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Sharing the latest JD Power APEAL study because after reading this thread of gripes, to me it would be logical just to sell something if issues bother a person that much.

In the JD Power APEAL study, they do not measure quality or tech experience, but instead "measuring owners' emotional attachment and level of excitement with their new vehicle." Both of my 2020 vehicles that I own, XC40 and Defender, are on the JD Power APEAL 2021 list. Not surprised at all. I was surprised that based on the "passionate" following the Outback has on this site, that all of Subaru consistently ranks below average each year for this study between 2017 - 2021.

Which leads me to wonder, if there is little emotional attachment and lack of excitement for a material object, why continue to suffer and complain? It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

2021 U.S. Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study | J.D. Power (jdpower.com)
 

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Sharing the latest JD Power APEAL study because after reading this thread of gripes, to me it would be logical just to sell something if issues bother a person that much.

In the JD Power APEAL study, they do not measure quality or tech experience, but instead "measuring owners' emotional attachment and level of excitement with their new vehicle." Both of my 2020 vehicles that I own, XC40 and Defender, are on the JD Power APEAL 2021 list. Not surprised at all. I was surprised that based on the "passionate" following the Outback has on this site, that all of Subaru consistently ranks below average each year for this study between 2017 - 2021.

Which leads me to wonder, if there is little emotional attachment and lack of excitement for a material object, why continue to suffer and complain? It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

2021 U.S. Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study | J.D. Power (jdpower.com)
And yet....

Subaru sales continue to steadily climb year after year....? Fascinating. Must be that passionate following.

I looked over the 'survey'.... typical J.D. Power meaningless fluff (BS), especially when you look at the higher rated vehicles.

I'd use the 'candle' to set this survey on fire, and toss it into the trash where it belongs.
 

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And yet....

Subaru sales continue to steadily climb year after year....? Fascinating. Must be that passionate following.
Actually, sales for the Outback have retracted since the Gen 6. The year over year decrease for Outback is 15.3% Subaru Outback Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com). Conversely, competitor products have sold more and those buyers actually held onto them. My focus of the numbers is comparing the Outback to the CRV, but even the XC40 numbers which are here with a 35% year over year increase; Volvo XC40 Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com). Ascent should have been named the Descent with a decline of 17.49% YoY decline; Subaru Ascent Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com)

I posted this in another thread here, but worth repeating based on your response claiming "sales continue to steadily climb year after year." There is data that shows people are offloading them after purchase. Could it be the touchscreen climate control or something else? My reason that I unloaded mine after 5 months was due to the infotainment along with other reasons.

Here is the Car Guru link I used to search; Used 2020 Subaru Outback for Sale in Trenton, NJ - CarGurus The options "used" and "cpo" have to be selected otherwise it shows all available Outbacks. When searching for 2020 - 2022 used Outbacks nationally, it lists 1671 (as of 08/12/2021) available with a cluster of examples with 3000 - 5000 miles regardless of years.

Someone had suggested to compare the used Outback numbers against same period used CRV vehicles. Here is the link for that; Used 2020 Honda CR-V for Sale in Trenton, NJ - CarGurus. As of 08/12/2021, coming up with 1322 examples nationally of 2020 and 2021 CRVs. Again, "used" and "cpo" have to be selected so it removes "new" from the count.

Comparing the mileage on the used Outbacks, there seems to be a larger amount of vehicles with 3000-5000 miles regardless of year. The same is not true for the CRV using those parameters. In other words, the CRV sells more than double than the Outback, but there are less available in the used market. Additionally, CRV sales are at record highs but the Outback is on track to sell less than 2019 aka previous generation.

Focusing on calculating the denominator, the US sales;
For the CRV the numbers sold were 333,502 for 2020, 244,729 so far for 2021, and 384,168 in 2019. For July 2021, there were 31,530 sold tracking for 402,379 for full year.

For the Outback the numbers sold were 153,290 for 2020, 101,677 so far for 2021, and 181,178 in 2019. For July 2021, there were 14,058 sold tracking for 171,967 for full year.

Summary: Even though Gen 6 Outbacks sold less than half of CRVs for the same time period, they represent a larger available used vehicles. Rental fleets selling inventory or dealer's liquidating demo units cannot be the only reason for this proportionally higher available used inventory.

Source: Honda CR-V Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com) and Subaru Outback Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com)
 

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Although initially impressed with 11" screen, the more I used it the more annoying it became. Having HVAC and heated seat controls only accessible via touchscreen was annoying. I often change between recirculation and outside air, and having to dig into touch screen to do this was a PITA after a while. ASS disable being 2-3 touches way was annoying.
Two Outbacks a 2012 that was flawless, and a 2018 that has clocked more nights in the dealer than any other car model I've ever owned .. and I've owned just about everything. And the biggest problem was the infotainment center going out then requireing WEEKS for replacement. Now imagine packing even more functionality into that single less than reliable unit. I brought this up to a sales guy at Subaru and he kind of nodded, yeah .. that's going to be an issue. I'm 35 years in computer engineering and discovered: digital ain't the write UI for everything. sometimes good old analog dials work a lot better.
 

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Coming from my 2020 4 Runner TRD Pro which I never wanted to sell, but my payment was just too high. I felt like the Wilderness was a good compromise which it is in many ways. Better mpg although not much better around town since I have to use paddle shifters because the CVT shifts so weirdly which I dislike. It was very good off road in Colorado and on the highway. The suspension is very nice. Handles everything well. All the dings and alarms are annoying. Turning things off through the infotainment center makes things more difficult than they need to be which is by design I'm sure. The "normal" chirp when shifting into drive for first time although if I start car 3-5 minutes before entering it seems better. A squeal when backing up intermittently. Annoying a/c controls. I miss buttons. I think the thing that annoys me the most is the transmission. I think it sucks actually and ruins the driving experience for me. I think the Wilderness could be a good to great car for me, but that tranny ruins it for me most of the time.
 

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Actually, sales for the Outback have retracted since the Gen 6. The year over year decrease for Outback is 15.3% Subaru Outback Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com). Conversely, competitor products have sold more and those buyers actually held onto them. My focus of the numbers is comparing the Outback to the CRV, but even the XC40 numbers which are here with a 35% year over year increase; Volvo XC40 Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com). Ascent should have been named the Descent with a decline of 17.49% YoY decline; Subaru Ascent Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com)

I posted this in another thread here, but worth repeating based on your response claiming "sales continue to steadily climb year after year." There is data that shows people are offloading them after purchase. Could it be the touchscreen climate control or something else? My reason that I unloaded mine after 5 months was due to the infotainment along with other reasons.

Here is the Car Guru link I used to search; Used 2020 Subaru Outback for Sale in Trenton, NJ - CarGurus The options "used" and "cpo" have to be selected otherwise it shows all available Outbacks. When searching for 2020 - 2022 used Outbacks nationally, it lists 1671 (as of 08/12/2021) available with a cluster of examples with 3000 - 5000 miles regardless of years.

Someone had suggested to compare the used Outback numbers against same period used CRV vehicles. Here is the link for that; Used 2020 Honda CR-V for Sale in Trenton, NJ - CarGurus. As of 08/12/2021, coming up with 1322 examples nationally of 2020 and 2021 CRVs. Again, "used" and "cpo" have to be selected so it removes "new" from the count.

Comparing the mileage on the used Outbacks, there seems to be a larger amount of vehicles with 3000-5000 miles regardless of year. The same is not true for the CRV using those parameters. In other words, the CRV sells more than double than the Outback, but there are less available in the used market. Additionally, CRV sales are at record highs but the Outback is on track to sell less than 2019 aka previous generation.

Focusing on calculating the denominator, the US sales;
For the CRV the numbers sold were 333,502 for 2020, 244,729 so far for 2021, and 384,168 in 2019. For July 2021, there were 31,530 sold tracking for 402,379 for full year.

For the Outback the numbers sold were 153,290 for 2020, 101,677 so far for 2021, and 181,178 in 2019. For July 2021, there were 14,058 sold tracking for 171,967 for full year.

Summary: Even though Gen 6 Outbacks sold less than half of CRVs for the same time period, they represent a larger available used vehicles. Rental fleets selling inventory or dealer's liquidating demo units cannot be the only reason for this proportionally higher available used inventory.

Source: Honda CR-V Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com) and Subaru Outback Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com)
The CRV is Honda's best product for the money imo. My wife has a 20 and for 30k loaded it is pretty nice. The 1.5 dit and /CVT is a better more refined powertrain that the Subaru and handling with good tires(Upgraded Defenders on hers) is better also.Infotainment is dated but simple. Outback/Legacy is a bit quieter and nobody beats Subaru in overall safety. Also, the CRV is in it's last year and the new model is due out next spring
 

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The CRV is Honda's best product for the money imo. My wife has a 20 and for 30k loaded it is pretty nice. The 1.5 dit and /CVT is a better more refined powertrain that the Subaru and handling with good tires(Upgraded Defenders on hers) is better also.Infotainment is dated but simple. Outback/Legacy is a bit quieter and nobody beats Subaru in overall safety. Also, the CRV is in it's last year and the new model is due out next spring
My parents have a CRV and even though I wouldn't buy one, it definitely shifts better than my Wilderness.
 

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Hate to burst your bubble but the 22 CRV will be identical to the 21 model. Don't expect changes until the 23 MY.
 

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Coming from my 2020 4 Runner TRD Pro which I never wanted to sell, but my payment was just too high. I felt like the Wilderness was a good compromise which it is in many ways. Better mpg although not much better around town since I have to use paddle shifters because the CVT shifts so weirdly which I dislike. It was very good off road in Colorado and on the highway. The suspension is very nice. Handles everything well. All the dings and alarms are annoying. Turning things off through the infotainment center makes things more difficult than they need to be which is by design I'm sure. The "normal" chirp when shifting into drive for first time although if I start car 3-5 minutes before entering it seems better. A squeal when backing up intermittently. Annoying a/c controls. I miss buttons. I think the thing that annoys me the most is the transmission. I think it sucks actually and ruins the driving experience for me. I think the Wilderness could be a good to great car for me, but that tranny ruins it for me most of the time.
I just had a 2021 Tacoma TRD rental and had I driven that before the 2020 Outback would have definitely gone with the pickup and kept it. It did everything I expected it to with the powertrain, was rugged interior, and could even dial a phone number while moving from the infotainment.
 

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I just had a 2021 Tacoma TRD rental and had I driven that before the 2020 Outback would have definitely gone with the pickup and kept it. It did everything I expected it to with the powertrain, was rugged interior, and could even dial a phone number while moving from the infotainment.
I definitely made the correct financial decision selling the 4R. The Outback might not have been the right car I don’t think.
 

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I definitely made the correct financial decision selling the 4R. The Outback might not have been the right car I don’t think.
I'm a week away from unloading a TRD Pro Tacoma for an OBW. Previous vehicle was T4R Trail Premium. While the T4R severely lacked in creature comforts, the fit and finish were unmatched compared to the Tacoma. And I thought this TRDP Tacoma would be my last vehicle for a while, but the trans and JBL sound system are unbearable. Hoping the OBW keeps me entertained long enough for the Tacoma to resolve those 2 (kinda significant) issues.

And this wouldn't even be a consideration if the Tacoma trade-in wasn't a couple grand more than what I paid for it. This will be my 2nd Outback.
 

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I'm a week away from unloading a TRD Pro Tacoma for an OBW. Previous vehicle was T4R Trail Premium. While the T4R severely lacked in creature comforts, the fit and finish were unmatched compared to the Tacoma. And I thought this TRDP Tacoma would be my last vehicle for a while, but the trans and JBL sound system are unbearable. Hoping the OBW keeps me entertained long enough for the Tacoma to resolve those 2 (kinda significant) issues.

And this wouldn't even be a consideration if the Tacoma trade-in wasn't a couple grand more than what I paid for it. This will be my 2nd Outback.
The 4R is a superior vehicle in almost every way.
 

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Subarus are popular, but are their buyers passionate? Perhaps most (not the WRX people) Subaru buyers are pragmatic and buy more on function than emotion.

For example my wife originally wanted a T4R for it's aggressive look, hauling/towing and off-road capability and it's better at all those things as I understand it.

But when considering what roles we needed the vehicle to play it was obvious that most of the operating areas would NOT be where the T4R excels.

So we chose the OBW. That wasn't out of passion, it was a logical choice. If I were part of the survey group I would probably contribute to the below average score.

My wife is also thinking Audi TT Roadster for the "fun" vehicle. That is an emotional choice and had better rank higher!
 

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Actually, sales for the Outback have retracted since the Gen 6. The year over year decrease for Outback is 15.3% Subaru Outback Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com). Conversely, competitor products have sold more and those buyers actually held onto them. My focus of the numbers is comparing the Outback to the CRV, but even the XC40 numbers which are here with a 35% year over year increase; Volvo XC40 Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com). Ascent should have been named the Descent with a decline of 17.49% YoY decline; Subaru Ascent Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com)

I posted this in another thread here, but worth repeating based on your response claiming "sales continue to steadily climb year after year." There is data that shows people are offloading them after purchase. Could it be the touchscreen climate control or something else? My reason that I unloaded mine after 5 months was due to the infotainment along with other reasons.

Here is the Car Guru link I used to search; Used 2020 Subaru Outback for Sale in Trenton, NJ - CarGurus The options "used" and "cpo" have to be selected otherwise it shows all available Outbacks. When searching for 2020 - 2022 used Outbacks nationally, it lists 1671 (as of 08/12/2021) available with a cluster of examples with 3000 - 5000 miles regardless of years.

Someone had suggested to compare the used Outback numbers against same period used CRV vehicles. Here is the link for that; Used 2020 Honda CR-V for Sale in Trenton, NJ - CarGurus. As of 08/12/2021, coming up with 1322 examples nationally of 2020 and 2021 CRVs. Again, "used" and "cpo" have to be selected so it removes "new" from the count.

Comparing the mileage on the used Outbacks, there seems to be a larger amount of vehicles with 3000-5000 miles regardless of year. The same is not true for the CRV using those parameters. In other words, the CRV sells more than double than the Outback, but there are less available in the used market. Additionally, CRV sales are at record highs but the Outback is on track to sell less than 2019 aka previous generation.

Focusing on calculating the denominator, the US sales;
For the CRV the numbers sold were 333,502 for 2020, 244,729 so far for 2021, and 384,168 in 2019. For July 2021, there were 31,530 sold tracking for 402,379 for full year.

For the Outback the numbers sold were 153,290 for 2020, 101,677 so far for 2021, and 181,178 in 2019. For July 2021, there were 14,058 sold tracking for 171,967 for full year.

Summary: Even though Gen 6 Outbacks sold less than half of CRVs for the same time period, they represent a larger available used vehicles. Rental fleets selling inventory or dealer's liquidating demo units cannot be the only reason for this proportionally higher available used inventory.

Source: Honda CR-V Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com) and Subaru Outback Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com)
For the record..... reading comprehension check here.....

I stated "Subaru sales continue to steadily climb year after year....?".

And you focused your long diatribe completely on the Outback.

And so it goes.
 

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Subarus are popular, but are their buyers passionate? Perhaps most (not the WRX people) Subaru buyers are pragmatic and buy more on function than emotion.

For example my wife originally wanted a T4R for it's aggressive look, hauling/towing and off-road capability and it's better at all those things as I understand it.

But when considering what roles we needed the vehicle to play it was obvious that most of the operating areas would NOT be where the T4R excels.

So we chose the OBW. That wasn't out of passion, it was a logical choice. If I were part of the survey group I would probably contribute to the below average score.

My wife is also thinking Audi TT Roadster for the "fun" vehicle. That is an emotional choice and had better rank higher!
Yeah I bought the Wilderness because of practicality and saving money from what I was spending. It’s a fun car coming from the 4R. I love how it rides on and off road, but that’s where the positives end for me. As far as looks I would choose a 4R from every year over an Outback. The Wilderness is the only package I think looks half way decent. It’s saving me money and that’s the most important. I won’t keep this car more than a year at most and might be less.
 

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@njoutbacknj you're an intelligent, articulate, and reasonable person, but I still don't understand why after having gotten rid of your Outback (which I applaud people who make decisions/choices instead of just whining) you continue to come here and whine about an Outback you no longer have. Stranger still, it's not just low effort comments - you find information and present it in a nicely formatted way.

While it's possible for a disgruntled former owner to have valuable contributions to the forum, e.g. troubleshooting advice, just coming here to say "get rid of your outback like I did" wears thin and it's been - a year? You seem to want to cheer on negativity.

Please don't take this personally - you're a likeable person and do big hearted things in your life that make a positive impact on people and pets. This isn't an attack on you - it just seems like something is preventing you from just moving on from your bad Subaru experience.

My 1996 Impala SS had a body mounted 1/2" off from the frame but I wouldn't go to their forums to complain about it - that car is history to me. My Subaru SVX blew a transmission and I got rid of it, but I don't go to SVX forums to keep recounting the tale - it's behind me. My MR2 turbo snap spun but I don't go to MR2 forums to keep bringing up the issue.

The outback isn't the right car for everyone, or Subaru in general. Every brand has issues. It's not as if we need you to tell us this - it's not a special insight or really a valuable contribution and the baffling thing is I can't see what benefit it has to you.
 

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I hope people don't think I'm complaining about my Subaru. I just liked my 4R way better except when I drove to CO recently and I loved the Outback. If it weren't for all the CVT quirks and infotainment and stupid dings, I think I could really like this car. It has grown on me over time, but if I could go back to a 4R financially I would. Since I can't I will just try to enjoy the OBW for what it is.
 

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As an Outback owner who is disappointed with the car not meeting expectations it's valuable information for those who might consider a Subaru in the future. Cobb tunes have improved the transmission behavior for Ascent owners and they're working on bringing their programming to the Outback XT.
 
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