The thing I do, is have a winter-only car with AWD and snow tires, i drive it end Oct thru end march, then park it, Then I drive my Summer only car April to Oct, it never gets out in snow ore salt and will last my lifetime. I have backups of each, meaning i have a backup winter car with AWD, and have backup summer only cars.

Right now my winter only car hasn't been washed in weeks, and I don't really care. Body will last another 10-15 years same as drivetrain. Then I will do the same over. I plan to have the same summer only cars another 30 years.
And then you look and realize your 80 years !years old.
 

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Keeping the roads salted is a cheap enough way for the government folks to give the appearance that they really care about their constituents so much that they will do anything to keep them safe. Sending an army of plow trucks out at the first sign of a few snowflakes also sends that same message while keeping the municipal workers happy who are collecting mucho OT at time and a half.


Everyone is happy, except vehicle owners who have to deal with salt and rust issues. The folks that will call city hall to complain if the roads aren't down to dry & clear asphalt as soon as the snow stops are generally those leasing cars for three years who don't worry about rust and maintenance. We can try to teach everyone how to drive in snow and ice without salted roads, but it is difficult to buck the system we now have in place. Maybe someday after I retire to a place without snow.
 
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