Subaru Outback Forums banner

61 - 80 of 91 Posts

·
Registered
19 2.5i OB LTD w/SSD Strt Twr Brc + OEM 19mm RSB
Joined
·
1,218 Posts
fixed title.
the way it read was like click bait, like the thing came down like a non-motorized gate with zero strut pressure
With all due respect to the moderators like yourself - you can diminish the report by arbitrarily modifying the title of a post, and in this case, you have. Unless I'm mistaken, no where did someone indicate they were knocked to the ground and received a concussion. This is akin to "just making stuff up".

I also find it rather interesting people debating - did the person, could the person get a concussion? could the CT scan, Dr, symptoms support such a diagnosis.

That wasn't really the MAIN point was it?

IMHO, It would have been more prudent if you had just changed the title to: Struck by the liftgate and got hurt...
 

·
Registered
2017 2.5i Premium Lapis Blue
Joined
·
2,890 Posts
With all due respect to the moderators like yourself - you can diminish the report by arbitrarily modifying the title of a post, and in this case, you have. Unless I'm mistaken, no where did someone indicate they were knocked to the ground and received a concussion. This is akin to "just making stuff up".

I also find it rather interesting people debating - did the person, could the person get a concussion? could the CT scan, Dr, symptoms support such a diagnosis.

That wasn't really the MAIN point was it?

IMHO, It would have been more prudent if you had just changed the title to: Struck by the liftgate and got hurt...
Exactly my first thought when I saw the changed thread title. When did a fall come into the picture? Now it sounds like the OP just got jostled by the gate and fell down and hit their head on the ground.

I've never visited a forum where thread titles get edited so often as they do here. Sometimes it makes sense; many times it doesn't.


And for posterity in case it gets changed again so later readers will know what the title was changed to:
Getting bumped by Lift Gate > Fall Caused Concussion

I don't remember exactly what the original wording was or I would put that as well.
 

·
Brucey
'17 3.6 Limited
Joined
·
9,881 Posts
With all due respect to the moderators like yourself - you can diminish the report by arbitrarily modifying the title of a post, and in this case, you have. Unless I'm mistaken, no where did someone indicate they were knocked to the ground and received a concussion. This is akin to "just making stuff up".

I also find it rather interesting people debating - did the person, could the person get a concussion? could the CT scan, Dr, symptoms support such a diagnosis.

That wasn't really the MAIN point was it?

IMHO, It would have been more prudent if you had just changed the title to: Struck by the liftgate and got hurt...
I agree with you. I didn't catch that so thanks for pointing it out.

I'll change it. Do we know what was the title originally?

I'm also considering converting the manual tailgate back to auto (shouldn't take but 20 minutes) and doing some tests myself.

I still would prefer OP check theirs out.
 

·
On the Super Mod Squad
2002 Pair: 3.0 VDC Wag & 2.5 Limited Sedan
Joined
·
25,405 Posts
original title was: 'Outback Lift Gate Caused Concussion' I am fine with the better fix of the fix.;)

@Brucey you can see the alterations by clicking the 3 dots at the top right of the thread, and the bottom option is "moderator actions" showing the list of changes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Rereading the OP, she mentioned getting hit on the side of the head. I'm just guessing, but I doubt she had her head tilted sideways in a manner where the gate would come straight down and make contact with the side of her head. So I think it's fair to assume that it was a glancing blow. A glancing blow from the corner of your lift gate isn't going to cause enough resistance to stop one.

Also everyone is different and what might cause a concussion for one person, wouldn't for 100's of others. If they were to try and make these sensitive enough to cover every possible scenario, then a slight breeze would stop them.
 

·
Registered
19 2.5i OB LTD w/SSD Strt Twr Brc + OEM 19mm RSB
Joined
·
1,218 Posts
FWIW - I tried obstructing the gate today with my hands, and with only moderate force, got the gate to reverse direction. However, when I was hit in the shoulder a little after purchasing the car - wow the contact force seemed very significant and as I mentioned, it hurt like H_LL.

It's not beyond reason that the mechanism that senses force is rather simple, and has a simplistic adjustment. With the motor and gate arm the way it is, I suspect the actual force needed for resistance to get the gate to back up is going to be highly variable and dependant on gate open/closed angle... It may also differ based on if the gate is in the state of closing or opening, and also the angle the resistant force is applied to the gate.

@Brucey - your experiment would be biased already by the fact you intend to re-assemble the automatic mechanism. Therefore, it's not likely to be installed to spec (no offense). And even if installed to spec, what would that spec be? Even if it could be tested to some objective spec... it's likely if we instrumented some surface with strain-gauges to measure force, and we placed that surface at varying heights, the amount of force to cause the gate to reverse direction would change.

Now we change vehicles and re-run, and likely there is a range of forces at differing heights for the population of gates tested.
 

·
Brucey
'17 3.6 Limited
Joined
·
9,881 Posts
FWIW - I tried obstructing the gate today with my hands, and with only moderate force, got the gate to reverse direction. However, when I was hit in the shoulder a little after purchasing the car - wow the contact force seemed very significant and as I mentioned, it hurt like H_LL.

It's not beyond reason that the mechanism that senses force is rather simple, and has a simplistic adjustment. With the motor and gate arm the way it is, I suspect the actual force needed for resistance to get the gate to back up is going to be highly variable and dependant on gate open/closed angle... It may also differ based on if the gate is in the state of closing or opening, and also the angle the resistant force is applied to the gate.

@Brucey - your experiment would be biased already by the fact you intend to re-assemble the automatic mechanism. Therefore, it's not likely to be installed to spec (no offense). And even if installed to spec, what would that spec be? Even if it could be tested to some objective spec... it's likely if we instrumented some surface with strain-gauges to measure force, and we placed that surface at varying heights, the amount of force to cause the gate to reverse direction would change.

Now we change vehicles and re-run, and likely there is a range of forces at differing heights for the population of gates tested.
I mean maybe but the only thing I really did is remove the arm, swap struts, and disconnect a sensor. The motor is still there and functional. It's completely reversible.

I could measure in different spots with a weight/scale and see if there are hot spots.

Dunno really. I'm all ears.
 

·
On the Super Mod Squad
2002 Pair: 3.0 VDC Wag & 2.5 Limited Sedan
Joined
·
25,405 Posts
Dunno really. I'm all ears.
Mr. Youtube

are you going to pull out the stuffed animals and blow up dolls,? ...the standins for the proper hybrid dummies used at IIHS.org
 

·
Registered
2017 2.5i Premium Lapis Blue
Joined
·
2,890 Posts
FWIW - I tried obstructing the gate today with my hands, and with only moderate force, got the gate to reverse direction. However, when I was hit in the shoulder a little after purchasing the car - wow the contact force seemed very significant and as I mentioned, it hurt like H_LL.
I don't have any problem believing that someone could get whacked pretty hard on the noggin' by being in the way when the gate starts coming down. Say the person is turning around or backing up to clear the gate and their head is moving toward the gate coming in the other direction. A head-on collision if you will. See what I did there? 😁

Anyway, that multiplies the amount of impact from just what it would be standing still and having the gate contacting a stationary brain bucket. I'm also one of the skeptical regarding this being an actual concussion but I am also nowhere near qualified to say it couldn't be so. I'm not sure why anyone would hit the close button when they or someone else is in the way but I'm sure I have done stupider things in my life and likely will do more of them. But basically you wouldn't slam your driver's door with your leg still sticking out. And you wouldn't slam the rear door when your kid is halfway in the car.

Should a manual rear gate have a safety mechanism to keep it from being slammed on someone?

I get why the safeties are there but it seems like the best safety feature is common sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Has any Subaru owner having a power lift gate ever had the hatch come down on you when you couldn't get out of the way in time after pushing the button? This may sound crazy, but I got a concussion when it struck me on the side of my head as it came down. I thought my granddaughter had moved out of my way when I pushed the button to close the hatch, but she was standing so close to me I was unable to get out of the way in time. Unfortunately, the liftgate does not have a system that stops the hatch from lowering if something or someone is in the way, like an automatic garage door has. While it took some time to heal from the concussion, my biggest concern is if a child is struck by the hatch. It is an extremely heavy liftgate and came down hard enough on me to cause a concussion. Imagine the injury it could cause to a child. I contacted Subaru, but they are not showing any interest in examining and correcting the problem. I would hate to hear of a child getting injured or killed because they won't address this issue.
I believe you. Regardless of what speed a big chunk of steel comes down, things can happen...even a traumatic brain injury. Im not suggesting a lawsuit. However, a concussion can have long term or permanent consequences. If it was me, I'd get immediately evaluated by a physician qualified and understanding to your injury. I don't think medical doctors can do much for your brain injury other than be a somewhat objective 3rd party of record. If you need medical bills/claim, that would be important. (Disclaimer: none of this is legal advice, nor is it medical advice. Its just one neighbor talking to another at no charge). Some find relief through prayer, the right nutritional supplements, and right chiropractor who deals with head trauma and cranial adjustments. That's an oversimplification of what one man found to help himself and others with traumatic brain injuries. The details are beyond the scope of a car forum, unfortunately.

It was good of you to let the company know of their products' malfunction, but don't expect any recourse from them. They are likely concerned only that a law suit might cost an increase in their insurance premium and potentially a recall if this happens to many others. Not to say that you shouldn't pursue appropriate recourse. [Before others accuse me of recommending that you sue them, may it be known that I'm not recommending anything other than what I said. ] That's based on my personal experiences with big companies and big liers (lawyers) over such things. YMMV and i hope that you get a peaceful resolution....ESPECIALLY with your poor head. At this early point, maybe you dont have enough information in order to make any decisions other than what is best for healing. I'd add to keep ALL records on file.

To your health,
🍵🙂🌱

PS: IF you need legal recourse, please do not let me or any of the guys and gals talk you into OR out of it. Its your personal decision, of course. There is Nothing immoral about doing that if it is justified and you weigh all options IMHO. Like, ive already said, it may be too early to decide whats necessary. You might only need to hire someone to write a simple letter to get them to take care of medical bills and not need a suit. Who knows... I dont think we do? The company would likely just turn your claim over to insurance who have some big law firm full of stuffed shirts of high paid garden fertilizer. They might want to fight it for sake of racking up payable hours. Thats what I've seen in my days on earth for what its worth. The best to you.

To lawyers:
If your reading this and you take offense to my comments. Keep in mind that I dont think you're ALL a pile of garden compost. Its just the 99% that give the 1% a BAD NAME. 😄
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
843 Posts
This isn't a garage door and there aren't sensors telling it that something is in the way. It has to hit something and get some resistance before it will reverse.
Ah.... my garage door senses obstructions and responds to pressure contact.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
843 Posts
It’s obviously been a slow period on the forums...... a claim that demands Subaru “Do something...” over an injury who’s mechanism and force doesn‘t support the extend of the claimed injury, has generated 5 pages of responses. . Hysteria over thinking there was concussion can present the pseudo symptoms.... Concussions require certain force, motion and direction..... getting struck by a slow moving gate doesn’t rise to those levels....and apparently SOA knows it and has responded to the OP’s complaint in kind.

you can bet SOAA has conducted extensive research into the design and operation of its lift gates Under a variety of conditions of use.

as someone already stated.... ”there’s nothing to see here....move on” the OP started the thread from their own angst......and some seem to be getting twisted around her axle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
I believe you. Regardless of what speed a big chunk of steel comes down, things can happen...even a traumatic brain injury. Im not suggesting a lawsuit. However, a concussion can have long term or permanent consequences. If it was me, I'd get immediately evaluated by a physician qualified and understanding to your injury. I don't think medical doctors can do much for your brain injury other than be a somewhat objective 3rd party of record. If you need medical bills/claim, that would be important. (Disclaimer: none of this is legal advice, nor is it medical advice. Its just one neighbor talking to another at no charge). Some find relief through prayer, the right nutritional supplements, and right chiropractor who deals with head trauma and cranial adjustments. That's an oversimplification of what one man found to help himself and others with traumatic brain injuries. The details are beyond the scope of a car forum, unfortunately.

It was good of you to let the company know of their products' malfunction, but don't expect any recourse from them. They are likely concerned only that a law suit might cost an increase in their insurance premium and potentially a recall if this happens to many others. Not to say that you shouldn't pursue appropriate recourse. [Before others accuse me of recommending that you sue them, may it be known that I'm not recommending anything other than what I said. ] That's based on my personal experiences with big companies and big liers (lawyers) over such things. YMMV and i hope that you get a peaceful resolution....ESPECIALLY with your poor head. At this early point, maybe you dont have enough information in order to make any decisions other than what is best for healing. I'd add to keep ALL records on file.

To your health,
🍵🙂🌱

PS: IF you need legal recourse, please do not let me or any of the guys and gals talk you into OR out of it. Its your personal decision, of course. There is Nothing immoral about doing that if it is justified and you weigh all options IMHO. Like, ive already said, it may be too early to decide whats necessary. You might only need to hire someone to write a simple letter to get them to take care of medical bills and not need a suit. Who knows... I dont think we do? The company would likely just turn your claim over to insurance who have some big law firm full of stuffed shirts of high paid garden fertilizer. They might want to fight it for sake of racking up payable hours. Thats what I've seen in my days on earth for what its worth. The best to you.

To lawyers:
If your reading this and you take offense to my comments. Keep in mind that I dont think you're ALL a pile of garden compost. Its just the 99% that give the 1% a BAD NAME. 😄
Again a lot of assuming that there was a malfunction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Again a lot of assuming that there was a malfunction.
Originaltwotone,

She posted an experience. I choose to believe that she is NOT making up a story to waste everyone's time or to garner sympathy, or any other nefarious motives that you guys may think of. IF I were on a jury making a decision of any consequence, I would demand of both sides ALL available evidence and be as objective as possible. However WE, (That's you, me, and the rest of you), are nothing more than strangers making all kinds of "assumptions" ,if you will, about this thread. So what's that worth? A grande' mocha capa late' at Starbucks?

God only knows all of the intricate details of that event posted. I took it to Him already on behalf of this grandmother. (Yes, I am assuming she didn't make that part up too.)
I'm guessing that she has a pretty good idea of what happened. So, for all of you doubters, I too am sceptical of many things in life and more than most. However, if I am in error, I will pray for her complete recovery and shall err on the side that she is being completely truthful. I hope that she has no long term repercussions from her concussion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Originaltwotone,

She posted an experience. I choose to believe that she is NOT making up a story to waste everyone's time or to garner sympathy, or any other nefarious motives that you guys may think of. IF I were on a jury making a decision of any consequence, I would demand of both sides ALL available evidence and be as objective as possible. However WE, (That's you, me, and the rest of you), are nothing more than strangers making all kinds of "assumptions" ,if you will, about this thread. So what's that worth? A grande' mocha capa late' at Starbucks?

God only knows all of the intricate details of that event posted. I took it to Him already on behalf of this grandmother. (Yes, I am assuming she didn't make that part up too.)
I'm guessing that she has a pretty good idea of what happened. So, for all of you doubters, I too am sceptical of many things in life and more than most. However, if I am in error, I will pray for her complete recovery and shall err on the side that she is being completely truthful. I hope that she has no long term repercussions from her concussion.
No said that and I don't see anyone implying shes lying. No one was there and if she truly suffered a concussion, she may not be remembering what happened correctly.

I remember similar situations, but it wasn't a tail gate. You think your kid has moved and you sort of trip over them. You upper body moves forward as you stumble into them. The nateral reaction is to right yourself.

For all we know, that's exactly what happened to her, no pressure sensor is going to pick that up period.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
843 Posts
Originaltwotone,

She posted an experience. I choose to believe that she is NOT making up a story to waste everyone's time or to garner sympathy, or any other nefarious motives that you guys may think of. IF I were on a jury making a decision of any consequence, I would demand of both sides ALL available evidence and be as objective as possible. However WE, (That's you, me, and the rest of you), are nothing more than strangers making all kinds of "assumptions" ,if you will, about this thread. So what's that worth? A grande' mocha capa late' at Starbucks?

God only knows all of the intricate details of that event posted. I took it to Him already on behalf of this grandmother. (Yes, I am assuming she didn't make that part up too.)
I'm guessing that she has a pretty good idea of what happened. So, for all of you doubters, I too am sceptical of many things in life and more than most. However, if I am in error, I will pray for her complete recovery and shall err on the side that she is being completely truthful. I hope that she has no long term repercussions from her concussion.
So, it’s already in the hands of a jury... hmmm. So far, it seems the story isn’t being refuted....rather the seriousness of the claim Is in doubt....and that is not an assumption.....it simply doesn’t add up with the forces involved based upon experiences with the lift gate‘s downforce And speed.
 
61 - 80 of 91 Posts
Top