[abbike18]

I am a new (8 months) owner of a '05 OBXT and this is my first post on here. I have read so much around here and learned so much - so thanks to everyone putting the wealth of knowledge on here.

Like most people, I was pretty unimpressed with the rear suspension feel, and actually it was really bad when I was all loaded up going on weekend trips. So this past friday I replaced all my dampers with KYB GR-2s. The improvement was huge - but I still want to give her a little more support in the rear and reduce body roll a bit while maintaining the same ride hight.

From reading around here it looks like you can either put on stiffer rear springs OR a stiffer sway bar, depending on what you are going for. I want to have more cargo/person carrying ability so I was thinking stiffer rear springs and forego the sway bar for now. Everyone on here talks about the Ralliteks, but it seems they don't make them anymore? Then there are King Springs? But I can't seem to find a good place to buy them from.

SO: What are the current options for buying some stiffer rear springs and whats the cost? (I'm open to buying some Ralliteks if someone has them around)

Thanks!

Alex

 

[apk71]

Subscribed - I am in the process of the same. Bought new tires for the '08 XT so I figured I would upgrade the the GR-2s at the same time. I would do the springs too if I could find an alternative to the RalliTeks since they are unavailable.

 

[abbike18]

Alright I figured this all out. The best place to get new rear springs is from primitive racing (Primitive Racing Performance Parts). I just got off the phone with Paul who owns the shop. He was a super nice guy and was really helpful.

If you want the springs, email him here:
[email protected]

I went out for a drive today with 4 people in the car (I just replaced all 4 shocks/struts with KYBs) and it was absolutely terrible! It was an improvement with the new dampers, but the rear was bottoming out all over the place. It incredible to me that a company would make a car that was so capable but not allow it to be used because of one small detail.

So anyways, after that drive I bought the King Springs that maintain the ride height, but are 28% stiffer than stock. Should be nice. They will come in late next week, and I'll put them in next weekend. I'll try to put up a report...hopefully it helps with body roll too. Anyone have any experience with this setup (full KYB Excel-G/GR2 and then putting on stiffer rear springs, stock swaybars) and can they shed some light on its improvements?

 

[Seabass]

If you're not happy with the rear, you probably should have gone with the 00-04 rear kyb struts. Much better damping!

 

[abbike18]

I'm happy with the damping, but not happy with the spring rate. The car feels plenty damped - but when you throw a bunch of people in the car it rides too low and can't hold itself up.

Dampers oppose motion, springs oppose force. So even if I had the soft springs but increased the damping it would still ride extremely low when loaded up, it would bottom, and it would have a harsh ride.

I do a lot of mountain biking where our spring rates, rebound damping, high speed compression damping and low speed compression damping are adjustable...so I know my way around these types of mechanisms

 

[Bimmer]

From reading around here it looks like you can either put on stiffer rear springs OR a stiffer sway bar, depending on what you are going for. I want to have more cargo/person carrying ability so I was thinking stiffer rear springs and forego the sway bar for now.

Right.

Stiffer springs will fix the "butt sag."

A thicker/stiffer rear sway bar will fix the "plowing" when going around corners.

 

[rasterman]

Get in touch with Robe30. He's just gone through this upgrade in the past couple weeks, probably has good info for you.

 

[abbike18]

Right.

Stiffer springs will fix the "butt sag."

A thicker/stiffer rear sway bar will fix the "plowing" when going around corners.

But, is it a good idea to put both in? I understand that the Rallitek springs are not suggested to be used with a stiffer rear sway bar. Anyone have any experience with this? Do the stiffer rear spring also help the cornering? Does the ride get too harsh with both springs and a sway bar?

 

[rasterman]

A few have done both. Rallitek themselves said don't do it. I can't speak for them directly because I'm just some guy on the Internet, but I interpret their message as "talk to us first before you try it." After all, it is your car and the mod isn't outlawed anywhere. Just keep in mind that this they are an American manufacturer, and as such, every customer is a potential lawsuit waiting to happen.

Speaking theoretically, a stiff set of rear springs with a stiffer rear sway bar would tend to make any car have an oversteer tendency. Subarus usually leave the factory with a neutral-to-understeer tendency, so this is a significant departure in the overall handling and it is my opinion that this is where the legal hand-wringing comes in.

Some drivers, myself included, learned to drive in cars with oversteer tendency and have developed comfort in the technique. If you like the idea of occasionally getting sideways and have the skill to control it, give them a call. Likewise if you frequently carry heavy loads or tow trailers, you may want both mods for that reason.

 

[abbike18]

Thanks Rasterman. That makes sense why they would say that. I would way rather drive a car that has an oversteer tendency than an understeering one. You can always countersteer and drift through a corner, but once you go into understeer its game over.

I usually drive the car myself during the week - but on the weekends 4 adults with ski gear or two guys with mtn bikes and camping gear is a usual occurrence. I decided for the springs once I had 4 people in the car and was bottoming all over the place. But I even wanted the suspension to be stiffer when I was in the car alone! I would also like less body roll, and we'll see if the springs help (enough) with that. If not, I might think about the sway bar.

Thanks

 

[Robe30]

I just did the King springs w KYBs and love it. I think taught is the best way to describe the ride. It's much much better on back roads and in pretty much every aspect IMO.

The shocks still feel a bit under damped BUT I could t find Bilsteins for it so this was my best option. I DID use the 04 rear shocks.

 

[abbike18]

Thanks Robe, that sounds promising. Taught is the exact thing I'm going for. I should be getting them sometime this week and then installing on Friday. I'll report back

 

[4RunnerKid]

Robe30, was the ride height affected at all when you swapped in the KYB/King setup? it's getting to be about that time on my XT... sounds like your setup may be the ticket. :29:

 

[abbike18]

Just got done putting my new King Springs in the rear of my 05 OBXT. Took me two hours in the parking lot of my apt complex with a headlamp on for light and the temperature right around freezing

On ride height:
Pre - 16.75" driver; 17.125 passenger
Post - 16.75" driver; 16.5" passenger

Note that the measurements were taken in different parking spots. I wanted to take her for a test drive to bed them in before taking the measurement. I'm not concerned with the difference...I'll count that as a no ride height change.

The new springs are definitely shorter and thicker than the old ones. You barely need to compress them to get the top hots on, whereas with the old springs you spend about a day uncompressing them once they are off. Install was a breeze.

My test ride was a quick one around my place a bit. Things I noticed:
-Way less wallow in the rear. You can feel the road (in a good way)
-On a inverse hump, like you would experience coming into an apartment complex (down then up), the old suspension would sink down and then bottom on the upside. The new springs make the car float through it without ever getting too bogged down in the travel.
-I feel like I can take corners harder and the car is not rolling over nearly as much. Now I know why everyone says do either sway or springs by itself, then decide if you want the other.
-Over a railroad track the rear was more harsh. Not in a bad way, but it wasn't that caddy feel you are probably used to. Note that these were pretty harsh tracks.
-If you have the XT, you know that when you really jam on the accelerator the car can really pitch backwards. It of course still does this, but to a far lesser degree.


Summary: I am pretty **** happy

 

[dahoseman]

I will be starting my build soon on my 2005 OXT. I'm glad to see people with positive results on the King Springs. I'm installing standard height King Springs in front and 'raised' springs in the rear because I frequently carry many hundreds of pounds of gear in the back. I'm also installing Whiteline sway bars front and rear, so hopefully it won't be too rough unloaded.
Once I get everything installed, I'll put up my thoughts on it.

 

[abbike18]

I will be starting my build soon on my 2005 OXT. I'm glad to see people with positive results on the King Springs. I'm installing standard height King Springs in front and 'raised' springs in the rear because I frequently carry many hundreds of pounds of gear in the back. I'm also installing Whiteline sway bars front and rear, so hopefully it won't be too rough unloaded.
Once I get everything installed, I'll put up my thoughts on it.

After my experience with just the rear springs, you may want to hold off the on sway bars. The springs have done a significant job at reducing body roll for me.