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95 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 98 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 99 Legacy Outback EJ25 4EAT "Agent 99", 01 Forester EJ25 4EAT
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, guys. Long nasty winter, got nothing done. Skipped spring, now it's summer and I've gotta jam on a bunch of cars.

Last August we'd just left home to drive down to Flathead Lake (MT), then down to Idaho for the eclipse. Loaded up the '99 with family, bikes, boat, tent - the works - and the engine blew about a mile from home. Had to scramble to switch to the Forester (don't like it as much - too little cargo room), but it could have been a lot worse - like out in the middle of Nowhere, USA.

So now I'm getting to work on the post-mortem. When it died, the two passenger-side cam sprockets exploded and tore the timing cover up, so my starting point was obvious. Now I know that it was the idler sprocket that ate its bearings and caused the failure.

The crank rotates freely, and the two cams minus their sprockets don't seem to be binding. My plan is to dig up replacements for the bad idler and shattered sprockets, then time it up and rotate it to see how it feels. If okay, do a compression test. My (wild, irrational) hope is that maybe the valves and pistons survived the trauma and I won't have to pull this mill right now.

So here's my poll question: What are the odds that there's no internal damage? Or am just stoned and there's no way the answer is anything but "100% certain that pistons and valves crashed"?
 

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1999 30th Anniversary Legacy Outback DOHC 2.5L 4EAT, 2008 Impreza WRX 2.5L 5MT, 2008 Impreza Wagon 2.5L 4EAT
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1,224 Posts
I would say it's very probable that you bent some valves. Your plan is good. If the compression test is bad take off the heads and either replace the bent valves or get a set of heads from a pull and pay yard.
 

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Pull it and put in a '95 EJ22E. They can be had for reasonable prices and they drop right in. I have one in my 98 Outback and it's great. Non interference too.
 

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95 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 98 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 99 Legacy Outback EJ25 4EAT "Agent 99", 01 Forester EJ25 4EAT
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496 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Pull it and put in a '95 EJ22E. They can be had for reasonable prices and they drop right in. I have one in my 98 Outback and it's great. Non interference too.
Tempting - I've got the EJ22 in my '95, but that's with a manual xmission. This car is auto, and I really think it needs the little extra power I should be able to get from the 25.

Update:

Now that I've had a look (put in a couple of scavenged cam sprockets and idler, timed it up, ran a compression test) it looks like I probably bent a valve in one cylinder. But the compression is pathetically low (e.g. 70) in the other three - not a surprise, as this was a used short block I stuck in a few years ago that's always been an oil burner). So I'm thinking a quick overhaul is in order.

I just took a look at Rock, and they have an Enginetech kit for about $170 that appears to have all the pieces - rings, bearings, gaskets. Anyone have any experience with these? Are the head gaskets okay?

Also, they list three different versions: 48mm journals w/ flanged bearing on 3 or 5; 52mm journals with flanged bearing on 3. I only learned recently that these cranks come in the two different sizes. Is there any way to tell from the outside (engine serial # or other indicative stamping) which it is, or is it impossible to know until it's in pieces on the bench?
 

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2002 3.0 VDC Wag + 2018 2.5 Leg Ltd
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Pull it and put in a '95 EJ22E. They can be had for reasonable prices and they drop right in. I have one in my 98 Outback and it's great. Non interference too.
got the idea as a often linked sticky thread right here:

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums...248329-ej22-swap-into-ej25d-dohc-vehicle.html

alternatively there is this guy on LGT mixing EJ22 and EJ25D parts in zona,
and no reason why people with lots of old subarus laying around could not do similar.


http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269360
 

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95 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 98 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 99 Legacy Outback EJ25 4EAT "Agent 99", 01 Forester EJ25 4EAT
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496 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Understood, and I'm not afraid of doing the conversion. However, we're considering selling this one once it's up and running, and it seems to me that it would be more saleable with a rebuilt stock engine than as a "weirdo hybrid".

But back to the question: Can anyone offer an opinion on that Engintech kit?
 

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2014 OBW Premium (Ice Silver Metalic)
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How much could you get for a 19 year old car? I'd go for the EJ22 swap and drive the wheels off it.
 

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95 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 98 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 99 Legacy Outback EJ25 4EAT "Agent 99", 01 Forester EJ25 4EAT
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Discussion Starter #8
How much could you get for a 19 year old car? I'd go for the EJ22 swap and drive the wheels off it.
That's what I'm doing with the '95 EJ22, but it's the wrong answer for this one. You might be surprised.

Two weeks ago our '99 Forester got broadsided by a deer. The insurance company is offering us $5.5K if it's written off.
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
2002 3.0 VDC Wag + 2018 2.5 Leg Ltd
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That's what I'm doing with the '95 EJ22, but it's the wrong answer for this one. You might be surprised.

Two weeks ago our '99 Forester got broadsided by a deer. The insurance company is offering us $5.5K if it's written off.
WOW,

what insurance company is that? :smile2:

how many miles were on it.?

____

a 1999 EJ252/EJ251 is not a good easy drop in to the EJ25D,

but plenty 1999-2002 it is a good drop in for. (2003-2004 got EGR,...so something to tap out).

____

and I can totally see that if you are up in the rockies a resistance to want to go EJ22 on a EJ25D car.
 

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95 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 98 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 99 Legacy Outback EJ25 4EAT "Agent 99", 01 Forester EJ25 4EAT
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Discussion Starter #10
WOW,

what insurance company is that? :smile2:.
Wawanesa.

.
how many miles were on it.?.
About 150K km - PO was a little old Chinese man (father of a good friend of mine). When I got it the transmission was in bad shape, but I put a new one in last summer and it's been running like a dream, so I'm not taking to the prospect of losing it over some banged-up sheet metal. Still, that's serious money.

.
a 1999 EJ252/EJ251 is not a good easy drop in to the EJ25D,

but plenty 1999-2002 it is a good drop in for. (2003-2004 got EGR,...so something to tap out).
____

and I can totally see that if you are up in the rockies a resistance to want to go EJ22 on a EJ25D car.
Exactly. And that's driving through the mountains with four people, a week's worth of camping and sailing gear, and towing a (not terribly heavy, but still...) sailboat. So we need every last horse we can get, and that's why I'm pining to replace this one with an H6 Outback. These things are in really high demand just over the border in Montana, so we're considering selling it there (I've been told by an MT resident that they wouldn't have any trouble registering a Canadian car down there, but I'd want to confirm that (i.e. make sure it'll pass whatever EPA rules apply) before doing so).

But again, back to the questions: Can one tell from the outside whether an EJ25D is a 48mm or 52mm journal engine, and can anyone offer any intel on this Enginetech "re-ring" overhaul kit that Rock has?
 

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$5500 canuck bucks = $4242 USD. (still pretty good).:smile2:
 

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95 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 98 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 99 Legacy Outback EJ25 4EAT "Agent 99", 01 Forester EJ25 4EAT
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Discussion Starter #12

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95 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 98 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 99 Legacy Outback EJ25 4EAT "Agent 99", 01 Forester EJ25 4EAT
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Discussion Starter #13
I think I'm not getting (one of) the answer(s) I'm looking for because this 1999 Phase I vs. Phase II engine stuff is really confusing. I think I'm resigned to not knowing what I have until I get the motor out and open it up.
 

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99 OTBK 5MT, 2014 OTBK 6MT
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Enginetech kit

I just used the Enginetech kit from Rock Auto for my Head gasket replacement and complete teardown and overhaul of both heads, It has alot of really good gaskets, although I sprung for the MLS gaskets from Felpro, the headgaskets in the kit are not MLS. I also did a clutch ,flywheel and pressure plate, Main bearing seal too. All from RockAuto, My 99 has put around 5k and it is running well since the top end O/H
 

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95 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 98 Legacy EJ22 5MT, 99 Legacy Outback EJ25 4EAT "Agent 99", 01 Forester EJ25 4EAT
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Discussion Starter #15
Next question: I'm trying to figure out what the "main journal size mark" stamping on the block means. On this motor, 1-4 are "2" and 5 is "3". But I'm looking at page W6C2 of the TSM (where that stamping is described), and from there through the end of that portion of the manual I can't find anything that translates the 2 and 3 into actual measurements.

Or does it not actually translate to measurements, but instead indicates that #5 is the thrust bearing? If yes, where does the TSM say so?

I'm confused.

(Incidentally, when I unbolted the heads I found the damage seemed to be limited to one #3 valve not quite closing - less than a mm gap. So I think if I'd wanted to, I probably could have started it up after the retiming.)
 
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