Subaru Outback Forums banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,009 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Just saw a commercial for this car during the Tour de France...

This car looks as close to an exact copy of a WRX Wagon that I think they could've come without running into legal trouble. ****, they even gave it a hood scoop! Since when does Saab use hood scoops?!

At least Subaru has gotten so good that now other companies, even those that are considered to be more "elite," are trying to copy their products. I guess we could look at it as a compliment...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
FMGreen said:

This car looks as close to an exact copy of a WRX Wagon that I think they could've come without running into legal trouble. ****, they even gave it a hood scoop! Since when does Saab use hood scoops?!
I for one most seriously doubt that SAAB shall run into or for that matter even for one second contemplated any legal trouble over the 9-2X.
Subaru is to 20 % owned by GM and SAAB is a wholly owned subsidiary of GM today. GM basically "ordered" them to co-operate. So no one is stepping on anyones toes, at least not legally;).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
FMGreen said:

But, if these cars were songs, the 9-2X would be pushing the boundaries of copyright infringement!
On a not so serious note...again it's a question if you've got permission or not. I do believe the required permission was granted making the legal/infringement thing a moot point.
Had Huyndai started/tried to do the same thing though;)?
As a sidenote, I'm not very fond of this badge enginering stuff that seem to be so popular in the US, most europeans aren't either or so I've come to believe by among other things reactions to the SAABARU.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
I for one am pissed. I love subaru, and i hate saab. And for saab to to basically take a wrx and redesign the interior and exterior just shows how pathetic they really are. For christ sake they cant even afford to design their own car, instead they have to use that of another proven companies'.
I read an article in the most recent r&t about this situation, and apparently you would think that saab would have made even minor improvements to the chassis or engine, anything, but no they didnt. I guess this just shows that underneath the hood saab is hurtin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Why so agitated?

lukeg199 said:
I for one am pissed. I love subaru, and i hate saab. And for saab to to basically take a wrx and redesign the interior and exterior just shows how pathetic they really are. For christ sake they cant even afford to design their own car, instead they have to use that of another proven companies'.
Some do seem to miss ;) the point that it's NOT willy nilly theft of someone elses favourite toy that's going on. It's rather more like it's GM going through the standard brand engineering moves again. SAAB that is now much to our dismay just another 100% GM brand, doesn't have much choice in this matter.
Over here local motor/car journalists almost in unison say:" Lucky us they won't sell here. By a Subaru instead. "
Which to me seems to be good advice!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,618 Posts
Personally I find this very scary, it's not so much what's happening now, but what can happen in the future, GM buys a little more and a little more of Subaru and pretty soon they're telling Subaru what to develop and what not to develop, innovation is stiflled. That's not even the worst case scenario, it could go far further than that and end up with some GM plant in India (or somewhere else with cheap labour) building "subaru" for GM global markets, with very poor build quality. Mazda almost went under because Ford stifled their creativity and they built some of the most boring cars ever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Jondalar said:
Personally I find this very scary, it's not so much what's happening now, but what can happen in the future, GM buys a little more and a little more of Subaru..... Mazda almost went under because Ford stifled their creativity and they built some of the most boring cars ever.
I couldn't agree more. Brand perception both from a subjective point-of-view as well as quality wise is at risk from these re-branding exercises. Not being from the US I only vaguely recall commercials along the lines of "ask for by name" plugging brand x or so. Eventually even in the US having what's basically the same thing re-packaged in different disguises as Cadillac, Chevrolet,Subaru or Saab only targeted at different customer segments will eventually erode the overall brand perception.
Take for example VAG (Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda and Seat) I've encountered more than one really upset AUDI owner that just went "ballistic", well almost at the realisation that their precious AUDI minus trimmings and sound/noice proofing is the same more or less as a lowly SKODA or SEAT. That hurts. Especially if you paid 50% extra....for those four rings.
Sub-standard production, sort of CHEAPO-CARS made in where ever labour costs are the lowest can be the express route to killing your percieved-as-quality-brand in virtually no-time.

But there's still one thing though that makes me wonder. From what I've seen it's mostly US Subaru owners -that ought to be "re-brand aware"- that are the most upset by the SAABARUs existance.

Then there's the Ford-Mazda fling. Ford, well it's UK branch at least could in the 60's and 70's hatch one after the other of really creative cars, albeit many of them co-ops with Lotus and CosWorth but still very exciting and fun to drive cars that were sort of affordable. I guess Ford at a corporate level isn't very imaginative and creative, probably concentrating more on consolidating it's financial assets than building cars. When the focus is on money making rather than on actually cars or what ever your line of business is fun and creativity tends to wind up in the back seat.
 

·
Friendly Subaru Dealer, ,
Joined
·
47 Posts
I read an blurb in Newsweek about the Saabaru. The author was just raving about how good it was, with it's swedish design and all that crap. And you can, of course, buy the 9-2X Aero (WRX Wagon) for only aroud $32000.

Or, you could buy a WRX STI for $34000, and be smart with your money.

The Saabaru's basically charge about 5 grand more for the sub equivalent. in 05, the impreza line went down in price from the previous year. ou can get your hands on a base 5 speed for around 17,000. You can get the Saab for around $22000.

Needless to say, it's a thorn in my butt.

I'm going to be really miffed when the XUV (7 Passenger) is released next year, and Saab gets their own version.

Excuse me while I scream...
 

·
Tokyo's between my toes
Joined
·
6,696 Posts
An example from another industry

I was a technical writer at CompuServe 1993 - 1996. During that time the company was in turmoil, as the development of the Internet and the WWW were making that older model of online service provider obsolete.

So AOL finally bought us, and they got rid of many people, including their tech writers ... but I digress ... but the've kept the CompuServe name.

As it was explained to us, people still hold a loyalty to CompuServe, and they still want that name (even though the networks got sold to MCI). So the CompuServe users are really on AOL but the "look and feel" is still CompuServe.

So maybe GM is going that route with SAAB. It isn't much of a surprise in the context of Ford controlling Jaguar and BMW controlling bits of British Leyland. I didn't know about the Audi/�_koda link, though, and I wasn't sure if Seat even still existed.

As for Subaru and SAAB, they share this similarity - each has always had its own small oddball fanatical base of loyalists. A friend of mine used to have a SAAB 900 and he showed me a lot of owners'-club literature, even took me to some club events. They have their own culture, no doubt about that *G*

(edited to add, hmm, the forum software does not support alt-numeric characters :mad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Similarities

I looked at the Saab on the R&T website.

I also see many similarities with the Audi wagon and Volvo wagons with the Outback.

I showed my '04 Outback to my neighbor across the street and he said that his wife was looking for a wagon like mine too, but wanted the "Volvo one".

So it seems to me that many people want a certain kind of car. In this case an AWD wagon, but there has to be a certain name or emblem attached to the car.

For me it's Subaru AWD wagons.

For others it's the Volvo, Audi or Saab.

Kurt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Brand Engineering is A-OK with me........

I don't have a problem with the brand-engineering aspect of the Saabaru 9-2, provided that the underlying vehicle is sound, fun, and most importantly, fast and reliable. I was "this close" to buying the 9-2x, knowing full well that it was a re-badged WRX wagon.

I always liked the performance, value, etc. of the WRX, but found it butt-ugly--something I've heard from many others. Wanted the AWD, performance, etc., but could not see myself getting out of that car. The 9-2x solved that---it is a better-looking WRX. Nicer interior, better sound (NVH) isolation, better door seals, beefed up steering rack, etc. Kept the good parts (WRX engine, trans, drivetrain) and made the "ugly" parts better---it was a viable alternative. Yes, it did bug me a bit to know I was paying for the "saab" premium (never did care much for their cars--FWD-ugh), but it made the WRX viable for me.

Of course, at the end of the day (and even considering my GM employee discount that applied to the 9-2), decided it was too small, saw the new 05 OB XT Ltd. (what a difference in power, interior, etc.) and bought that. Now, if I could just get 25-30 more HP out of that "WRX-based" 2.5.......

Lat thought---given the "horrors" of monolithic brands buying up every niche maker, isn't it amazing that we live in the golden-age of ever-higher quality cars with ever-increasing HP? Good stuff will sell, poor stuff will fall by the wayside. You pays your money, you takes your choice.

Cheers-John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I saw a article somewhere that said this is Saab's last chance! If they can't sell cars with help from Subaru then GM is going to pull the plug on Saab and let it die.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,009 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
This all just goes to show that everyone has different tastes...
because to me, the 9-2X is FAR UGLIER than the WRX Wagon. It looks so boring, so "smooth." I guess "smooth" is probably what a SAAB shopper is looking for.

The reason I love the Subaru, and the 1st Gen. WRX is the most extreme example of this, is that the bodies they put on their vehicles are always very aggressive looking. He.ll, they were putting non-functional hood scoops on station wagons in the mid-90s simply because they looked more aggresive.
Even the Forester has body sculpting and lines that just make it LOOK powerful and versatile.
All you need to do is take one look at the new headlights on the '05 Outbacks to see an example of seriously aggressive styling. I don't see any other cars on the road with headlights that seriously look like they belong to a pissed off Raptor that is about to swoop down and peck your brains out through your eye sockets.

The best part is that Subaru has always backed up their looks with performance. No one driving a riced up Civic would ever expect to get toasted at the line by a Forester XT. The fact that moments just like that are probably happening everyday all over the world are what make me really love Subaru.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
i appreciate the performance and potential versatility of the Forester, but i do believe it is Subaru' ugliest car.

Granted, the new ones do look a **** of a lot better. They just look a touch too boxy for my taste and to perform as well as they do.

But i would gladly take an XT and tamper with the circuits in a rice-rocketer's brain as i pulled off the line before he could even pop his shiny pep-boy's aluminum clutch pedal.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
About this Discussion
16 Replies
11 Participants
Latrop
Subaru Outback Forums
Welcome to the Subaru Outback Owners Forum, we have tons of information about your Subaru Outback, from a Subaru Outback Wiki to customer reviews.
Full Forum Listing
Top