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Brucey
'17 3.6 Limited
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We were TOLD that's what it's supposed to do, at our ride and drive for the 2019 Forester, because of the potential / probability that you're going to be doing fun things. (And it does that on my 2019 Forester.) Which is what I've been telling my customers. However, from what's been described on here, it's NOT doing that. Due to the differences in the head units between Forester and Outback, they may have (meaning, probably) programmed the Outback differently, requiring you to turn collision avoidance off on your own, since it's not push buttons in the Outback, it's all controlled via the screen.
Thanks for the clarification!

Now we just need other 2020 Onyx owners to try driving into things in mud and snow mode.
 

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Normal functioning of the eyesight system..

It sounds like throttle management kicking in. When we go to pull the cars up onto pad in front of the dealership, like we're trying to get them under cover to avoid Oklahoma hard rain (aka hail), we pull them straight in. We can get the front tires up and on with no problem. The rear tires, we have to turn collision avoidance off because throttle management kills the power so we don't run into the building. Has nothing to do with X-mode - other than with dual mode x-mode, it'll turn eyesight off.
I agree with the observation, Carl, since ES does about the same on my 2019, but calling it “normal” sounds reminiscent of “they all do that”. Which is what folks say when they describe a design flaw you are stuck with. Throttle management doesn’t kill the power because you are going to run into the building, because you wouldn’t, and didn’t with it off. Well, not unless you are drunk, a ten year old, or a dog ( saw a video recently with a dog driving a car) needing the assistance to avoid a collision.

The system misjudged the circumstances and stopped you from normal operation, which shouldn’t ever be considered “normal”. It’s a programming, design, or hardware flaw.


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2020 Outback touring XT, crazy Subaru idea of green
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well, that's what the dual x-mode does... the deep snow/mud setting on your Onyx will disable the vehicle dynamics and the pre-collision braking/throttle management. The normal Xmode setting will just switch to x-mode and not disable those other two things (cars without the dual xmode have to hit a few more buttons to get the same thing).
I remember reading about that here for the first time. I almost got the Onyx instead of the touring because it had 3 x-modes. For the life of me I could not understand why the tippy top of the line Tourning XT did not. So it was super happy to hear the Touring does have 3 modes. You just hafta work harder to get to them. Quirky Subaru with their choices of lack of physical buttons and what they do (or don't) place on the screen,
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Here is the proof of pre collision activating (killing the throttle)
While in Deep Mud/snow or Snow dirt X-Mode.

Bottom line : you want to Off-Road or have fun, disable Eyesight
476771
476772
 

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2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5)
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Which is what folks say when they describe a design flaw you are stuck with. Throttle management doesn’t kill the power because you are going to run into the building, because you wouldn’t, and didn’t with it off. Well, not unless you are drunk, a ten year old, or a dog ( saw a video recently with a dog driving a car) needing the assistance to avoid a collision.

The system misjudged the circumstances and stopped you from normal operation, which shouldn’t ever be considered “normal”. It’s a programming, design, or hardware flaw.
In this, I disagree with you that it's a flaw. The system is doing what it's designed to do.

Unlike the vehicle operators (us), the system doesn't have the ability to make a judgement call. If something meets the parameters that have been programmed into it, then it will turn on. That's why I always warn people about making sure their gas caps click. The pressurized fuel system cannot differentiate between a gas cap lid that's not totally in place and a fuel system leak. A fuel system leak is a very bad thing, which makes engine light come on and because of that, puts the car into Nanny mode - basically making the driver get it checked out.

The programmers have to take into consideration the one thing that is the most unreliable and unpredictable in the vehicle - the loose nut behind the steering wheel.
 

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The programmers have to take into consideration the one thing that is the most unreliable and unpredictable in the vehicle - the loose nut behind the steering wheel.
It took me a minute to realize you mean the driver and not the actual nut for the steering wheel. Ford actually recalled my Ford Fusion for a loose steering wheel nut.😬

 

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In this, I disagree with you that it's a flaw. The system is doing what it's designed to do.

Unlike the vehicle operators (us), the system doesn't have the ability to make a judgement call. If something meets the parameters that have been programmed into it, then it will turn on. That's why I always warn people about making sure their gas caps click. The pressurized fuel system cannot differentiate between a gas cap lid that's not totally in place and a fuel system leak. A fuel system leak is a very bad thing, which makes engine light come on and because of that, puts the car into Nanny mode - basically making the driver get it checked out.

The programmers have to take into consideration the one thing that is the most unreliable and unpredictable in the vehicle - the loose nut behind the steering wheel.
First, it’s OK to disagree, Carl. No problem with that. Several of the ES and other electronic assistant functions are really useful and appreciated by me. But some are definitely not.

As I previously posted, a “flaw” can be in design or programming. The system may be operating as designed, but I vehemently disagree that designing it to operate as you have described in the hail event or how it has operated in my driveway is not a design flaw. If it engages so it causes danger to the safe operator to save some theoretical numbskull driver in a dreamed up situation that’s absurd.

In my case, unless careful, I can easily activate ES throttle reduction just by going up my steep driveway. ES “sees” the house across the street and thinks I am going to pay them a vehicle visit. The ES manual indicates steep hills, tight curves, and the like as potential cases where the system might unfortunately activate for the same reason it did in your hail event. That wouldn’t be real fun to have the brakes apply hard without warning at 50 mph on a curve, so yes sir, that’s a defect in design or implementation.

In the hail event, your guys knew what was happening and which button to push to disconnect the offending system. Most other people, me included, would be hyped up trying to get their vehicle under cover and when blocked by ES would probably have panicked and floored the throttle, not knowing what was going on. It’s a perfect situation for a bad outcome set up by over eager control devices.

Unfortunately, several of the ES suite or other electronic helpers fall into this category. And the gas cap example isn’t a good one. Making that system always work “as designed” is as simple as the click. That’s it.

One doesn’t have to decide, on the fly, whether to click it once, twice, or not at all, depending on the curve of the road or a cardboard box on the pavement or the angle of your driveway. Or whether the sun is blinding the system or the lines in the road are faint or bright. But if you didn’t read the four manual pages describing when the system doesn’t work and shut it off ahead of time before it happened it’s not our fault it’s your fault.

An effective, well designed system would only activate when I needed the help, but would not activate when I didn’t. Expecting the owner/driver to “outsmart” the system programming and turn it off before it makes a mistake is ridiculous.

Hey, just for fun, the same philosophy applies to the lovely Start/stop system. This board has numerous posts from owners who claim to have developed secretive personal management systems that will tame the ludicrously awful implementation of this feature.

Psst, here they are, or at least some of them.

Hold the brake, let the brake go, don’t step hard on the brake, step hard on the brake then let it go, drive slowly and then apply the brake, stand on your head and recite the Lord’s Prayer, all to attempt management of a system, regardless of your inclinations, you as owner must deal with. Which basically sucks.

Folks are even appealing to the ether for some entrepreneur to develop a permanent kill switch. Like ES, OK, fine, it’s there, but is it ready for installation?

No.

EJ

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2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5)
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Hey, just for fun, the same philosophy applies to the lovely Start/stop system. This board has numerous posts from owners who claim to have developed secretive personal management systems that will tame the ludicrously awful implementation of this feature.

Psst, here they are, or at least some of them.

Hold the brake, let the brake go, don’t step hard on the brake, step hard on the brake then let it go, drive slowly and then apply the brake, stand on your head and recite the Lord’s Prayer, all to attempt management of a system, regardless of your inclinations, you as owner must deal with. Which basically sucks.

Folks are even appealing to the ether for some entrepreneur to develop a permanent kill switch. Like ES, OK, fine, it’s there, but is it ready for installation?

No.

EJ
I cannot officially say that I completely agree with you on the Start/stop system. Something that is shoved down OUR throats (meaning the manufacturers, due to EPA and fuel economy government regulations) is, at least in my opinion, something in a different category from an actual manufacturer designed safety system. I have it the AS/S on my Forester, so I may have not told anyone how to deal with it more permanently like I have figured out. (It's an actual physical switch there.)

At the same time, as I mentioned above, the loose nut behind the steering wheel is normally the problem. And it may sound annoying, but the least common denominator involved in how many things are done and decided is not the safe driver, who actually does what he's supposed to do, but the ... (warning! NON POLITICALLY CORRECT WORDS COMING!) utter and completely idiotic moron that has ZERO fricking clue how to safely drive even in clear weather, god forbid you get a bit of RAIN on the road so they lose ALL sense of ability.
 
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