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Discussion Starter #1
First of i want to apologize this post of for my baja, my outback is running great, but there aren't any decent baja forums out there. So here it goes...I recently picked up an 06 baja non turbo, 5speed, 148k miles bone stock. I have super low power pulling out of hills, until it reaches about 2500 rpm then it takes off. This only happens once the engine is warm. It runs fine when cold. I have changed, plugs, knock sensor, map sensor, re-calibrated tps, cleaned egr, checked fuel pressure, pulled the fuel pump and checked tank, checked vacuum, checked cats with heatgun and also disconnected exhaust, No codes and no pending codes. I have a reader that shows live data and everything looks normal to me, but i am no tuning expert. The headgaskets were done by a dealer 15k ago before i purchased the car. I have also added more grounding straps, I have a new coil on order. I am totally lost I have read post after post and am about out of options. I hate to keep throwing parts at it.
 

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I changed the timing belt on my outback xt and screwed up, 1 exhaust cam was off by 1 tooth - and it was an absolute dog at low rpms.

You mentioned the dealer changed the head gaskets ... The timing belt would have to come off and back on. I'm not familiar with what engine your Baja has but you should be able to pull the cam covers, rotate the crankshaft and verify all the timing marks.

Good luck,
Mmmv,
M.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I changed the timing belt on my outback xt and screwed up, 1 exhaust cam was off by 1 tooth - and it was an absolute dog at low rpms.

You mentioned the dealer changed the head gaskets ... The timing belt would have to come off and back on. I'm not familiar with what engine your Baja has but you should be able to pull the cam covers, rotate the crankshaft and verify all the timing marks.

Good luck,
Mmmv,
M.
I’ll check it to make sure, but if the timing is off shouldn’t it run bad all the time and not just when it’s warmed up?
 

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05 GT wagon, 09 Spec B, 18 3.6R Outback
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There a thing about closed loop/open loop that might explain the difference your seeing if the timing is off.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There a thing about closed loop/open loop that might explain the difference your seeing if the timing is off.
I drove it today with live data running and when i have a steep hill close to my house that i test it on. I tried it cold when the loop was closed and open and it was the same, plenty of power when it was cold but lost power when it warmed up. I have a coil that will be here tomorrow. After that i am going to change the cps, if that doesn't work i guess I will pull the covers and check the timing. I might as well do the belt, water pump etc while i am in there.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Just a quick update. I ran live data tonight and noticed my ign timing was in the negative when pulling out on steep hills. This seems to be the problem. I am not sure why this doesn't happen when the car is cold, and if my belt was off a tooth would it not run bad all the time?
 

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2007 3.0R Outback 5EAT JDM 150k km
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Just a quick update. I ran live data tonight and noticed my ign timing was in the negative when pulling out on steep hills. This seems to be the problem. I am not sure why this doesn't happen when the car is cold, and if my belt was off a tooth would it not run bad all the time?
Any chance you could share that log file with us ?
 

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2007 3.0R Outback 5EAT JDM 150k km
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Also my car which runs OK has ignition total timing a negative half degree or so at cold start - interested to see the data to compare
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I also went ahead and pulled the timing covers and this is what i found (pics below) I am also 100% sure that the passenger side cam is off one tooth, The only thing that confuses me is it runs great cold...
487277
487280
487279
 

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That timing belt is correctly aligned as far as I can see. The left hand camgear (looking at the front of the engine) is typically around 1/2 tooth out after installation.

The timing belt (valve) timing is not directly related to the spark timing (except that they are both synchronised by the timing belt). The spark timing is controlled by the position of the crankshaft gear and the crankshaft position sensor and the ECU.

I suspect the ECU is retarding the spark timing for some reason (maybe knock sensor data or O2 sensor data). Logging data with Romraider and getting the assistance of someone like @cardoc to help with the log file analysis is probably the best way to find why the ECU is retarding the timing.

Seagrass
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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This BAJA is essentially an Outback with a truck bed. A Subie Ute with an EJ253 engine.

The temperature of the block and combustion chamber has a great deal to do with total combustion efficiency. A cold engine reduces the efficiency of combustion since it's cold; the chamber, the block and the fuel. AF Correction is negative, there's no detonation under loads. It's like running a rich AFR and cold IAT Power output is higher than normal.

As the engine warns up the fuel ignites easily. With engine temperature rising the IAT and fuel temp comes up also. The AF Correction changes in accord with temperatures.

Since the fuel ignites easily, the possibility of detonation goes up in relation to other factors, like carbon build up, timing alignment, type of fuel, sensor feedback and the outputs function; fuel pump, injectors, coil.

Since the ECM is pulling the ignition down, what looks like 15°, it is firing the coil later. This is due to detonation events and it's delaying ignition to stop the detonation. This prevents power output. A late ignition will not force the piston down at the same rate as firing ahead of TDC.

The timing in the pics looks okay. This means that either the fuel is shitey, there's a lot of detonation after the engine warns up due to carbon in the chamber or on the valves, the fuel shot is lean, or the knock sensor is cracked. Could be a combination.

My suggestion is to make sure you have good conductance between the battery post and the block, firewall and fenders. Check the knock sensor and it's orientation on the block. The connector end should be facing cylinder 1. If there's any corrosion around the sensor or the case is cracked, replace it. Make sure the wires to the sensor are not cracked or frayed.

From here it's fueling. Without data to see what the engine is doing, fuel pressure and flow would need to be checked. At 148k miles I would think the fuel filter may be restricted. Then there's the possibility of gum build up in the injectors which affects the spray and atomization. Next is the fuel type and grade. Do you use the same supplier? Same station? Low or high octane?

Another factor would be oil. Oil level and condition affects the AVLS system operation. Are there any leaks around the oil control valves? Is the AVLS functioning proper? (This goes back to seeing what the ECM is doing with data.)

As for carbon build up that affects combustion, any build up in the intake not only affects air flow, but it also heats up the air as it passes over the carbon prior to entering the chamber. Carbon on the valves and pistons affect ignition. When fuel hits the heated carbon it can ignite prior to spark, or it will cause an explosion rather than the burn. This is detonation when the fuel mix, or part of it explodes.

Rom Raider data would help me see what is going on. Otherwise I can only point in the various directions to determine possible causes. How much do you understand what the data points mean in total engine management?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This BAJA is essentially an Outback with a truck bed. A Subie Ute with an EJ253 engine.

The temperature of the block and combustion chamber has a great deal to do with total combustion efficiency. A cold engine reduces the efficiency of combustion since it's cold; the chamber, the block and the fuel. AF Correction is negative, there's no detonation under loads. It's like running a rich AFR and cold IAT Power output is higher than normal.

As the engine warns up the fuel ignites easily. With engine temperature rising the IAT and fuel temp comes up also. The AF Correction changes in accord with temperatures.

Since the fuel ignites easily, the possibility of detonation goes up in relation to other factors, like carbon build up, timing alignment, type of fuel, sensor feedback and the outputs function; fuel pump, injectors, coil.

Since the ECM is pulling the ignition down, what looks like 15°, it is firing the coil later. This is due to detonation events and it's delaying ignition to stop the detonation. This prevents power output. A late ignition will not force the piston down at the same rate as firing ahead of TDC.

The timing in the pics looks okay. This means that either the fuel is shitey, there's a lot of detonation after the engine warns up due to carbon in the chamber or on the valves, the fuel shot is lean, or the knock sensor is cracked. Could be a combination.

My suggestion is to make sure you have good conductance between the battery post and the block, firewall and fenders. Check the knock sensor and it's orientation on the block. The connector end should be facing cylinder 1. If there's any corrosion around the sensor or the case is cracked, replace it. Make sure the wires to the sensor are not cracked or frayed.

From here it's fueling. Without data to see what the engine is doing, fuel pressure and flow would need to be checked. At 148k miles I would think the fuel filter may be restricted. Then there's the possibility of gum build up in the injectors which affects the spray and atomization. Next is the fuel type and grade. Do you use the same supplier? Same station? Low or high octane?

Another factor would be oil. Oil level and condition affects the AVLS system operation. Are there any leaks around the oil control valves? Is the AVLS functioning proper? (This goes back to seeing what the ECM is doing with data.)

As for carbon build up that affects combustion, any build up in the intake not only affects air flow, but it also heats up the air as it passes over the carbon prior to entering the chamber. Carbon on the valves and pistons affect ignition. When fuel hits the heated carbon it can ignite prior to spark, or it will cause an explosion rather than the burn. This is detonation when the fuel mix, or part of it explodes.

Rom Raider data would help me see what is going on. Otherwise I can only point in the various directions to determine possible causes. How much do you understand what the data points mean in total engine management?
Thank you for your time and response and expert knowledge. I just ordered the cable and am going to download the software. I would say i have an okay knowledge in regards to data points. Most of my experience is with heavy equipment diesel engines, I was a service mechanic for several years but its a complete different animal. I will give a quick briefing on the car and what i have done thus far. I just purchased the car, The head gaskets were done 15k miles ago by a subaru dealer. The car runs great cold but when warm and on hills it falls flat on it face. There are no code or pending codes, I have checked the cats with a temp gun, changed coil, knock sensor, map sensor, spark plugs, set the tps, cleaned egr, tested fuel pressure(40psi) pulled fuel pump, tank looks good pre-filter screen also looks good, I have ran can of seafoam (before changing plugs) through the intake and added one to fuel when i filled up, I filled up using 93 but the tank was already half full. I just shot a video of the timing marks, because it was hard to tell from the pics. I will upload it now to see what you think.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
This BAJA is essentially an Outback with a truck bed. A Subie Ute with an EJ253 engine.

The temperature of the block and combustion chamber has a great deal to do with total combustion efficiency. A cold engine reduces the efficiency of combustion since it's cold; the chamber, the block and the fuel. AF Correction is negative, there's no detonation under loads. It's like running a rich AFR and cold IAT Power output is higher than normal.

As the engine warns up the fuel ignites easily. With engine temperature rising the IAT and fuel temp comes up also. The AF Correction changes in accord with temperatures.

Since the fuel ignites easily, the possibility of detonation goes up in relation to other factors, like carbon build up, timing alignment, type of fuel, sensor feedback and the outputs function; fuel pump, injectors, coil.

Since the ECM is pulling the ignition down, what looks like 15°, it is firing the coil later. This is due to detonation events and it's delaying ignition to stop the detonation. This prevents power output. A late ignition will not force the piston down at the same rate as firing ahead of TDC.

The timing in the pics looks okay. This means that either the fuel is shitey, there's a lot of detonation after the engine warns up due to carbon in the chamber or on the valves, the fuel shot is lean, or the knock sensor is cracked. Could be a combination.

My suggestion is to make sure you have good conductance between the battery post and the block, firewall and fenders. Check the knock sensor and it's orientation on the block. The connector end should be facing cylinder 1. If there's any corrosion around the sensor or the case is cracked, replace it. Make sure the wires to the sensor are not cracked or frayed.

From here it's fueling. Without data to see what the engine is doing, fuel pressure and flow would need to be checked. At 148k miles I would think the fuel filter may be restricted. Then there's the possibility of gum build up in the injectors which affects the spray and atomization. Next is the fuel type and grade. Do you use the same supplier? Same station? Low or high octane?

Another factor would be oil. Oil level and condition affects the AVLS system operation. Are there any leaks around the oil control valves? Is the AVLS functioning proper? (This goes back to seeing what the ECM is doing with data.)

As for carbon build up that affects combustion, any build up in the intake not only affects air flow, but it also heats up the air as it passes over the carbon prior to entering the chamber. Carbon on the valves and pistons affect ignition. When fuel hits the heated carbon it can ignite prior to spark, or it will cause an explosion rather than the burn. This is detonation when the fuel mix, or part of it explodes.

Rom Raider data would help me see what is going on. Otherwise I can only point in the various directions to determine possible causes. How much do you understand what the data points mean in total engine management?
Also i forgot to mention that I have added two new grounding straps from batter to the intake and one to the strut bolt, I also reset ecm and unplugged o2 sensors to see if that would help and it did not.
 
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