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I was on freeway during night time. There were 2 lanes and I was in right lane driving around 55-60mph.
Didn't realize there was ice, I was overtaking then the vehicle slipped and didn't go where it should go. Then I tried to direction using steering , the vehicle got turned and hit the guard rail. Luckily no one was hurt and after hitting, vehicle stopped. I completely didn't know how to control the vehicle that time.
 

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even a $120,000 range rover can spin around on a sheet of ice on its OEM tires.

4 studded snow tires, or 4 ice tires fixes that.

best tire sales are in april and november. get some snow/ice tires and put them on their own rims.
its a investment in your family's lives.

I still got my studded snows on, ...might take them off in the next two days. (snow finally stopped falling, and is almost gone, and I got no plans to find a road with spring mud to go tearing up).

you can hit the link next to the question mark in my signature and fill out the about my car section, and it will appear at the left. (all outbacks are not created equally. as a 1996 manual 2.2, is not the same as a 2017 3.6 CVT).

edit: based on your first forum post you have a
"2017 Outback 2.5"



..
 

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OBW H6 VDC, Tribeca, XT6
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that is not a fun feeling, most of us have been there.

if it's ice, then it's often nothing you can do except use ice skates. presumably not every other vehicle on the freeway was sliding out of control? were there 10 cars piled up there? might be good to ask why. rural area? tires? speed? lane change? curving road? bridges?

check the 4 digit date stamp on the tires - old tires, no matter how much tread, are not good in slick conditions at all. the tire materials degrade to like a hard plastic finish rather than supple rubber.
 

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2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5)
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I was on freeway during night time. There were 2 lanes and I was in right lane driving around 55-60mph.
Didn't realize there was ice, I was overtaking then the vehicle slipped and didn't go where it should go. Then I tried to direction using steering , the vehicle got turned and hit the guard rail. Luckily no one was hurt and after hitting, vehicle stopped. I completely didn't know how to control the vehicle that time.
If you hit a good patch of black ice, it doesn't particularly matter what you're driving, you're (probably) going for a ride. Knowing what to do can save you. If the weather conditions are such that you could get into trouble, drive like you WILL get into trouble all the time.

First, if you're coming up on a bridge, left off the accelerator and let the car coast over the bridge. Bridges DO freeze before roadways, so while the actual highway surface may be too warm, the bridge surface can be frozen.

If you feel it start to to slip, take your foot off the accelerator and do NOT hit the brake. The Subaru AWD system is looking for traction and only needs one wheel to have traction to be able to drive down the road, but glare ice can and will cause loss of traction on all four at the same time.

Don't be afraid to actually steer your car. Watch what Mark Higgins does here:

Okay, he was on dry pavement. But he was also going just a LITTLE bit faster than you ... :wink2:

Having said that ... if you live in a state that regularly gets snow and ice during winter, then get snow tires for winter driving. Studs are best, but they're not legal in all states. If you don't, then you're going to be driving on OEM tires. Just don't give up on the car, that's what happens to most people. As you said, you didn't know how to control the vehicle. So the best thing you CAN do in winter is take the car is to take the car into an empty parking lot and practice your skids, get some experience, so it almost becomes muscle memory.
 

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I completely didn't know how to control the vehicle that time.
This can be an acquired skill set, and driving courses are available to learn it. The particular maneuver that you saw Mark Higgins do to recover from a potential oversteer condition at 0:56 in the video that Carl linked is an example. Be forewarned; Higgins is a professional driver and took the time to learn the car's characteristics when pushed to the limits, and the average driver placed in this situation would probably not be able to recover as Higgins does - they would overcorrect. Hopefully, most average drivers aren't pushing things this hard.
 

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If you hit a good patch of black ice, it doesn't particularly matter what you're driving, you're (probably) going for a ride. Knowing what to do can save you....

If you feel it start to to slip, take your foot off the accelerator and do NOT hit the brake. The Subaru AWD system is looking for traction and only needs one wheel to have traction to be able to drive down the road, but glare ice can and will cause loss of traction on all four at the same time....
Best to slow down. Slow way down. Knowing what to do at 55+ on ice is tied to most will lose control and many will crash. Pulling out without crash is part skill tied to muscle memory with a lot of practice and part luck.

If you want to learn there is some chance to steer with limited traction on ice if you STAB the brake and then steer. I learned this on a frozen lake in Wisconsin with a rallye school. Not for the faint of heart, and not 100%. It has to do with weighting the front tires to gain any traction.
 

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A great method for driving on ice is to limit accelerations. Don't try to steer and change speed at the same time. Separate the actions across time.

Overtake maneuvers are particularly dangerous on ice, because they generally require a combination of speed changes and direction changes. Best just to avoid overtake maneuvers until road conditions improve.

As far as detecting ice? Weather reports and watching the onboard thermometer helps a lot, but there is no perfect protection.
 

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Having said that ... if you live in a state that regularly gets snow and ice during winter, then get snow tires for winter driving. Studs are best, but they're not legal in all states.
I guess studded tires are legal in Michigan now as long as they meet their standards for road wear/damage. Unfortunately there aren't any studs on the market that currently have been approved as to meeting those standards so we are still out of luck.
 

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2007 2.5 L Obsidian Black Outback XTL
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My first winter with a 4 wheeler, while in the Chicago suburbs I was moving quickly down Finley Blvd to see that Butterfield Rd had a red light so I pressed the brake to stop... Imagine my surprise when the car did a 180 and went backwards through the intersection in busy traffic. The road was covered with a nice sheen of ice. I did not hit anything but it drove a lesson in to me about four wheel drive vehicles.

"Four wheel drive, it just means you get stuck in more inaccessible locations".

When I was 15 we all caught a ride to school with a guy down the street. Coming home from school he was messing around, doing fishtails. He lost it and ended up with the two back wheels on the sidewalk, the front wheels in the street while we slid sideways. It was interesting to watch as the speed limit sign whacked the car and disappeared underneath in a flash. A fraction of a second later it hurt more when the part of the car I was in hit a big tree. It spun the car around and he was immediately moving in the right direction going down the street. We all promised to not tell our parents; I had a horrible headache, went home and passed out for about 20 minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
that is not a fun feeling, most of us have been there.

if it's ice, then it's often nothing you can do except use ice skates. presumably not every other vehicle on the freeway was sliding out of control? were there 10 cars piled up there? might be good to ask why. rural area? tires? speed? lane change? curving road? bridges?

check the 4 digit date stamp on the tires - old tires, no matter how much tread, are not good in slick conditions at all. the tire materials degrade to like a hard plastic finish rather than supple rubber.
I think was lane change, the lane change wasn't too quick ,had slight change in direction. Then I felt something going very very smooth under my car, I realized it got skid. Now the car was slipping very fast towards left lane, I thought it's going to hit the divider, then I tried to steer to change the direction. The rear part of car was close to left lane divider and front part of car was away. The car direction was like towards right lane, but wasn't moving in that direction. Just slipping straight due to vehicle weight and momentum. I don't remember how much did I brake. Then it started spinning the rear part of car was now facing in forward direction and the car hit the left lane divider . The passenger side of car kept rubbing the divider/guard rail. I left the vehicle free, the speed of car reduced. Just after hitting, car took one more spin but this time in opposite direction.

Someone told me to put the vehicle in manual lower gear in such situations, is that true.
 

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Someone told me to put the vehicle in manual lower gear in such situations, is that true.
No.

It could potentially help if you did the whole trip in a lower gear, only because it would reduce your overall speed. Changing into a lower gear after a skid has already begun would only make things worse. Except for some very advanced driving techniques, the only control you should use when skidding is your steering wheel.

The whole problem here is too much forward speed for the road conditions. The road conditions are usually variable: ice here; no ice there. You can easily get into an uncontrollable skid at 15mph with ice; but you can retain perfect control at 85mph on a dry warm road. If the road rapidly transitions from one state to the other it is entirely up to you to predict the change and correct yourself (reduce speed) before you reach the ice.

In practice this is extremely difficult, and the only practical solution is to go slow when ice is predicted by weather report or local temperature reading.
 

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Someone told me to put the vehicle in manual lower gear in such situations, is that true.

occasionally, just like when you want to go slower going down a steep grade. and you would pick gears other then high in a manual or plain automatic car.

read your owners manual. it is nice to make such decisions before hitting the sheet of ice, as sudden gear changes "can" make a car slide,.. but nice to use when braking will definitely make for a uncontrolled skid.

but then again it is nice to not be on a icy road to begin with vs. waiting in a safe place for the sanders.

on bad days I use all the gears I have. but I am going slower to start with. on my studded snows. out with people that don't have them. (and on ice if there is more then just me out,...I have found a safe place to wait before someone smashes me).

edit: well I have 4 speed simple automatics, 4,3,2 get used,
1 is really really low like off road travel around 5mph.
 

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I think was lane change, the lane change wasn't too quick ,had slight change in direction. Then I felt something going very very smooth under my car, I realized it got skid. ...

Someone told me to put the vehicle in manual lower gear in such situations, is that true.
That sounds like typical conditions where the right lane was clear due to traffic, but the center line had frozen over, and there hadn't been enough traffic in the left lane to keep the pavement warm and melted, so it was frozen as well.

Basically your only choice at this time was to NOT hit the brakes and steer into the skid. It is also possible that with the AWD system on a Subaru that giving it a little gas might have actually helped - if ANY of your tires had gotten momentary traction with your fronts steering along the road, it could have put you back into the non-frozen lane. But then you would have also had to be prepared to steer in the OTHER direction, if the back end was fishtailing on you.

I agree with the other guys on here. Situational awareness was your biggest mistake. The roads had the potential to be icy, so you needed to assume that they were icy and slow down. Just because the speed limit on I-35 running through town is 70 mph doesn't mean that when the weather is bad I drive 70 anyway - I'm liable to be puttering down the road at 40 mph. (And the way Mother Nature is being bi-polar this spring, we're liable to have another snow storm. This is nuts - 70 degrees one day, snow the next.)
 

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And the way Mother Nature is being bi-polar this spring, we're liable to have another snow storm. This is nuts - 70 degrees one day, snow the next.
"Oooaklahoma, where the weather switches on a dime..."
 

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Slow down. Use proper tires. Know the limits of your vehicle.

When it’s crappy out, don’t cower inside. Go out for a drive. Find a deserted road or parking lot and see what it feels like to lose control...but on purpose.
 

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Someone told me to put the vehicle in manual lower gear in such situations, is that true.
it is not true, nor is it true. it's certainly not a good "one size fits all" suggestion.

in general if you're sliding on ice there's not much you can do or what you can do is highly dependent on circumstances, environment, conditions, etc - it's way too contextualized to make some blanket statement while sitting in your office with a buddy.

it's a partial differential equation - conditions, ice, how much of road is covered, what are your options, how steep the grade, what direction, what speed, what driver inputs, what brand tires, how old are they.....and on and on and on.

you might be able to SMASH THE GAS PEDAL out of it to avoid a tree, or that could be a terrible idea. or you might be able to ever so slightly and slowly work control back into the slide as the car progresses, slows, or hits areas that have more traction than others....and on and on and on.

there's too many variables to say and as usual - if someone makes a blanket statement it's not very accurate.

excellent tires are an advantage - you should check your 4 digit date stamp of the tires immediately.

and experience is helpful - a little time in a field or empty parking lot practicing in snow/ice/mud is helpful for feeling what the car does in various situations and inputs.
 

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I guess studded tires are legal in Michigan now as long as they meet their standards for road wear/damage. Unfortunately there aren't any studs on the market that currently have been approved as to meeting those standards so we are still out of luck.
As a fellow Michigan resident, I find the idea that we could actually make the roads WORSE than they are laughable.
 

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excellent tires are an advantage - you should check your 4 digit date stamp of the tires immediately.

.
the OPs car is a 2017 2.5 CVT. (although one has to dig back in old posts to see that,...as it is impossible to get otherwise,...despite my initial attempts ).



OEM tires are crap,...so this coming 2018-2019 winter they should be killers.
vs. buying new all seasons or snows in November.

and to suggest discussion the car appears to be in new hampshire. = a place they sell lots of real snow/ ice tires.

 

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"Oooaklahoma, where the weather switches on a dime..."
And if we make it through the day today, we'll tie the record for the latest start to the tornado season ever, through Saturday and we'll break the record for fewest tornadoes in April ever ... which to me doesn't bode well for May.
 
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