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2014 2.5 Limited CVT
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Discussion Starter #1
i have recently discovered that when my car is aligned to within factory specifications, i get uneven wear. the outer edges of all my tires have worn faster than the inside. the sipes in that area on my snow tires are slightly flared like keeled scales on a reptile. (if anyone knows what that means..)

im planning to flip the tires on their current wheels and then rotate them so the worn area is inside and the less worn edge is outside.

my question is this:

if i set the camber to slightly negative, will that solve the uneven wear issue??

i have a 2" lift, rallytek raised rear springs and ko2's for summer and general altimax arctics for winter. any guidance or ideas are greatly appreciated.
 

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2013 BRZ 2005 OBXT
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when you say within factory spec what do you mean. camber. toe. so on? In spec with the car unloaded? loaded? what are some things you do with the car so we have an idea of how much weight your hauling around with you on a regular basis.
 

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03 H6 OBW & 06 WRX Sportwagon
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is that called feathering?

I think some tires are prone to that, there may be other problems like worn bushings or weak struts too.
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
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when you say within factory spec what do you mean. camber. toe. so on? In spec with the car unloaded? loaded? what are some things you do with the car so we have an idea of how much weight your hauling around with you on a regular basis.
Agreed.

Do you have your alignment sheet we can see?

Any advice is hard to give without knowing where it is now.
 

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2010 2.5 CVT Limited
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In my experience, toe causes more wear problems than camber does unless the car is operated exclusively in a straight line.
Maligned toe settings cause the inner or outer edges of the tire to 'scrub' along as the car is driven. This has a greater influence on wear patterns than the tire being tilted over a few tenths of a degree.

The 2" lift kit has me suspicious. The factory specs may not be the right specs for your car because of the lift kit. The toe curve may be more exaggerated (the amount the toe changes as the suspension goes through its range of travel) at the ends where it must now work closer to. I don't know for sure that is the case on this model of car.

Try getting the alignment set with the typical load in the car. 3/4 tank of gas, driver in seat, etc.
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
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In my experience, toe causes more wear problems than camber does unless the car is operated exclusively in a straight line.
Maligned toe settings cause the inner or outer edges of the tire to 'scrub' along as the car is driven. This has a greater influence on wear patterns than the tire being tilted over a few tenths of a degree.

The 2" lift kit has me suspicious. The factory specs may not be the right specs for your car because of the lift kit. The toe curve may be more exaggerated (the amount the toe changes as the suspension goes through its range of travel) at the ends where it must now work closer to. I don't know for sure that is the case on this model of car.

Try getting the alignment set with the typical load in the car. 3/4 tank of gas, driver in seat, etc.
Agreed.

Scrubbing at the edges is always toe. Camber will run the inner or outer edges evenly. Toe acts on angle, so feathering or scrubbing comes from the angle.

Everyone always says they in "within spec" after lifting. I have lifted probably 15 vehicles in my past. Not one was ever the complexity of the OB suspensions.

I have struggled to get caster, camber and driveline angles right ... in solid axle leaf spring rigs. Add a (4) link front or rear with a cam bolt and its been even worse. I find it very hard to believe that a decent alignment can be had without adding additional adjustment points or links when lifting.

Sh*t I have had to resort to all of that just to get my Gen3 OB without any lift dialed in correctly.
 

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2014 2.5 Limited CVT
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Discussion Starter #7
thanks, everyone, for your replies. i get the whole "toe-in" problem and that it could be more problematic than positive camber. its been 3 months since my last alignment, so i dont have the sheet anymore and its probably slightly off from that anyway with NJ roads the way they are this time of year. I had a message exchange with Patrick Anderson yesterday and he wanted to see the current specs as well. He also insisted that if the cars toe and camber are correct, the tires would wear just like a factory set up. Ill get an alignment soon and post up the results.
 

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2013 BRZ 2005 OBXT
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thanks, everyone, for your replies. i get the whole "toe-in" problem and that it could be more problematic than positive camber. its been 3 months since my last alignment, so i dont have the sheet anymore and its probably slightly off from that anyway with NJ roads the way they are this time of year. I had a message exchange with Patrick Anderson yesterday and he wanted to see the current specs as well. He also insisted that if the cars toe and camber are correct, the tires would wear just like a factory set up. Ill get an alignment soon and post up the results.
He is correct in saying that. What I did after lifting my gen3 is loaded the back with 150lbs of rock salt and set my toe at -.03 in the rear and 0 in the front.

This made it so that in the rear without a load I was around -.07 for toe. Car handles worlds better. Issue I was having before was my toe was set at .03 (still within spec) before the adjustment and the rear when hitting bumps was very darty. Once I put some weight and negative camber that issue went all but away.
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
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This made it so that in the rear without a load I was around -.07 for toe. Car handles worlds better. Issue I was having before was my toe was set at .03 (still within spec) before the adjustment and the rear when hitting bumps was very darty. Once I put some weight and negative camber that issue went all but away.
These toe numbers are about perfect for the Gen3 rear. I think they are a good target for any Gen OB. I think it is very important to stress ... as even as possible side to side. I literally hate the "cross-toe" specs on full alignments. Techs just get everything within the ranges. Cross-toe, in the perfect world would not exist. They don't read cross-camber (maybe its rolled in with cross-toe via math calculations)

When wheels hit bumps individually or together, if the angles are not even, then the vector forces that act through them are not even.

The stock Outback suspension design has (1) alignment bolt. (1) bolt which directly controls (2) settings. Adding a second alignment point is critical in some cars to get a decent alignment, especially after lifting. These cars are NOT all the same on the rack. Some are better than others, some need to be corrected.
 

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These toe numbers are about perfect for the Gen3 rear. I think they are a good target for any Gen OB. I think it is very important to stress ... as even as possible side to side. I literally hate the "cross-toe" specs on full alignments. Techs just get everything within the ranges. Cross-toe, on the perfect world would not exist. They don't rear cross-camber (maybe rolled in with cross-toe via math calculations.

When wheels hit bumps individually or together, if the angles are not even, ten the vector forces that act through them are not.

The stock Outback suspension design has (1) alignment bolt. (1) bolt which directly controls (2) settings. Adding a second alignment point is critical in some cars to get a decent alignment, especially after lifting. These cars are NOT all the same on the rack. Some are better than others, some need to be corrected.
Full disclosure I do have adjustable lateral links as well and with lifting the car you may need to do the same OP.
 

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I don't think outside edge wear in the front is common - the wheels want to toe-in dynamically and inside edge wear can result from that - especially if tie rods or other parts are worn. Seems unlikely outside edge wear could be from some minor difference in alignment either.

very aggressive driving might wear outside edges....or a worn suspension part....?

I think bad caster , maybe with improper inflation can lead to feathering. Worn rear bushing on the LCA ?
 

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Is it possible the front wear is the same due to you rotating the tires or do you not rotate your tires all that often OP?
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
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I may have missed the front end information.

Outer edge on the front could be a combination of what was just said, and positive front camber. Caster I believe will change with the lift, unless ADF compensates for it with the strut spacer bolt alignments.

But Subaru allows for positive front camber in their recommendations. Positive camber, for tighter lower speed maneuvering. Off-Road and soft roading, is not a terrible thing.

However, it's darty and unstable IMPO on a lifted road car. Without adding additional camber bolts to the front struts, the front camber must be heavily positive. The front tires are going to wear that outside edge very hard. Toe won't correct this, you would have to toe-out and the contact patch would be weird.
 

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2014 2.5 Limited CVT
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Discussion Starter #15
Ive been towing my trailer quite a bit more than normal lately, now that i think about it. also, i got a 20mm rear sway bar and new harder bushings. of course that required a few weeks of corner testing to see how far over it would lean under different stresses: hard braking, hard acceleration, fast, etc...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Then it is likely that the wear your seeing all the way around could be just being generate by the rear and showing up on the front due to the tires being rotated as often as they are.
actually, with my Ko2's i noticed, because they were brand new, i noticed that the uneven wear was primarily coming from the front. when i took it to get it aligned most recently with my snow tires on, the guy at Mavis showed me there was some positive camber extreme enough to be visually identified on the front. after correcting that, it has seemed to be more evenly worn at all corners but still on the outside of all of them.

theres also a "wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-" that increases frequency with car speed and, in some cases becomes more pronounced when accelerating slightly or cornering to the right. its slight, but i notice it and its been getting more pronounced.
 

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actually, with my Ko2's i noticed, because they were brand new, i noticed that the uneven wear was primarily coming from the front. when i took it to get it aligned most recently with my snow tires on, the guy at Mavis showed me there was some positive camber extreme enough to be visually identified on the front. after correcting that, it has seemed to be more evenly worn at all corners but still on the outside of all of them.

theres also a "wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-" that increases frequency with car speed and, in some cases becomes more pronounced when accelerating slightly or cornering to the right. its slight, but i notice it and its been getting more pronounced.

The KO2 are a very loud tire. That said if the sounds increases in volume or has become more notiable even after getting the tires its possible you have a wheel bearing going out. A bad wheel bearing will also give you odd tire wear.
 

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2014 3.6R Limited
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Do you diagonally rotate your tires? If not from what I understand the tires will cup do to being an all wheel drive.
In the old days this was a no no! Suburu does call for diagonal rotation!

i exchange fronts to back with every oil change.
 
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