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Discussion Starter #1
Did anyone consider a Honda Pilot in the their selection process before buying an Outback - particularly a 2005 OB? If so, I would be interested in hearing comments - both pro and con as to how you felt it compared to the Outback.

The Pilot is in a different class simply by virtue of it's larger size and and hauling capacity - but I'm still interested in comments.


:8:

TIA
 

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Completely different vehicles, each with their own virtues and drawbacks.

They are bot excellent vehicles that meet very different needs so only you can decide which one is right for you.

The Pilot is much larger, great if you transport lots of stuff or kids. Also more suitable for towing a big boat or something like that. But it is basically a truck, and it drives like one.

The Outback is a sport wagon. It handles better than most regular cars and it can be VERY fast and sporty in XT trim. It is a blast to drive, yet it is highly capable and provides high utility and excellent off-road capability. If you do plan to do some light off-roading, I would recommend the auto tranny.

Hope this helps.
 

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sduford said:
The Pilot is much larger, great if you transport lots of stuff or kids. Also more suitable for towing a big boat or something like that. But it is basically a truck, and it drives like one.
I wouldn't go as far as saying that the Pilot is better for towing, I think it can only tow like 3000 lbs. Thats not much more that the Outback's 2700lb. limit, both cars were made to tow things like lawnmowers or motorcycles.

I wouldn't even mention the word truck and Honda Pilot in the same line. The Pilot does have a large body and a large interior like most SUV's although it lacks a true truck frame and engine. Honestly if anything I'd just consider it as an AWD Honda Oddessey, or at least if the Oddessey was AWD I really don't think there'd be an actual need for the Pilot. Seriously the Pilot only serves those who want to be driving an SUV but other than having AWD I can't see what it has over a minivan.

And even while having AWD I don't consider a Pilot or any AWD Honda anywhere close to a Subaru. Hondas are ALL FWD cars and the AWD cars are just FWD vehicles with RWD assist, not a true AWD vehicle. Also consider that Honda's AWD DOES NOT operate above 45 MPH.

I considered the Pilot before I bought my Outback, and I did a ton of research. As safe as a Pilot may be, the AWD issue was what drove me away from it (no pun intended) ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hero Boots said:


I wouldn't go as far as saying that the Pilot is better for towing, I think it can only tow like 3000 lbs. Thats not much more that the Outback's 2700lb. limit, both cars were made to tow things like lawnmowers or motorcycles.

I wouldn't even mention the word truck and Honda Pilot in the same line. The Pilot does have a large body and a large interior like most SUV's although it lacks a true truck frame and engine. Honestly if anything I'd just consider it as an AWD Honda Oddessey, or at least if the Oddessey was AWD I really don't think there'd be an actual need for the Pilot. Seriously the Pilot only serves those who want to be driving an SUV but other than having AWD I can't see what it has over a minivan.

And even while having AWD I don't consider a Pilot or any AWD Honda anywhere close to a Subaru. Hondas are ALL FWD cars and the AWD cars are just FWD vehicles with RWD assist, not a true AWD vehicle. Also consider that Honda's AWD DOES NOT operate above 45 MPH.

I considered the Pilot before I bought my Outback, and I did a ton of research. As safe as a Pilot may be, the AWD issue was what drove me away from it (no pun intended) ;)
Good comments. The Pilot will actually tow up to 4500 with the complete towing package. And I share your feeling that the Subaru AWD system is superior. The real plus that the Pilot offers is hauling capacity - either people or cargo.

On the fence...................
 

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We looked at the Pilot. A spacious vehicle. It felt boxy to me, like I was driving a big "BOX". I liked the view, looking down at the car people and all. My wife didn't like the coloumn (sp) shifter, we're older but not that old yet. Had the shifter been in the middle like an MDX we might not have 05 OB (2.5i 5-spd ) in the driveway now. We test drove the Subaru 05 OB on two occasions. Around town in the rain, up and down hills and through older neighborhoods with steep driveways with poor pavement where we turned around. We took the 05 OB out for a long drive on mainly interstate, gone for nearly an hour. We of course told the salesman first.
 

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Rollover Ratings

I was interested to learn that a 2004 Honda Pilot 4-DR. w/SAB has the same NHTSA Rollover Rating as a 2004 Subaru Outback 4-DR. Wagon (4 star rating, 15% Rollover Chance.) Prob. has alot to do with up to the 8.8" wider track on the Pilot -- (front track: 66.3", rear track: 66.5", VS. the '04-'05 OB 2.5i, front track: 57.9", rear track: 57.7.")

The NHTSA site doesn't say if the above tested OB had the optional (in '05 anyway) Vehicle Dynamics Control System (VDCS).

FWIW, the best '04 Rollover rating went to the 2004 Mazda Miata/MX-5 2-DR. Convertible, with 5 stars and a 7% Rollover Chance and the worst offender was a 2004 Ford Explorer Sport Trac with 2 stars and 34% Rollover Chance!
http://www.safercar.gov/RollRatings.cfm

I looked up the Rollover ratings because recently my family and I witnessed a downside of driving a car with a higher center of gravity. On the interstate at about 60 mph a Honda CR-V swerved right, overcorrected left on a slight off-camber, flipped over, rolled 1.5 onto it's roof and T-boned the Jersey barrier. The Honda contained a family on Thanksgiving exodus and was thankfully well protected by airbags and seatbelts.

I know the view is nice from a high perch and ground clearance can be useful to a few (esp. yours truly) but maybe more people should consider the tip-over thing.

I see the 2003 CR-V got a NHTSA 3 star Rollover Rating:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/NCAP/BASC2003/suv1.html

I can't quantify the 3 star rating but I will say that it flipped WAY to easily!!! It wasn't even "tripped" by a pothole or curb or anything and it was a new looking CR-V but don't know if it had Electronic Stability Control which is std. on at least '05's:
http://www.safercar.gov/pages/ESC-EquippedVehicles-2005.htm

All that being said, I did see a BMW wagon flip under similar flat road circumstances but there was no off-camber and more overcorrection as the car was skidding right, left, right then rolled -- don't know if that was an anomaly. (Heard that some BMW convertibles had roll bars that deployed automatically if the car was about to flip over.)

Best,
Shannon
 

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colorider said:


Good comments. The Pilot will actually tow up to 4500 with the complete towing package. And I share your feeling that the Subaru AWD system is superior. The real plus that the Pilot offers is hauling capacity - either people or cargo.

On the fence...................
Yes I agree that the Pilot does offer a cavern for cargo area, especially with both rows of seats folded. Also it has a huge passenger area, really a lot more than most mid and full sized SUVs. It rides nice, handles decent, and the engine is adequate.

My debacle was that I didn't like having to negotiate with the Honda salespersons, mind you that I had done this before with the Civic that I had owned previous to my Outback. Just to get comfortable pricing on my Civic I had to go to the mattresses with the Honda boys for three days, and mind you that I did say "comfortable pricing." I started haggling on Monday and on Friday I finally signed for the car. Pure pain, an entire week of wasted phone calls and time in general. And I ended up hating the car! :banghead:

Anyway when the Pilot hit the streets I was already a big MDX fan and thought that this was "MY CAR." Although I realistically could not afford it or a Murano (what a coincidence how I shopped for that to) I still tried to swindle the dealers to no avail. Honda and Nissan dealers just don't budge :rolleyes: All that being said I ended up with two choices on my mind... Honda Element or Subaru WRX. I didn't like the WRX and the Element just didn't have the power I wanted and there was the Honda AWD thingy as well.

So whilst shopping for a WRX I saw what would be known as ***The Royal Trumpets Sound***
THE HERO WAGON!!!

So I got that and a few months later decided to piggyback off of the three sites I had been a member of for so long and created what is now a legend...

***The Royal Trumpets Sound YET AGAIN!!!***


SUBARUOUTBACK.ORG!!!


***Colo, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread and rambling on, I just like to revisit the legendary tales of yore :D
 

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if we're going to get heroic epics, when do they serve the horns full of mead...??:D

"and then Hero smote the evil dwarves of Castle Honda with a mighty blow...."
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hero Boots said:


~massive snip~

***The Royal Trumpets Sound YET AGAIN!!!***


SUBARUOUTBACK.ORG!!!


***Colo, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread and rambling on, I just like to revisit the legendary tales of yore :D
You didn't hijack it - all good input!!! You are very correct about it being much more difficult to deal with the Honda stealer as compared to the Subaru (or many others). In the end though, this is reflected in the higher residual value of the Honda (typically) compared to others. IMHO - YMMV
 

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There was no such thing as a Pilot in 98 when I got my OB, but I would not consider one now, anyway. I refuse to drive a Mobile Blind Spot that robs other drivers of their view. To me, those people who want their "commanding view" at the expense of others are inconsiderate [email protected]!

:mad:

...which is why "always jump the Mobile Blind Spot" is a credo for me - get around them and be able to see the road you are trying to travel. Otherwise, might as well drive with your hand over your eyes.

That's also why I tend to park in BFE, in hopes of avoiding one of those pricks parking next to me and keeping me from seeing down the aisle when I pull (forward) out of a parking space.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The_Lizard said:
There was no such thing as a Pilot in 98 when I got my OB, but I would not consider one now, anyway. I refuse to drive a Mobile Blind Spot that robs other drivers of their view. To me, those people who want their "commanding view" at the expense of others are inconsiderate [email protected]!

:mad:

...which is why "always jump the Mobile Blind Spot" is a credo for me - get around them and be able to see the road you are trying to travel. Otherwise, might as well drive with your hand over your eyes.

That's also why I tend to park in BFE, in hopes of avoiding one of those pricks parking next to me and keeping me from seeing down the aisle when I pull (forward) out of a parking space.
Don't hold back - tell us how you REALLY feel!!!! :D
 

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Hero Boots said:


I wouldn't go as far as saying that the Pilot is better for towing, I think it can only tow like 3000 lbs. Thats not much more that the Outback's 2700lb. limit, both cars were made to tow things like lawnmowers or motorcycles.

I wouldn't even mention the word truck and Honda Pilot in the same line. The Pilot does have a large body and a large interior like most SUV's although it lacks a true truck frame and engine. Honestly if anything I'd just consider it as an AWD Honda Oddessey, or at least if the Oddessey was AWD I really don't think there'd be an actual need for the Pilot. Seriously the Pilot only serves those who want to be driving an SUV but other than having AWD I can't see what it has over a minivan.

And even while having AWD I don't consider a Pilot or any AWD Honda anywhere close to a Subaru. Hondas are ALL FWD cars and the AWD cars are just FWD vehicles with RWD assist, not a true AWD vehicle. Also consider that Honda's AWD DOES NOT operate above 45 MPH.

I considered the Pilot before I bought my Outback, and I did a ton of research. As safe as a Pilot may be, the AWD issue was what drove me away from it (no pun intended) ;)
It can actually tow 4500 lbs.

It may not be a true truck but it still handles like one. And so waht if it is just an AWD minivan? That's what many people want.

Sure the Subaru AWD is superior, but he's not buying an AWD system, he's buying a car, and the Honda's AWD system will satisfy most people's need.

But yes the Outback is far superior in many ways, and I enjoy mine a lot, especially since I just moved away from a tall boxy and boring SUV.

But the Outback may or may not meet his needs., if he wants an AWD minivan, then all the power to him.
 

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interestingly, his reasoning...cavernous interior space....points up a minor peeve of mine: WHY doesn't Sub make a "forester-plus" on the Legacy OB chassis???!!!

seems likeit wouldn't be that expensive to engineer since the base platform exists, is EPA/DOT approved, etc. i think they lose a lot of sales to Pilots etc due to lakc of such a vehicle, and it wouldn't give up all the sub virtues we love while seeming a lot more directly comepetitive with SUVs. sure, OB may have more ground clearance than an Exploder, but it doesn't look "buff" enuff to give people the impression that it has good off road capabilities. Forester, OTOH, does, but is eliminated by lots of people cuz it's too small.

please, Santa, bring us these instead of that Saturn-in-drag atrocity i've seen pix of recently........:(
 

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Subaru will be offering a "Crossover Utility Vehicle" in 2006. It's called the BX9.

Go to http://www.subaru.com/ and check it out -- they have it plastered all over the site. (all of the links are java popups so I can't post a direct one)
 

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a "Crossover Utility Vehicle" in 2006. It's called the BX9.


yeah, THAT Saturn-in-drag atrocity. :16: Reward the Gen'ral by buying those things but don't complain when the Aztek is rebadged as a sub.....

i'm with the Liz on this issue. people are welcome to buy all the fossil-fuel-sucking, rollover-prone wallowing, view-blocking piles of cr, er, steel they want, but they shd get dragged into the lawsuit when they contribute to others to having accidents by blocking their vision.....one thing you learn ona motorcylce is to look not at the car in front of you, but sevl cars ahead. good plan for drivng cars too. can't do that if you can't see thorugh the Escalade in front of you.

i'd like to believe that natural selection will take the owners of such out of the breeding pool when they roll em (rolling rolling rolling, Ford Exploders rollin....), but i doubt it will happen fast enough to make a difference. :(
 

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Hero Boots said:


I wouldn't go as far as saying that the Pilot is better for towing, I think it can only tow like 3000 lbs. Thats not much more that the Outback's 2700lb. limit, both cars were made to tow things like lawnmowers or motorcycles.

Hmm your USA Outbacks must be rated lower for towing, I just got a full towing pack on mine yesterday and the sticker on the towbar says 1800kg (3960lbs) max with brakes for the 3.0R, 180kg (396)lbs ball weight with ride level bars. Those are the official legal ratings here anyway. :D
 

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*drums fingers*

When the voices told me to clean the Smith & Wesson 19-5 today, I thought that was reasonable. When the cleaning kit was 50% off at Galyans, I told the clerk "how perfect is that?" But when I enjoyed the smell of the nitro cleaning solvent, I realized that I might have a problem.






p.s., my apartment was burglarized this week and is now secured with a piece of plywood held in place with duct tape, instead of a rear window.

Click
 

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I have a Pilot and an '02 OBSdn, and I like them both for their intended purposes.

The Subie is the "around towner" car for my wife and I; to work, shopping, errands, etc. and it's great for that. Gets 26 MPG, heavy, safe vehicle, and sharp looking, too. It's not that comfortable for long trips (8-24 hours) and the back is kinda tight for Jr's carseat. She's always had sports cars, and she likes that it's a similar feel to her Mom's old Mercedes.

The Pilot is the "Daddy Wagon" and "trip mobile". Hauling the kid around, hauling lawn mowers, House Depot runs, etc. as well as driving to visit the Grannies. (It's amazing how such little people require SO MUCH STUFF!) I'm getting about 20+MPG so far with mine, and it's much more nimble and "right sized" than some of the other SUV's and mini-vans (ack!) I test drove. It's very comfortable for long trips (did a recent 5 hour non-stop stretch..piece of cake).

The Pilot replaced a '97 Explorer, that was great 'till it hit 100k and every service visit was $500+. THAT rode like a truck! Coupled with those terrible OEM Firestones, the ride was AWFUL. But it was the best for me at the time. I've always had trucks, and like the feel of "driving like a truck", however the Pilot is much more refined than a typical truck.
 
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