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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Discussion Starter #1
This sucks big. After an extremely busy day at the shop, 17.75 hours in work within 6.5 hours, I leave the shop, head for the E85 pump, fill up and shoot for I35 south. I didn't get 1 mile from the HEB and the trans starts acting stupid. Engine revs, no torque output to the wheels, then it kicks in again. My engine and SC sounded like crap with the revving and kicking. It was fine prior to stopping for gas and didn't start stupid until I got across the interstate 3/4 miles down the road.

At a couple points in the time it did this, I felt what seemed like clutch slipping but more like gear slip. Anyone who has felt a torque converter go to shite, that's what it was like. So I am going to flip a u-turn and head back to the shop for another car. The car had different plans. Made it to the next opportune cross over and coasted across I35, just made a green light and coasted down the hill of the access road and called a tow. Again, Sucks.

Got it back to the shop an hour after it happened. Got it in, up on the lift, started it, put it in gear and it engaged. All wheels turning. Sped it up, trans shifted up through the gears, ABS and VDC lights popped on, as expected, but the wheels kept rolling. (I had the fuse in for the VDC to be off)

I'm thinking torque converter because all the axle shafts are in one piece. The rear wheels turn opposing when I turn one. I can hear the front diff with each front wheel rotation by hand and fluids are clean and full.

So, no clutch slipping prior. No noise. No excess vibration. No overtemp light. No codes, except for 2 rich codes but that is because I had to put gasoline in when I left the track to make sure I made it the hour and a half drive home. No irregular engine activity. It was shifting fine up to leaving the fuel station, then nothing.

I have never had a Subaru do this. I will be at the shop tomorrow for further investigation and let you know what comes. I'm thinking the trans is coming out and a larger cooler and shift kit are going in with a new TC. :spend: :28:
 

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Lawn ornament XT
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14,366 Posts
I have never had a Subaru do this. I will be at the shop tomorrow for further investigation and let you know what comes. I'm thinking the trans is coming out and a larger cooler and shift kit are going in with a new TC. :spend: :28:
This is also the first time you've twisted one of those transmissions with a supercharged H6.

It's a greasy badge of pride son, wear it like one! :29:

Oh, maybe time to consider a 5EAT swap?
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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14,325 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The transmission should handle the added torque easily. Especially with the rebuild in Feb this year.

I think I am going to either find a failed torque converter or bad seals at the pump or both.

Investigate today. Call the guy that rebuilt it tomorrow.
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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14,325 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Drained the fluid and removed the pan. The pan had metal in it and the sump screen was clogging. I'm posting from my phone, so I'll reduce the pic later and post it.

I didn't pull the trans because I know what happened and its going to be a few days before I can get it to the rebuilder. Even though the temp light never came on, it ran hot even with the remote cooler. Clutch particles is what is in the pan so at least 3rd clutch got burned and maybe the 2-4 band. Last night was due to starving for fluid.

I put it together with a clean screen, spin on was good so for now I am reusing it, filled with fresh fluid and ran 16 quarts through with the flush machine letting the trans run through the gears at the same time.

Drove it to see what it would do and it has an occasional 2-3 lag but holds the gears.

Another rebuild in order. Larger cooler going in series with the radiator and the Trans-Go kit is getting installed.

.
 

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OBW H6 VDC, Tribeca, XT6
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12,391 Posts
woah crack, tell us how you've really been driving it!!!
you got a good education out of this rig, nice job following through and sharing with us, thanks!
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Discussion Starter #6
woah crack, tell us how you've really been driving it!!!
you got a good education out of this rig, nice job following through and sharing with us, thanks!
I don't build for speed to drive slow.

The weird thing is there was no usual warning. Friday at the track, it didn't miss a beat. I had my laptop hooked up the whole night with Rom Raider running and everything remained perfect. I believe most of the internal damage occurred the last half mile it was running before I stopped to wait on a tow.

I'm patient. I planned for 8 months prior to starting the engine mods to make sure it would come out right. The transmission should have held up, so I'm thinking a failed/shrunk seal at the pump contributed.

Good thing a transmission is cheaper than an engine. :rolleyes:
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Discussion Starter #7
Talked to the shop that did the rebuild. He said he thought an updated kit was installed. I doubt it. Will have to have him go through the purchase orders for that part number as I let the shop get all the parts for the build since there was also broken hard parts the first time. (note: I bought the car on the cheap because it had transmission issues)

Dropping it off to them on Wednesday. Then wait for the tear down. I would do it, but I don't have a room suitable for transmission building. Thus, my transmission tools sit in a box in my storage room. :(
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Discussion Starter #8
The transmission is back in the car. I have been really busy at the shop and haven't put up the details, so here it is.

The 3rd clutch was slipping prior to the SC installation. Seal and heat. The adaptive shift has apparently been "covering" the problem until it got to the point that fluid flow was effecting the transmission drastically. All the clutch packs were burnt, steels were blue on 3rd.

A new master set from Raybestos was installed as was a Ratio Tek HD shift kit specific to the 4 speed and a new torque converter. The hoses, filter head, radiator and additional cooler were flushed prior to reinstallation.

The Ratio Tek installation improved fluid flow for lube and pressure, increased accumulator pressures and increased valve reaction timing.

I understand that Subaru couldn't have found a better location for torque converter bolt access, but what a PITA. Took longer to put the bolts in the TC than it took to support the engine, stab the trans, bolt it together, install the exhaust, driveshaft, hook up the WBs, all 4, and connect the cooler lines. That was last night.

So, this morning I got the starter in, fluids, connected, put all vacuum and the WTA and intake tube in and now it lives.

Shifting is much improved. The normal lag time for initial engagement is gone. P to D or R to D is instant response. Upshifts are quicker but not "slamming". There is no "pause".

Its been raining, about time, and I forgot to pull the VDC fuse out. Sideways the Soobercharged. But is was easy to handle. It was more sideways and forward until the tires grabbed better.

With the VTD on, still get a spin on 1-2 shift from one of the rear wheels on the wet pavement. Overall the drive home of 27 miles was smooth, even in backed up traffic. Throttle response was good before. Its better now.
 

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1999 Outback Limited 5MT
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68 Posts
It's good to hear that it's better. Hope to see you at the track one of the days that I can get there (next week maybe on nights this week) to see what your car can do and make my car feel jealous and maybe motivate it to start acting right.
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Discussion Starter #10
It's good to hear that it's better. Hope to see you at the track one of the days that I can get there (next week maybe on nights this week) to see what your car can do and make my car feel jealous and maybe motivate it to start acting right.
Work on the list I gave you. The battery and coil are top priority. And clean those grounds!
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Discussion Starter #11
Again????????

For starters, I am really PO'd. I am trying to think straight and my blood pressure is so high its ridiculous and I can't. :banghead: :3:

So, here's the dealio:

550 miles, to the tee, the pump quits in the transmission. No flow. None. No noises either. Prior or now. The only noise is from the engine, which is running great. I was really looking forward to running it at the track. Its been shifting good. No soft shifts and no slamming, so apparently the shift kit did its job. The trans fluid temperature has been good. Every time I checked the temperature at the cooler, 114-120F.

Today, I had a slow period and one of my customers wanted me to check out an 02 Limited at the Subaru dealer in Georgetown. No prob. Grab my scanner and off I go. Came back when the Used manager didn't want to take a fair price for what I found it needed, so we left. Got to the shop and parked it.

Took the fuel pump out to check the seals later in the afternoon, its been starting hard in the cold weather. Seals are good, everything still looks new, so they are holding up to the alcohol. Chalk up the hard start to the Alcohol and volume needed.

Put the pump in, started the car and let it sit to warm up. Got in to pull it in for a tire pressure check before I burned off, and no gear engagement. No D, no R. Nothing.

I checked all the plugs, grounds again, TPS, everything. Then with the engine running, pulled the dipstick. 2.5 inches over the full mark. No Flow.

WTF. Really? I've been driving conservative and paying attention to the shifts to make sure nothing was out of the ordinary and the engine is running perfect.

So, my question to the transmission gurus is: What would make a pump fail without any noise or indication of an issue? I mean it was shifting fine 5 hours earlier. I have an idea what it may be, but I will hold onto it until the trans is out and dismantled again. Because there is a relationship to this sudden issue and the previous 2. And its not the SC and extra HP/Torque.

Here's a short: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNLVtvOcmaw
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Discussion Starter #12
Update:

It wasn't what I thought it was, but close. I was thinking the pump shaft seals were installed wrong, I've seen it before.

Apparently all the trash did not get removed from the system. Something got into the valve body and lodged a valve open halting fluid flow to the torque converter which dumped the fluid it had.

The trans was completely disassembled again, cleaned, and reassembled. The car got a hot flush through the lines, radiator and cooler.

I should have it back Monday afternoon. I will have to go to the trans shop and hook up the intake system and extra vacuum so it will drive after they get the trans back in.
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Discussion Starter #14
If you are referring to an inline filter, no. It would restrict fluid flow, especially when I am trying to increase the flow for lubrication and added pressures.

The sump screen should have caught anything that is pumped up from the pan and the inline spin on is designed to catch larger pieces getting pumped out.

This was something inside the transmission or circuit after the spin on that shouldn't have been there and never made it to the pan to be caught by the screen.

This go around, they kept the hot bath hooked up to the car for a few hours circulating fluid through everything while the transmission and parts were being cleaned in the back room.
 
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