Let me think, the last Toyota I had was a 83 Tercel 2 door hatch manual transmission. Loved that car even with the vinyl floors. 300-500k no problem!I agree the Outback drives better than the 4R, but some of us love simplicity, predictability and reliability. My Wilderness are definitely not the first two and I won't ever find out if its reliable long term. The Outback is just annoying with all its tech, CVT and 'safety" features. The outback fits my daily lifestyle. I just like the 4R better than anything I've ever owned.