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2019 Subaru Forester Premium, Crystal Black Silica, Pkg 15
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

I managed to get RomRaider going today with the generic VAG COM cable I bought on Amazon. It works! I'm able to see the ATF temperature (primary goal) and noticed that the knock count seems to be elevated - a lot - on Cylinder 2.

I googled the term and found that C4 is usually indicative of an engine failure related to oil leaks, C2 could possibly be a false alarm because of its proximity to the knock sensor.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Aside from the random "stutter" but not stall when I come to a complete stop, I have zero performance issues I'm able to perceive from the car.

The fuel I use is always 87, usually filled from Costco (Top Tier). If not Costco, I use Shell 87.

I'll upload the CSV when I can - the laptop I'm on doesn't have Excel, whoops. But, here's a screen shot of the file. The duration of the drive was short, only about a mile back home from the store.
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
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That's alot of knocking for a short trip. Upload the csv file. Also I would like you to add some parameters.

AF Correction
AF learning
AF sensor #1
Feedback Knock Correction
Fine Learning Knock Correction
Ignition Timing
MAF
Manifold Relative Pressure
Throttle Opening Angle.
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
2002 Pair: 3.0 VDC Wag & 2.5 Limited Sedan
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what kind of miles on this car?

other things to look into: a new OEM PCV valve. (give better base line data,...and does not appear at all on the maint. schedule despite it being a wear part).
 

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Discussion Starter #4
That's alot of knocking for a short trip. Upload the csv file. Also I would like you to add some parameters.

AF Correction
AF learning
AF sensor #1
Feedback Knock Correction
Fine Learning Knock Correction
Ignition Timing
MAF
Manifold Relative Pressure
Throttle Opening Angle.
Alright. I’ll focus on these on Sunday morning when I head into work. I’ll post the CSV as soon as I can. Am I looking for something in particular?

what kind of miles on this car?

other things to look into: a new OEM PCV valve. (give better base line data,...and does not appear at all on the maint. schedule despite it being a wear part).
Funny you mention that. I have an OEM PCV in my tool cabinet but haven’t swapped it because it’s not a scheduled part. I got it in a package with an accessory belt and tensioner last summer. Did the belt/tensioner but not the PCV yet.

Car is just about 85k.
 

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Knock sum by cylinder!

I don't have that for my H4 but I do get fairly high knock sum (total) counts.

The recorded knocks are in the left side cylinders, with cylinder two higher. Cylinder two is further away from the knock sensor than cylinder 4. Looks as if something is happening on the left side.

That said, I somewhat doubt the knocking is related to the random stuttering at a stop.

I'll be watching this closely . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #6
@traildogck Here's the CSV's I have now. I'll get the other columns on Sunday Morning...
@plain OM Thanks. Anything special other than what TD is looking for?

The plugs were changed at the 60k service, I did it at an independent shop, but I insisted they use the OEM parts. Do I honestly know they were changed? Well, I trusted the mechanic, no reason not to if that had something to do with it.

Thanks.
 

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Can you post the RR .csv file itself? It can be posted by "zipping" it and then attach to a post. Recent Windows versions have a zip utility built in.

(When I view the .pdf, the time frame is only 5 seconds (4998 ms.)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
@plain OM

That might have been my fault. I am still getting used to the UI. I have a bunch of ZIPs from today. I think it might be a little wonky when I first tried it because it went from 66 F ATF Temperature to 400 something, which obviously is not accurate.

I think the weirdness was happening when I was clicking between the ECU TCU modes.

I've set everything up for tomorrow morning and I'll drive to a local shop for breakfast with the parameters Traildog mentioned... We'll see what's up, hopefully.

For what it's worth, I just passed NJ State Inspection this week, so I had no pending codes and the emissions checked out okay.
 

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A few observations:

In the screen shot attached earlier, at the lower right there's an indication of "slow-k" polling. For the number of parameters being monitored in the screenshot, the polling can be far faster. There's a menu item in the drop down lists at the top left to set it to Fast Polling. It will increase the size of the files, but also provide more detail about short events.

Also, when logging (i.e., recording) don't change (add, remove) the parameters being recorded (the ones checked off). If the list is incorrect, stop the logging (this will generate a saved .csv file that you can delete after), correct the list, and then start logging again. Otherwise, the log that's produced has discontinuities that make the data series problematic. Similarly, when logging, don't switch between ECU and TCU. (There should be no problem changing the parameters, or switching between ECU and TCU when RR is only displaying info, but not logging.)

Add the parameters that traildogck suggested to the list of parameters that were already running in the attached screenshot.

And, finally, where there's more than one readout option, e.g. IAM, IAM 1byte and IAM 4byte, choose just one.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Very good. Will post tomorrow with my findings. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So, I don't think it's pulling any data in Fast mode. These CSV files are all 1 kilobyte long.

I'll try it again if I go out later today, otherwise I'll hit it again tomorrow on the way to work. I also noticed on the Knock Sum columns that Cylinder 2 tends to go up a lot when I'm in park, idling. I think I was around or under 7 the ride home from the store today, but once I parked in my driveway and let it idle for a few seconds, it went up past 30.
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
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So, I don't think it's pulling any data in Fast mode. These CSV files are all 1 kilobyte long.

I'll try it again if I go out later today, otherwise I'll hit it again tomorrow on the way to work. I also noticed on the Knock Sum columns that Cylinder 2 tends to go up a lot when I'm in park, idling. I think I was around or under 7 the ride home from the store today, but once I parked in my driveway and let it idle for a few seconds, it went up past 30.
Fast poling mode should work. I am not sure about the 1KB thing, it seems to happen sometimes. As usual make sure all of your connections are good. Sometimes, some combinations of parameters mess with the amount of data that can be logged. it will usually show an error along the lower status bar.

Make sure to use the same (byte) options as was suggested for IAM and any other combinations
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Fast poling mode should work. I am not sure about the 1KB thing, it seems to happen sometimes. As usual make sure all of your connections are good. Sometimes, some combinations of parameters mess with the amount of data that can be logged. it will usually show an error along the lower status bar.

Make sure to use the same (byte) options as was suggested for IAM and any other combinations
Okay, I tried to connect it with FP mode again while I was idling in the driveway for a few minutes. Here's the CSV file, if you don't mind taking a look. I'll repeat the process again tomorrow on my drive to work.

Is there a way to have the ATF Temperature pulled while I'm getting the data to troubleshoot this knocksum thing also, or does RR only have the ability to do either ECU or TCU at one point?

Thanks all.
@plain OM - Thanks
 

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Just opened it and there's data! Going to have a closer look . . .

No, there's no way to have AT data at the same time as engine data, and that applies even to the dealer's Subaru Select Monitor.

Okay, log isn't showing anything particularly strange other than cylinders 2 and 4 knock counts.

I don't have cylinder-by-cylinder knock counts available on my 07 (as far as I know) so have no reference to what might be abnormal with the H4. (Wish I did to deal with my own knock situation.) Because the knock sensor is on the left side, and because it could be sensitive to even minor knock or mechanical movement (e.g. exhaust hitting something, heat shields), these cylinder-by-cylinder knock counts might not be significant, especially during idling.

For tomorrow, add in the missing parameters to complete the picture. Let us know if any of them are not available in the RR list.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just opened it and there's data! Going to have a closer look . . .

No, there's no way to have AT data at the same time as engine data, and that applies even to the dealer's Subaru Select Monitor.

Okay, log isn't showing anything particularly strange other than cylinders 2 and 4 knock counts.

I don't have cylinder-by-cylinder knock counts available on my 07 (as far as I know) so have no reference to what might be abnormal with the H4. (Wish I did to deal with my own knock situation.) Because the knock sensor is on the left side, and because it could be sensitive to even minor knock or mechanical movement (e.g. exhaust hitting something, heat shields), these cylinder-by-cylinder knock counts might not be significant, especially during idling.

For tomorrow, add in the missing parameters to complete the picture. Let us know if any of them are not available in the RR list.
Ok. What did you want me to add other than what @traildogck suggested?
 

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Is Feedback Knock Correction available? It's the immediate correction being applied when the ECM detects knock. If there's no FKC when knocks are detected, then the ECM isn't considering them significant.
Restore one of the IAM parameters (the simple IAM is fine).

On reflection . . . also

Rear O2 Sensor (V)
A/F Correction #3

To deal with the low idle/stall, start the log as you approach a stop, and stop logging after you stop and whatever might happen, happens. That will keep the logs relatively short and focused on the initial problem time frame.

Could also run the recording for a minute or so when cruising steadily, and also during a very heavy acceleration, if the opportunity is there.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Is Feedback Knock Correction available? It's the immediate correction being applied when the ECM detects knock. If there's no FKC when knocks are detected, then the ECM isn't considering them significant.
Restore one of the IAM parameters (the simple IAM is fine).

On reflection . . . also

Rear O2 Sensor (V)
A/F Correction #3

To deal with the low idle/stall, start the log as you approach a stop, and stop logging after you stop and whatever might happen, happens. That will keep the logs relatively short and focused on the initial problem time frame.

Could also run the recording for a minute or so when cruising steadily, and also during a very heavy acceleration, if the opportunity is there.
Got it. A quick google of the missing "Feedback Knock Correction" reveals that this a Subaru specific PID that won't appear until I actually connect to it. I have been setting the parameters for RR to monitor at home the day/night before I drive, so that's why I was missing it. So, I'll try to remember to do that when I plug into the OBD tomorrow.

We just got 6-8 inches of snow here, so as long as I can shovel in a timely manner while the car warms up, I'll go for it.

I found the other items you added, and I also added my oil temperature and my ATF temperature in there too for the moment. Curious at what point in my commute does the oil actually come up to proper temperature, same with ATF. I might even speculate the ATF doesn't even come up to proper 160 F in the time it takes me to get to work (20ish minutes, 10 miles)

Thanks. Will post the CSV from work tomorrow if I get the opportunity. Much appreciated.

Looking forward to hooning around unplowed highways to work tomorrow. :D
 

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@Pilot1226

Yes, FKC is an extended parameter, but your ECU is "defined" and RR is already showing some extended parameters (e.g., the Knock Sum by cylinders) so it should be available in the check-off list when connected to the ECU.

Engine oil temperature should begin to go up shortly after the engine starts, but as you noted, it will take a while reach engine operating temperature. The sensor is in the AVLS hydraulic system which is up on and external to the heads, rather than being somewhere in the engine block area where the temperatures tend to be much higher. It also will depend on the external temperature, again, because of the exposure.

The ATF temperature is even slower. For example, yesterday, in a 7 mile city drive, the ATF in my 4AT reached only about 100 F with outside temp around 32 F. The CVT might be different and it would also depend on the type of driving, incl. number of stops, rates of acceleration, and hills, because the major source of heat is the torque converter. However, I agree; the ATF probably won't be up to operating temperature at the end of your drive.

Which brings me to some additions to yesterday's post.

Please add Vehicle Speed to the ECU list of monitored/recorded parameters.

Also, switch RR to the TCU and set it up to log all the Parameters available (under the Parameters tab, not any "Switches") when RR is connected to the TCU. I don't think it's a long list, based on what others have reported. Then, if you're able to get the engine to hesitate/stall when stopping and recording the ECU, try it again while recording the TCU parameters. I raise this because there's a known issue with the early CVT torque converters (TC). I'm not sure if this was raised in your other threads, but it's not uncommon for the engine rpm to be pulled down during a rapid stop. It's caused by the TC lockup clutch not releasing due to a mechanical wear problem. Subaru revised the design, issued a Technical Service Bulletin, and has been replacing the faulty TCs. When logging the TCU parameters including Wheel Speed, Engine rpm, and Turbine rpm, if the torque converter doesn't release as the car approaches a stop, the Turbine speed and Engine speed I suspect would remain close and go down below normal engine idle (~650 rpm) whereas normally the turbine goes to zero with the car stopped, but the engine should be disengaged from the turbine by the TC clutch releasing and remain at or above idle before the car reaches zero mph. In addition, if there is a problem in the TC, I expect we would see the Lockup Duty Cycle drop to ~5% as the throttle is released and the car slows down (not sure about the CVT management, so this is based on my 4AT), but the turbine and engine rpm remain the same whereas they should divert when the duty cycle drops down and the clutch should be disengaging.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
RR attached for drive to work today. Will read above on a break.
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
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Precursory look here. You probably have an intake leak FLK is bouncing around both positive and negative. Ideally that line is flat. Dips to -1.41 or -2.35 a few times during hard accelerations can be normal. However positive and negative swings and drops into the -5s it's pinging alright.

Can you add accelerator pedal angle to you log on the way home.
 

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