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Discussion Starter #1
Here's the skinny:

I had this idea to either put a turbo or a supercharger on my car. Mathematics and space, physics and effectiveness all calculated, the supercharger won out.

I found several people in Europe who are modifying H6's in Outbacks, TriBecas and Sedans. All 2004 and up. I swapped emails with a few people and concluded that it was possible to blow this motor. Blow it with more air.

Then I find that the supercharger won't fit properly. The ABS module is in the way on one side, the battery on the other. Move the battery, sure, put it in the rear, but with the blower on the driver side, air plumbing is too tight. So, back to the passenger side as they do in Europe and Australia. Even right hand drive engine compartments are set up identical. So, I'll move the ABS. Designed where and how I will reposition it and move on.

So, I have the engine compartment mapped out and know what I need for the mechanical installation. But a blower is no good unless it is operable.

Programming. Several people, people who are supposed to do upgrades for a living, said I would have to find a suitable piggyback system. There isn't one that is easy. I would have to rewire the car, build harnesses, tuck the piggyback somewhere and hope the solder holds the pins at the connections. That is finite work and tedious. The Subarus use Denso ECM's. They are rewritable. Hey, back up. REFLASH. Idea.

Well, I found someone who does ECM mapping on Subarus. He owns one and has remapped several NA as well as Turbos using the factory ECM, increasing the output and very successful.

I use RomRaider. I ripped the factory ROM and sent it via email to Ed, my mapping guru. We, yes we, connect to the car via Team Viewer over the web and he is looking at data at the same time I am.

Here's the kicker: 2nd gen H6 is MAP sensor driven. There is no MAF, its all calculated from the MAP. Ed is into new territory, working longer on this project than any other, but we have been successful thus far. Knock retard is confusing both of us as it is retarding up to -14 degrees. This evening, I think I figured out why. You see I drive with my laptop connected to the car and watch what the car is doing with varying demands from me. The knock retard is only when I am on an upgrade and the computer is trying to keep the transmission torque converter clutch engaged for fuel economy. It is making up for the load created by the transmission. I never get a "ping" from detonation I always use premium fuel, NGKs are new 15k or so ago, as is the fuel filter. We were even wondering maybe I got crappy fuel out of the station's tank. I don't know, haven't noticed anything different performance wise except when I reflashed the previous 2 times.

Fuel/Ignition map #3 is being written as I write this. Ed is going to increase my top end rpm. No more cutout @ 6300. Going higher! Yeah, baby.

All said, the parts I need for the blower install are on the way from Australia, the 01 WRX injectors are on the way from Denso, the pump for the water cooler setup for the blower is on the way, new knock sensors, just in case, are also on the way and mapping this Denso for 7-10 psi boost is now a reality since we know we can manipulate the programming from stock with gains using stock mechanical setup.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
And here is the car. I will put up pics of the interior tomorrow. Tim in Australia can't believe I am doing this on this generation and wanted to see pics anyway.

The last picture shows the placement of the ABS and P/S reservoir which will move as the supercharger will sit above this area. The intake tube for the air filter will go through the fender at the existing port for the resonator with the filter sitting inside the fender. I will have to remove the inner fender to clean the filter, but with the gains I plan on getting out of the car, who cares.
 

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Have you considered an STS rear-mounted turbo? I have a friend with a C5 vette wearing a pair of them, I can assure you there is no appreciable turbo lag unlike what the naysayers may tell you.

Squires Turbo Systems - Turbocharged Innovation!

Aside from having to plumb intake air from the back of the car they're a relatively easy install.

One thing I'd be very interested in is if you guys can tweak the ECU to ignore the AT. . . it would make swapping in a MT a much easier feat. Right now the only successful jobs I've seen involve leaving the AT trans controller in place and install resistors in place of solenoids.
 

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is the blower like the one in the mini cooper S?

FMIC with cooling spray or ???


sounds like a fun project!


supercharged SVX;



from Tokyo show?;



Perrin (one-off I'm guessing);


Cobb one-off;
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I thought about the turbos fitted downstream, but the plumbing was the major issue. The supercharger I'm installing is the Raptor VLLC, water cooled. No intercooler, won't need it as the water cooling will keep the bearing surface cool as well as the SC casing and the distance to the throttle is short. Clutched drive for more boost and a 32mm blowoff. The injectors are 410cc.

I would attach a 2nd gear pull I did this evening after installing the 3rd remap but the attachment manager won't upload .csv files. RPM cutoff was increased above 7k and 100% load was achieved just over 6500. The engine gained smoothly and without a hickup.

Another thing I want to mention: I filled up my tank after installing the 2nd version for a weighted pull. I filled up again tonight after work and after running 280 miles since the previous fill up, my fuel economy jumped to 27.5 mpg. This with a lot of logging for gear pulls, full throttle take offs to 100 mph, dogging the hel l out out of it and my regular driving. Can't wait to see what it may do with normal everyday after all is said and done.

Also, pics of the car in and out. And no, the amp does not get heated enough to shut down, especially since my AC is like an ice box. The engine cover is off because I had to remove the MAP to induce boost pressure to get voltage readings and I haven't put it back on yet. Long day.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks. That one is MAF driven. I am having to deal with MAP only on this one. So far, the ECM is cooperating with the changes we are making over stock on stock engine. I was really surprised with the MPG difference, but anytime you add HP, the fuel economy changes for the better.

Also, this guy: My M62 Supercharger Build & DIY-How To - Subaru Impreza GC8 & RS Forum & Community: RS25.com used a blower off a Mercedes. Great outcome. Took him a long time though, but as he said, he had time. I like what he did with the throttle body, doing away with the blowoff valve.
 

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I lived in Amsterdam for several years and recognize the video maker's Dutch accent. In the Netherlands we would say T'Gek! (Too crazy) - If I had the H6 I'd buy one of those kits.
 

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I'm getting keen on stuffing a rear mount turbo under my swapped H6 now. . . any chance I can get in on all this ECU flashing? Happy to chip in if there's $$$ involved.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Not the same yr/model but ran across this Ytube video. You have probably seen this but it does look petty clean. Here's the link:

Subaru Tribeca 3.0H6 supercharged walkaround.MTS - YouTube

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Yeah, been talking to Rick @ Chargertech. He thought he would be able to assist with the programming, but when he realized which PCM I was dealing with, he had suggested I find a piggyback. Piggyback or stock PCM, the MAP is the issue. The newer versions, like the one in Rick's vid, run MAF sensors.

I am working with Ed at XTreme Tuning in Barbados. He tweeks the factory settings on Subarus and works with programming modified. He owns a Subaru. I got in touch with him through Tim at Raptor.
 

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from what i remember when i was doing research on re-flash, 00-02 legacies. would take the the change but won't hold it. meaning reset back to stock. So i am very curious if you can actually get the ecu to hold a new map. Of course that was about 5 years ago
 

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"I thought about the turbos fitted downstream, but the plumbing was the major issue. The supercharger I'm installing is the Raptor VLLC, water cooled. No intercooler, won't need it as the water cooling will keep the bearing surface cool as well as the SC casing and the distance to the throttle is short. Clutched drive for more boost and a 32mm blowoff. The injectors are 410cc."


These cars have 10.7: 1 compression ratios. Yes, you DO need to run an intercooler if you are going beyond about 5 psi boost!! Intercoolers have NOTHING to do with blower bearing temperatures. They are there to reduce pre-combustion cylinder temperatures.

-Are you familiar with Corky Bell's book about supercharging? If not, then you need to find it and read it right away!

N!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The reflash remains. It won't revert unless it is reflashed with the original.

The SC is centrifugal. Its more efficient and doesn't increase the air temperature band like a roots or twin screw SC or a turbo which allows for increased absorption of heat as the air passes through the unit. I understand the pressure will increase the temperature, but as yet have not seen that an intercooler addition on this setup will actually do anything more than add expense and the temperature decrease on exit will be low. I have not totally disregarded an intercooler. At this time, it is not an absolute necessity in my equations and I can always add it in later based on the information provided in logging the data.

The inlet of the blower will be less than 1' from the fender opening where the air filter will reside to draw in ambient air away from the engine compartment. The short trip to the throttle body is minimal and I will be using silicone tubing for all air plumbing for two purposes: ease of fabrication and temperature displacement/absorption. The air will not increase in temperature enough from the inlet side to outlet to justify trying to cool it, the effect will be minimal. The water cooler installation on the SC will serve two purposes: control heating of the bearing and keep the casing cooler, thus controlling the temperature of the air charge better than without. The water cooler setup I have come up with will work better than the ones utilized currently with water cooled SCs and cost for the change in design is minimal.

I have been working on this for some time. I have a list of pros/cons and possibilities after the installation involving temperature control of both air and fuel. The majority of time on this has been spent on programming and working around the voltage curve of the MAP to provide accurate measurements from idle to 7k rpm to insure proper fuel delivery. All the mechanical design is complete including what I may need to add/change after the installation. Electronics still remain and has been challenging. Even after our base map is written and loaded, changes will have to be made according to the engine's reaction.

I even thought up an air cooler design that will reduce the air temperature below ambient more effectively than using water, but I need to tweak with it mechanically and mathematically. If it turns out the way I believe it will, it will make boosted engines more efficient and powerful, as well as putting a new spin on cold air induction systems for NA engines.

Patience will make it work. I am already ahead of where I expected to be in this venture.
 

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this is great news, from what i understood you are running it stock with a modified map for the time being? If this is correct i am very curious to hear of the gains if any. Also what are your plans for exhaust system?
 

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The reflash remains. It won't revert unless it is reflashed with the original.

The SC is centrifugal. Its more efficient and doesn't increase the air temperature band like a roots or twin screw SC or a turbo which allows for increased absorption of heat as the air passes through the unit. I understand the pressure will increase the temperature, but as yet have not seen that an intercooler addition on this setup will actually do anything more than add expense and the temperature decrease on exit will be low. I have not totally disregarded an intercooler. At this time, it is not an absolute necessity in my equations and I can always add it in later based on the information provided in logging the data.

The inlet of the blower will be less than 1' from the fender opening where the air filter will reside to draw in ambient air away from the engine compartment. The short trip to the throttle body is minimal and I will be using silicone tubing for all air plumbing for two purposes: ease of fabrication and temperature displacement/absorption. The air will not increase in temperature enough from the inlet side to outlet to justify trying to cool it, the effect will be minimal. The water cooler installation on the SC will serve two purposes: control heating of the bearing and keep the casing cooler, thus controlling the temperature of the air charge better than without. The water cooler setup I have come up with will work better than the ones utilized currently with water cooled SCs and cost for the change in design is minimal.

I have been working on this for some time. I have a list of pros/cons and possibilities after the installation involving temperature control of both air and fuel. The majority of time on this has been spent on programming and working around the voltage curve of the MAP to provide accurate measurements from idle to 7k rpm to insure proper fuel delivery. All the mechanical design is complete including what I may need to add/change after the installation. Electronics still remain and has been challenging. Even after our base map is written and loaded, changes will have to be made according to the engine's reaction.

I even thought up an air cooler design that will reduce the air temperature below ambient more effectively than using water, but I need to tweak with it mechanically and mathematically. If it turns out the way I believe it will, it will make boosted engines more efficient and powerful, as well as putting a new spin on cold air induction systems for NA engines.

Patience will make it work. I am already ahead of where I expected to be in this venture.
Ok...

So you are bound and determined to supercharge an engine with 10.7: 1 compression, and will not intercool the thing. I am assuming you've read Corky Bell's book where he talks about the intake charge reaching 1075 degrees F as a maximum during the compression stroke, otherwise damaging detonation will take place. Based upon the calculations that are talked about in his book, you can run about 4-5 psi without that intercooler max. That will give you more power, but probably not enough to justify the time, effort, and expense.

Well, hey man, that's cool- They are your pistons/cash to burn. Good luck-

N
 

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Discussion Starter #20
My shop has been really busy as late so the VDC work has been slim. But, I am still awaiting parts from Raptor before taking my front end apart and installing all the mechanicals, so no big deal. I have my software, tactrix, LC-1 wideband, egt, Denso 410cc injectors, electric water pump and piping. Programming is still being worked on.

Yes, I reflashed the comp with changes using the stock mechanical. Ed does this all the time for owners that want a change without modifications. My fuel mileage jumped to 27 mpg on the 2nd version, and the rev limit was increased to 7k with the 3rd version.

I am going to keep the exhaust as quiet as possible. The H6 exhaust is already large enough to handle to output load. I may have to install larger CATs to make up for the boosted levels, but again, the fuel map will tell all. If needed, I can install a pair of CATs cheap.

That's right. My money. Again Normy, the intercooler is not absolutely necessary at this time. It will not detonate with proper fuel and ignition mapping. If my math is wrong in calculating the intake temperature, an effective water/air intercooler setup is only $300 and an hour or two to install. If I blow a motor, another H6 is available. I don't own $30k+ in tools for naught. I am still working on another optional cooling system, but the practicality for mass production is out of there. If it proves well, it will be a one off for my car only, but may be duplicated with modifications for custom fitting. At this time, it only lives on paper.
 
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