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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok guys,

After pontificating ad nauseum here on the forum about how I personally found the 2012's suspension totally intolerable (and all my schemes to try to fix it), I gave up today.

Traded the 2012 for a beautiful 2013 with SAP. I must say that Subaru really got it right with this car. The suspension is what it should have been from day one. The car feels so stable at all speeds and no more horrible body roll or "jiggle" going around bumpy corners at low speed. Despite adding bigger front and rear sway bars on my 2012 I still found it to be way too soft and unstable for my taste.

I made the right choice for me and I am excited that this OB has everything addressed or fixed that I didn't like about my 2012 (Suspension, push button start, lack of memory seats, annoying mpg gauge)

Sorry to everyone who was waiting for my write up on how to swap out the 2012 suspension for the 2013. Hopefully at least getting the thread up with all the needed part numbers and the cost to make to conversion helps someone. I guess I gave up but I got a great deal on the car and it's beautiful!

Had a great conversation with the dealership owner who has been selling Subarus for almost 30 years. He believes that in 2014 the SAP will become the Limited trim since Subaru has found they can't make enough SAPs to keep up with demand. He said in the last 3 years he can't sell a base car or a premium to save his life and Subaru is now recognizing the demand for better roadgoing engineering and fit/finish is critical to their continued success.

Love the new SAP!
 

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2005 3.0 R n totaled
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How much money did you lose by trading 1 year old car? I went through the similar situation, when I ditched 2010 VW Tdi for 2010 Forester XT few years back....I lost appx $ 2000.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I lost a little bit, about $2000. The dealer made me a smokin' deal and gave me a great deal on my 2012 trade. I paid nothing out of pocket (I had traded and put $$ down on the 2012) and my monthly payment is actually lower than it was on my 2012.
 

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2013 OB 3.6R SAP
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Congrats, man. With a respectful nod to the third gen XT owners, I really think the 3.6R SAP is the best OB ever made. It really does deliver the goods - I feel great every time I drive it.

And now I always reach for the push-button start in my RX-8.
 

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Off topic but I just sold my '13 WRX to CarMax. I had it 6 months and lost exactly $1k from my purchase price new. Subaru's hold their value extremely well. Op glad to hear you finally got what you wanted. It pains me Subaru doesn't give a crap about us loyal buyers (I'm on my 3rd new one) What I mean is us 2010-2012 owners got sold crappy suspension, I trusted the brand based on previous ownership and solid recommendation that they got my car right from the beginning.

Let's not forget Subaru should have learned their lesson on screwing over their loyal buyers when they introduced the dumbed down WRX in 2008 then made it right in 2011+. Not sure I will be buying another or not despite liking the cars overall, I just feel taken advantage of and with two young kids 19 months & 4 years I'm not in a position financially at this point in my life to upgrade into the car they got RIGHT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
They did the same thing with the OB. The last Gen3 were beautiful cars with turn signal mirrors and many SAP like features. Then came the Gen4 completely dummed down in 2010 and it took them until 2013 to get it back up to speed. Wonder if they'll do the same thing with the Gen5 OB.
 

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They did the same thing with the OB. The last Gen3 were beautiful cars with turn signal mirrors and many SAP like features. Then came the Gen4 completely dummed down in 2010 and it took them until 2013 to get it back up to speed. Wonder if they'll do the same thing with the Gen5 OB.
I sort of feel like the new/ upcoming Forester is on the same path as the 2010 Outback. The numbers look good on paper and its got some descent tech, but some of the design cues especially in the front look goofy in my opinion. They will probably give it a handsome update like they did for the Outback at some point. So far the only "all new" design I feel Subaru hit out of the park is the XV Crosstrek, but they choked it up with an anemic powerplant.
 

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2013 Subaru Outback limited 3.6R
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Nice congrats.
Give us updates at some benchmark mileage comparison.
For my car only having 7K on it, I feel that the suspension has worn in more than I'd like, especially when braking- front end dip. I know the pads are in good shape and all and I remember when I first got it, braking was so sensitive I had to get used to it. Now the braking feels sluggish even in comparison to my 02 Tacoma, though it does have aftermarket parts.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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2013 Legacy Lim CVT Car: 2011 OB Prem 6MT Car: 2006 Miata GT 6MT mc: 2003 Honda GL1800A * Reunite Gondwanaland *
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Ok guys,

He said in the last 3 years he can't sell a base car or a premium to save his life ...
He was talking about the H6 cars ...right? 90%+ of those are Limiteds.

However, around here, the 3.6Rs make up less than 10% of dealer
inventories -- and the 2.5i Premiums are by far the most popular.
They account for about half of all OB sales -- H4 and H6 combined.

A quick scan of the Front Range (Boulder to Cheyenne) inventories
shows a similar distribution: 90%-ish 2.5i -- with 2.5i Premiums
leading the pack.

Looby
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Nice congrats.
Give us updates at some benchmark mileage comparison.
For my car only having 7K on it, I feel that the suspension has worn in more than I'd like, especially when braking- front end dip. I know the pads are in good shape and all and I remember when I first got it, braking was so sensitive I had to get used to it. Now the braking feels sluggish even in comparison to my 02 Tacoma, though it does have aftermarket parts.


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Thanks for the congrats.

I did notice alot of suspension and brake "wear in" too on my 2012. It went from barely tolerable on the suspension to very loose by 10k. Brakes were less noticeable but did fade a little. Hopefully will not be as bad on the 13.
 

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2010 outback. base 2.5
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While there are some nice suspension changes with the 13 this is the same car in and out as a 10 so to think this is going to be a apples and oranges change is wrong. I was told 2015 for the new 5th gen OB/Legacy and WRX/STI. I think you will see a big change dynamically while keeping the same basic shape as the 4th gen along with a better quality interior and more upgraded tech.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
While there are some nice suspension changes with the 13 this is the same car in and out as a 10 so to think this is going to be a apples and oranges change is wrong. I was told 2015 for the new 5th gen OB/Legacy and WRX/STI. I think you will see a big change dynamically while keeping the same basic shape as the 4th gen along with a better quality interior and more upgraded tech.
Yes and no, the 2013 was a mid-cycle refresh but there were some major changes such as a reinforced rear subframe and chassis changes such as reinforced front strut towers and rear driveshaft carrier supports. A little more involved than the typical mid cycle update on most cars....more than just lipstick on a pig, they really made the car alot better aside from looks alone.

For Gen5 I think we will see a Turbo version of the 2.0L that is currently in the BRZ, among other things. I think the 3.6R might go away and be replaced with perhaps a 2.5L turbo. I am still pretty unsure if Subaru wants to bring diesel to the USA. There are alot of costs for them to integrate diesel into their service centers (training mechanics, etc) and while diesel has a cult following in the USA most people will not buy one.

I wonder if Subaru will get rid of the Tribeca and make the Outback the new "large" Subaru, with Forester taking up the mid-sized spot. I do think you will continue to see more luxury features and tighter suspension and drivelines as these things have kept Toyota and Honda buyers away from Subaru until recently.
 

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2010 outback. base 2.5
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Chassis renforcement was most likely very minimal along with the rear subframe. Small overlap crash test was sucuccesful due to faster side airbag deployment( after 8/12) not any kind of structural enhancements. Any substantial structural changes will most likely come in 15 and I agree the 3.6 is history for the next OB look for a little bigger application in the turbo 4/CVT than the new Forester. I also heard of a new 3 row seat application in the future.Do not know if that will be a Mini- Van or a Highlander version.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Chassis renforcement was most likely very minimal along with the rear subframe. Small overlap crash test was sucuccesful due to faster side airbag deployment( after 8/12) not any kind of structural enhancements. Any substantial structural changes will most likely come in 15 and I agree the 3.6 is history for the next OB look for a little bigger application in the turbo 4/CVT than the new Forester. I also heard of a new 3 row seat application in the future.Do not know if that will be a Mini- Van or a Highlander version.
Well what I do know is that for 2013 the front strut towers were strengthened by increasing the guage of steel. Most of the rear end structural improvements were in the subframe, so technically not on the chassis proper. I do know they improved the stiffness of the rubber bushings that mount the subframe to the chassis so that there is less flex between the two. I also read there was some improved strength on the driveshaft carrier(s) to reduce the vibration there. (My 2012 had obvious rear end vibration, especially when accelerating from a stop while turning).

To my knowledge the chassis reinforcements were not intended to improve crash tests. They were aimed at reducing flex at suspension pickup points to support the stiffened shocks and springs and reducing driveline vibration.

I would anticipate we will see a totally new unibody/chassis for 2015....so by then this conversation will be moot. Unless you have more info on the 2015/16 updates.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Something else interesting on the 2013....it's a lot better in snow and ice. Took it out today in the 6-8" of snow we just got. In my neighborhood I was trying to break the rear end loose (my 8 year old loves it) and it was difficult to do so. In my 2012 it was very easy to fish-tail by just flicking the steering left/right. Maybe less fun but definitely safer.
 

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Interesting observation. I'm curious on why a 13 would be better in snow than a 10-12. Anybody else notice this? Perhaps they tweaked the TC software for 13
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Here's another interesting finding. I was reinstalling my Tanabe front strut top bar today. I removed it from the 2012 without loosening the cross bar (so it has the orientation preserved).

It appears the 2013's front strut towers are about 0.25" closer together and are angled inwards significantly more than the 2012's.

This is interesting since I have heard the alignment settings are the same 2012/2013. This finding would suggest there is more negative camber in the front on the 2013.
 

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2013 OB 3.6R SAP
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Thanks for continuing to report on the observations.

As for the front alignment, if the front camber is adjustable as others have stated, then Subaru could easily keep the same specs, which would just result in different positions for alignment eccentrics. Assuming they were not already maxed out in that particular direction.

Does that chassis also feel like it has less resonance (NVH) when hitting road irregularities than the old car?
 
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