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I like most of the brands of standard/recycled oil and synthetic (Valvoline, Castrol, Pennzoil, WalMart, Chevron, Mobil, etc.), but a Pro Subie Rally Team Chief Tech/Mechanic I spoke too thinks the benefits of Syn are a myth and a waste of money. He went further to state that syn actually causes the leaking problems that it is commonly blamed for in older cars and now - newer cars. Why would a guy who makes his living repairing Rally moded STIs tell me that?

Does he just want to see those non-synthetic oil cars in his shop or is he speaking honestly from a great depth of experience?

I know people like the long-life, high temp characteristics of Syn which makes sense if used in those applications.

Do the benefits outweigh those acheived with cheaper standard oil with regular 5-7k mile change intervals?

Are there more engine leaks using syn?

Doe Syn make sense?
 

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(...) He went further to state that syn actually causes the leaking problems that it is commonly blamed for in older cars and now - newer cars. (...)
That is the myth. This problem has been solved long time ago.

Do the benefits outweigh those acheived with cheaper standard oil with regular 5-7k mile change intervals?
There is no benefit in changing the oil before it is necessairy.

Are there more engine leaks using syn?
No.

Doe Syn make sense?
Sure.
 

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Racing is not equal to daily driving. Appling race logic to daily driving doesn't always make sense.

Ask your friend why manufacturers require synthetic in certain models (like SubieTurbo)?

Racing would be considered "extreme driving conditions." I would totally agree with your buddy that using synthetic in that situation is a waste of money. They would be draining the oil after almost every race so why use synthetic?

I've seen people put synthetic in old and new cars (even recently) that have caused leaks. This can happen for many reasons and is not directly always related to the oil being synthetic but more of a grade/compatibility issue. Dino oil is much better made than it used to be and can give you outstanding performance (most brands) during your oil change interval.

And after saying all that I still use Mobile 1. If my oil analysis shows no real impact I'll most like switch back to dino.
 

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  • number of trips and distance traveled per trip per day
  • extreme hot or cold climate conditions
  • mountainous, dusty or de-iced roads
  • heavy stop-and-go vs. long-distance cruising
  • towing a trailer or other heavy load
these are some of the extreme driving conditions lol in other words just dont drive on earth u might be better off lol
 

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Discussion Starter #6
  • number of trips and distance traveled per trip per day
  • extreme hot or cold climate conditions
  • mountainous, dusty or de-iced roads
  • heavy stop-and-go vs. long-distance cruising
  • towing a trailer or other heavy load
these are some of the extreme driving conditions lol in other words just dont drive on earth u might be better off lol

Looks like you have a lot of suspension mods. Has your OB handling tightened up considerably?

The mechanic makes his living on subie repairs and mods that are on regular change (not race intervals), so his syn opinions were based on commuter-recreational driving under moderate to the extreme conditions you mention above.

number of trips and distance traveled per trip per day
extreme hot or cold climate conditions
mountainous, dusty or de-iced roads
heavy stop-and-go vs. long-distance cruising
towing a trailer or other heavy load
ALL OF WHICH APPLY to me

He just felt that dino juice could perform at a level that made syn a waste of money.

The master subie mechanic and shop owner said he had seen too many leaks caused by syn on older vehicles.

I have been running Valvoline syn in my OB since about 20k miles. So the advice I was given made me scratch my head especially since there are more than a few manufacturers who require it and members like Primotente who are devout believers in the superiority of synthetic oil over dino.
 

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It was a long time ago when I was in fleet management but I recall sales people giving us demos with heat. Then we took two identical trucks when new changing one to synthetic. I was sold.

I ran Mobile 1 in our Volvo before it was the factory spec. It's buyer took the car to an independent mechanic who checked it out and did oil analysis. He said the engine was in good shape and sounded "young for its age". The woman interested upped her offer when another buyer for the car was interested. We never had turbo problems. I was sold.

My '99 4Runner has been Mobile 1 since 2nd oil change. It's tight, reliable, two I know what to buy it because of that. I have had long oil change intervals the life of the vehicle - the intervals in the manual, not the 3000 dealers and oil change places try for. Again, seems worth it.
 

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what race team keeps ANY oil in the race car for more than one race?
And what race team cares about getting 200k miles,
(or even 20k miles!) between complete tear-downs?

That said, high quality dino juice will keep any modern
engine in good shape for longer than the life of the car.

...synthetic = belt AND suspenders,

Looby
 

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And what race team cares about getting 200k miles,
(or even 20k miles!) between complete tear-downs?

That said, high quality dino juice will keep any modern
engine in good shape for longer than the life of the car.

...synthetic = belt AND suspenders,

Looby
yeah, the performance DIFFERENCE between conv. and synth seems to be narrower nowadays. Engine designs have improved as well.

belt & suspenders? yeah, may be a lot of truth there.
 

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  • number of trips and distance traveled per trip per day
  • extreme hot or cold climate conditions
  • mountainous, dusty or de-iced roads
  • heavy stop-and-go vs. long-distance cruising
  • towing a trailer or other heavy load
Basura, and propaganda from places that want to change your oil.



How would motor oil have any idea it's on a dusty or de-iced road? Stop and go traffic is hard on an engine? Please. It's practically idling the whole time.



Engine wear is about two things. Heat and engine cycles.


90% of engine wear takes place on start up, so the worst thing you can do to a car is start it up cold and drive it a block and shut it down. Rinse, repeat. Once it is running then there is no metal to metal contact. None. A decent supply of fresh oil and you're good to go.



So whether you get on the freeway and drive or whether you sit in traffic, as long as the cooling system is functioning properly there is no difference in wear.


If you expose the oil to extreme heat (inadequate cooling system used for towing, racing, or rush hour in death valley) then the oil will suffer.
 

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Most of the new Subaru's come from the factory with either a 0w-20 synthetic or a 5w-30 synthetic (turbo models). These low viscosity oils will provide better extreme temp performance, longer service intervals and slightly higher fuel efficiency than thicker petroleum lubes. With a top tier synthetic (Amsoil, Pennzoil Ultra, Mobil 1/EP, Redline, etc), you can easily run the maximum recommended change interval even under "severe service" conditions.

TS
 

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I like most of the brands of standard/recycled oil and synthetic (Valvoline, Castrol, Pennzoil, WalMart, Chevron, Mobil, etc.), but a Pro Subie Rally Team Chief Tech/Mechanic I spoke too thinks the benefits of Syn are a myth and a waste of money. He went further to state that syn actually causes the leaking problems that it is commonly blamed for in older cars and now - newer cars. Why would a guy who makes his living repairing Rally moded STIs tell me that?

Does he just want to see those non-synthetic oil cars in his shop or is he speaking honestly from a great depth of experience?

I know people like the long-life, high temp characteristics of Syn which makes sense if used in those applications.

Do the benefits outweigh those acheived with cheaper standard oil with regular 5-7k mile change intervals?

Are there more engine leaks using syn?

Doe Syn make sense?
As one who sells syn lubes, I can tell your I have heard this story a hundred times. I can also say I have about 200 customers that would ask for a fact check on the old horror stories. I will let you know in a month or so after I get my '13 3.6 In the meantime, would you please let me know what those assessories are you list about your OB? I am new to the site, and to the OB and I have a lot to learn.

Thank you,
 

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As one who sells syn lubes, I can tell your I have heard this story a hundred times. I can also say I have about 200 customers that would ask for a fact check on the old horror stories. I will let you know in a month or so after I get my '13 3.6 In the meantime, would you please let me know what those assessories are you list about your OB? I am new to the site, and to the OB and I have a lot to learn.

Thank you,
One other thought on they synthetic oil: I believe all new Subies ship with synthetic... at least my sister's Forrester did. Makes one wonder why SOA ship with syn if it wasn't what was best for the vehicle.
 

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First off, the Internet breeds myths like little bunny rabbits.

The superiority of synthetic to conventional ("dino") oil is not an opinion. It is a fact; I recommend a visit to BITOG (Bob Is The Oil Guy). Thousands of UOAs can't be wrong. Can you run dino? Yeah, as long as the manufacturer allows it. After all, it's YOUR car's longevity.

The three thousand mile OCI? Once again, go to BITOG per above. At one time it was not a myth. When bright Achilles fought Hector before the walls of Troy, that was not a myth, either. But it's a myth now. I'm old enough to remember quart glass bottles of non-detergent oil with metal funnels on top, racked up next to the pumps, so that the customer could get a couple of quarts when he gassed up. Things have changed. A lot of things, and in this case anyone is completely safe following the manufacturer's OCI recommendations.

"Anyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled to their own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan
 

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If you have leaks with conventional oil, you'll have leaks with synthetic and vice versa. Back when synthetics first started getting popular this was a myth started by independent shops to prevent purchasing the more expensive oil that their customers demanded.
 

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I worked on the Alaskan pipeline when it was being build - if ANY vehicle in the winter didn't have synthetic oil in it, it would not start. Regular motor oil looked like frozen syrup @ - 50 degrees. The Mobile 1 poured right out.

I have a Honda S2000 was my play toy. It has never had a cushy life. I drive it to it's limits constantly. Running the dragon, my RPM's never drop below 6K. At 115,000 miles my rear bearings started to go. As a precaution, I put in a new oil pump, as the other bearings were fine, and the rears are the last to get oil. We stopped for the day after we got the old oil pump out, and put it on the shelf next to the new pump. When the oil had drained off the next morning, it was almost impossible to tell the old from the new. The mechanic said it was the cleanest engine he had ever seen. My S2000 has never had anything but synthetic oil. Is it work it ? You betcha !!!
 

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Synthetic oil is fantastic for extremes either hot or cold - and hard running be it running the Dragon - racing or towing. If your in a mild climate - not running the car hard and fast or spending hours sitting in LA traffic - etc - then normal oil changed at proper intervals will give most people zero issues for the life of the car. For instance my Mother insisted on synthetic in her old nissan. She went through several wheel bearings - the AC compressor was failing - etc - she traded the car in at 100K all that money she spent on synthetic oil for the engine was pretty much a loss given if she had run standard oil in the same car and changed the oil at the proper times - she sill would have seen the same trade value and the cars engine would have been just the same either way.

My old subaru on the other hand - we drove hard - towed trailers with - it suffered from lack of cooling during the CA summers at times during road trips - the synthetic oil we ran did many things - kept the engine 100% - helped keep it a tad cooler on those hot road trips - and helped protect it when it was working hard towing trailers. Yes we had a clear benefit using synthetic we sold it at 180,000 miles with zero engine issues and 100% working car that had just done a 2500 mile road trip with zero problems.


Having said that all subarus as of 2013 models are running engines that were built with synthetic oils in mind and come with synthetic oil in them. The Forrester was the first to get the new FB engine with synthetic back in 2011 if I recall. All other subarus at that time in 2011 were still running the older engines and being sold with standard oil in them.
 
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