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'14 Subi OBW, '18 Subi Forester
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They don't broadcast a signal until they are rotating supposedly to save battery.. so I think they would appear dormant.

Sienna.. Turn on car.. push and hold button tpms .. wait a bit.. done.. i think..

Tx for your feedback.
It depends on the sensor. It's a new frontier, and there are limited standards for operation. Once they are woken up the first time (by rotation, a magnet, etc.), I believe many remain on. One guy over on the Toyota board actually placed 4 sensors in a home-made pressure bomb and kept it under his front seat to keep his light off!

Sienna: Hold the button until you see 3 flashes in 6 seconds. System becomes active within 60 minutes of the reset.

You are welcome!
 

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In my old Grand Prix, ABS made stopping worse on anything but perfectly dry pavement! It was a hazardous add on.

Also what state do you live in that requires TPMS to be functional? Here in PA it is not required, and we have a fairly stringent annual safety inspection.
Unfortunately, the Old GM did many things half-assed, and their earlier ABS implementation was one of them. There was a lot of criticism about the extremely low rep rate (line pressure pulse frequency & feedback from the wheel speed sensor) that could cause exactly what you described. Even the best systems can be fooled on certain loose surface situations, but overall, it is a great safety feature.

According to Tire Rack, they only know of 5 states that currently include inspection of TPMS. In West Virginia, Vermont, Rhode Island & Hawaii it needs to be functioning to pass. In NY it is inspected but is not grounds for failure. I guess you will receive a warning. That was based on a survey of 18 states. They have no data on the other 32, so there could be more.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
and i'm vermont.. so there u go..

I asked a friend of our about TPMS and his response was TMPS=POS. The letter of the inspection law says it has to be functional if the car was equipped with it. Now.. asked if he will fail a car for the light on? ... no comment. I tried to find it on the vermont dmv site.. found mention of "checking TMPS".. but no details in the full blow document I could find.

I'll have it on both sets of tires.. the car won't know the difference.... and hopefully it will give me many years of early warnings or just lazy not checking tires often enough warnings..

I'm an optimist in this case.. plus. have to justify spending $140 to get the ez-sensors ( well.. really $190 but i got the amazon CC just to save $50 instantly.. )
 

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2012 Indigo Pearl Outback, with factory-installed Flux Capacitor
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I'm looking at this topic myself. I have a sweet, No-Mar tire changer. I'm intrigued by TPMS.

Subaru uses Schrader sensors. The EZ series is clonable AND has Schrader quality. There are a lot of 'black boxes' that will read the current sensor ID. And then another 'black box' can reprogram the ECU with the sensor IDs and their position. Which brings me to my point...

How many of you rotate your tires only to see the light come on? Everything I read claims the ECU does NOT have auto learn mode, like many domestic cars. Instead, you must reprogram the ECU after rotating tires.

But I didn't and I got no mystery light.

I like the Schrader line of EZ-sensors. Their many mounting positions, ability to cover all the major frequencies, etc just make them a nice way to stock these in the shop w/o high cost.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Schrader EZSensor 33000 worked for me

The bartec 400 that costco has read my factory sensor ids.. and programmed the new schrader ezsensors I bought.. I mounted the tires myself at home after they put on rims / balanced.. The car knows no difference. The ECU has 4 ids and it thinks it knows where they are but really could care less as I understand it. If any throws a low pressure signal.. the outback will just light up and say something is up.. If you read the data from the ECU then it would tell you a specific id but no telling where I have that one installed. Figure at that point.. checking 4 tires is the least I can do.

I can rotate.. swap tires.. whatever and no ones the wiser.

Now.. if the dash displayed the 4 pressures or told you which went south.. then it would be nice for the tires to be at the prescribed locations..
 

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2012 Indigo Pearl Outback, with factory-installed Flux Capacitor
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The bartec 400 that costco has read my factory sensor ids.. and programmed the new schrader ezsensors I bought.. I mounted the tires myself at home after they put on rims / balanced.. The car knows no difference. The ECU has 4 ids and it thinks it knows where they are but really could care less as I understand it. If any throws a low pressure signal.. the outback will just light up and say something is up.. If you read the data from the ECU then it would tell you a specific id but no telling where I have that one installed. Figure at that point.. checking 4 tires is the least I can do.

I can rotate.. swap tires.. whatever and no ones the wiser.

Now.. if the dash displayed the 4 pressures or told you which went south.. then it would be nice for the tires to be at the prescribed locations..
I've got information coming. I want to have my cake and eat it too. I want the ECU happy as a lark AND have on onboard display that can show me positions and tire pressures.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I did actually call Schrader to see if any of their display units will pick up the signals from the 33000 sensors as I saw on amazon a standalone 4 sensors + display for $140 or less that was intriguing.. The guy I talked to said the 33000s don't send out their temp/pressure but only send out some signal if they fall below the preset value.. The ECU will know which sensor threw the code.. but will only assume it knows where in my case.

If these sensors sent out a real signal ever x minutes or seconds with temp / pres .. I would love to have a display to pick it up.. I wonder in the Limited if the display includes TMPS stuff like some other cars..

hijacking thread : The "infotainment" aspect of the 13 ob is a little weak I must say.. I am tempted to swap out the radio as I have not been able to adjust mine to sound right.. spacially odd.. Just happened to ride in a prius of all things and the stereo and interface is pretty good.. Makes me more motiviated to think about some swap (seen the Taiguy thread and read many times to prime myself up for the job )
 

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hijacking thread : The "infotainment" aspect of the 13 ob is a little weak I must say.. I am tempted to swap out the radio as I have not been able to adjust mine to sound right.. spacially odd.. Just happened to ride in a prius of all things and the stereo and interface is pretty good.. Makes me more motiviated to think about some swap (seen the Taiguy thread and read many times to prime myself up for the job )
You can't hijack your own thread, that's like hijacking your own car. :p

What radio you have in mind?
 

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The guy I talked to said the 33000s don't send out their temp/pressure but only send out some signal if they fall below the preset value.. The ECU will know which sensor threw the code.. but will only assume it knows where in my case.
And of course that makes absolutely no sense, as the on-board TPMS computer will throw a code if it does not receive periodic communications will all registered sensors.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
what sensors send

And of course that makes absolutely no sense, as the on-board TPMS computer will throw a code if it does not receive periodic communications will all registered sensors.
Yes.. but i was told they just send a go / no go signal.. not the actual pressure/temp.. Would not surprise me if the guy that told me that was wrong..

So hard to find technical truths..


As to radio.. I don't know honestly...
 

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But think about that answer for a second. It's not the sensor that makes the determination as to whether the tire is ok. It's the tpms computer that compares the reported value to the 75% of nominal value.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
But think about that answer for a second. It's not the sensor that makes the determination as to whether the tire is ok. It's the tpms computer that compares the reported value to the 75% of nominal value.
It was schrader on the phone that told me this load. They said when the sensor is programmed, it knows the car (true ) and then knows what nominal value to enforce ( bartec 400 did not have 2013 so I hope 2012 has the same nominal if this is so ) .

I guess i need to find someone that is 100% certain how the tpms system in this car really works to establish the truth. Inquiring minds want to know.

I too found it odd that the sensor would not just broadcast the facts and let the computer do the rest. Would surely make more sense.. It would also then mean some sort of display unit could pick up these signals and display them..
 

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I cannot tell you that all TPMS systems work the same, but here is the system description from the Toyota manual for my Sienna:

Tire Pressure Warning Valve and Transmitter: Detects the air pressure and internal temperature of the tire and transmits the measured value and the ID code to the tire pressure warning antenna
and receiver.

Tire Pressure Warning Antenna and Receiver: Receives the tire pressure warning valve and transmitter signal and transmits this data to the tire pressure warning ECU.

Tire Pressure Warning ECU: Receives the data from the tire pressure warning antenna and receiver and monitors the tire air pressure. When the tire pressure warning ECU detects a drop in the tire air pressure or a system malfunction, it outputs the respective signal to the combination meter.

Considering that the same Schrader clone sensor is used in both applications, I cannot imagine the operation is drastically different.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
unless when the sensor is programmed , where the programming tool knows the car it is going in, if it tells it how to behave. It would sure make more sense to me that it just sends out its signal and leaves it to the more than capable car computer to decipher if there is a condition that warrants the light to come on.

Story: I rented a car over the weekend and on my trip back , the TMPS light was on. I checked the pressures and all were low.. 30 vs a 35 .. not 25% low but I did think the mileage we got on the way to our destination was a little low.. Sure enough.. putting in the required amount on all tires (all 4 were low ).. my mileage improved quite a bit. Never thought I had to check the pressures on a rental car but I will from now on.
 

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Had that happen in North Dallas with a Hertz car I picked up at DFW a few years back. Northern Texas is one of those weather battleground areas where it can be 85' F today and 20' F tomorrow.
 

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So why did the govt mandate TPMS? If you are a 'car guy', you probably don't need it except in the rare emergency situation as happened to my wife. But what about the rest of the general population?

I was visiting my wife's family, and I always am the one getting asked questions like "is it OK that my ATF is jet black with chunks?" This time it was "why is the yellow tire light on?" My first question: "When was the last time you checked your tires?" Answer: "The summer, I think. Oh yes, sometime after our trip to Tenn (late July....). But they don't look low, so I'm sure that's not the problem...."

Sure enough, around 27 psi (door jam calls for 35 psi). I gave her my digital gauge to keep, and we got her aired up to 37 for good measure.

I'd say without the light she'd likely be driving on them that way until her next oil change in February.
 

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I did see a listing of tools that could be used with the Schrader sensors, but don't seem to be able to find it now. I don't remember seeing Orange listed, however. It was the big shop tool suppliers, but given the 'universal' nature they advertise, I wouldn't be surprised if the Orange could do it.

I did find this notation in the Shrader apps notes:

WARNING: Storing of duplicate set of sensors that are either not pressurized or below vehicle placard pressure, may cause the Low Pressure Light (TPMS Tell Tale) to come on. Remove all un-pressurized sensors from the area.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
OK Quick question:
Anyone know if I can program the "Schrader EZ-Sensors $48 each" (315 mhz) with my Orange electronics programing tool??? I believe I have the OPSS II tool
Orange Electronic Co., Ltd. - TPMS(Tire Pressure Monitoring System)

If so I would LOVE IT!
thanks
Jonathan
page 8 of this pdf
http://http://www.ez-sensor.com/pdf/ez-sensor-application-coverage.pdf

shows tools that can program it. Whether its a complete list is the question.. Only trying it might answer.. or contact Schrader I would think
 

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Thanks, I am just going to order one and see if it works.. If not I'll resell it or return it..
I can only imagine it will work. Anyone know if the orange sensors I have already programmed can be reprogrammed?
Thanks
Jonathan
 
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