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Greetings from Corn State :)
BP still had 89 octane fuel last time I checked, which should be blend of 87 regular and 10% ethanol. And 87 octane that's new norm is really 85 octane gas blended with 10% ethanol.
I think blended 87 octane fuel has less MPG than 87 w/o ethanol, but not that much to make economical sense to not buy it.
We're seeing more of 88 octane fuel, which is blend of 85 and 15% ethanol. It is the cheapest.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
You asked about people's EXPERIENCE using these fuels. I related my experience with the 2000 Camry. I also reported that it did not seem to be the same for the 2015 Outback, and the difference was significant. If you weren't interested in hearing about experiences when the different fuels DID make a difference because the cars were older, you should have been more clear.

Chill, dude!
I didn’t think I had to include the disclaimer “experience with an Outback” given this is an Outback forum, I though that was a no brainer, I guess I was wrong
Comparing a 2000 Camry to a Gen 5 Outback
Apples and oranges, but thanks for your post
 

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Discussion Starter #25
E10 has been widely available since the early 1980s. My 1988 Pontiac Fiero, 1991 Buick Regal, and 1993 Dodge Caravan were all approved for E10 use by the manufacturers when new; my 1988 Dodge Caravan was a flex-fuel vehicle, approved for E0, E10, or E85.
Uhh, no it hasn’t, maybe in your case you should have Googled, E10 became legal in 1990 as a result of legislation. It didn’t really became widely available until ten years later.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Putting your ignorance in all caps doesn't make it any more factual.

What is it about this forum that breeds users with the worst attitudes this side of Youtube comments?
but it did grab your attention

changing gasoline doesn't change the gear ratio, if your car turns 2500 rpm to go 60, that's what your rpm will be regardless of what gas you use
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Agreed, but there are limits to the range of adjustment. It is also a FACT that the energy content of E10 (per unit volume) is about 3% less than "pure" gasoline. (Source: U.S. EPA) That translates to about 0.7 to 1 mpg difference in our Subarus, just due to energy content alone.
you are ignoring the fact that the higher octane MAY allow for advanced timing which MAY increase power and gas mileage
or put another way, using lower octane retards the timing which MAY lower power and/or gas mileage

it's why I asked for experience, not theory
 

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Uhh, no it hasn’t, maybe in your case you should have Googled, E10 became legal in 1990 as a result of legislation. It didn’t really became widely available until ten years later.
I Googled 'gasohol', which is what this stuff used to be called. The second hit was this:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/gasohol said:
...
Industrial, Agricultural and Energy Policies in the United States
The United States initiated policies for the use of ethanol as a vehicle fuel in order to ensure energy security in the 1970s during the first oil shock. In 1978, the National Energy Act benefited producers of gasohol (mixture of 10% ethanol with 90% gasoline) with tax credits.
...
The search terms you use matter.
 

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My $.02.....................

OK, so Ethanol is made with corn, corn is a water based product. I was told, as a kid, that water and oil don't mix! So, what's wrong with this picture?!?!

In my older motorcycles and ALL my small motors (mowers, weedeaters, ect) I only use non-eth. Yea, it's more costly (~$.20/gal), but when a machine sits over winter........ this is why your mower will not start, in the spring and you've been running the cheap stuff for years. There is some serious varnish in the carb of your SM and a major cleaning is in order.

Take 2 small(er) glass bottles, fill one with eth and one with non-eth, sit on a shelf for 2-3 months and check the separation. You'll see it. Shelf life on eth is 3-4 months, non-eth is 12!

In our cars, we do run eth fuel, but only because of cost and the fact they don't sit.

If you want/need non-eth fuel, this link should help you find something local to you.


I digress.......
Of course, this is a bit OT, but still vital re: fuels, IMPO.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I Googled 'gasohol', which is what this stuff used to be called. The second hit was this:



The search terms you use matter.
it really doesn't matter when gasahol/E10 or whatever you want to call it first appeared, what matters is when the auto MFG'ers designed their vehicles to run on it, and I've already made a post when ALL of a particular MFG'ers models were designed to run on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
My $.02.....................

OK, so Ethanol is made with corn, corn is a water based product. I was told, as a kid, that water and oil don't mix! So, what's wrong with this picture?!?!
oil comes from dead dinosaurs, so what's your point?
your argument is ridiculous


on the other hand, you are not supposed to use alcohol based fuels in lawn mowers etc.
but that's not what the thread is about, this is the Subaru Outback forum
 

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oil comes from dead dinosaurs, so what's your point?
your argument is ridiculous
Water and OIL don't mix!

You started it! ...and your point is????????

on the other hand, you are not supposed to use alcohol based fuels in lawn mowers etc.
but that's not what the thread is about, this is the Subaru Outback forum
Tell that to the rest of the American humans, they didn't get the memo/email/ect.............

deuce rocket You seem rather miffed that people bring up points that you don't agree with. So, don't argue when someone has a point to make! You've done this a few times in this thread and you're showing your ineptitude. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmph!
 

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Uhh, no it hasn’t, maybe in your case you should have Googled, E10 became legal in 1990 as a result of legislation. It didn’t really became widely available until ten years later.
I stand by my original post, except that I might de-emphasize "widely" until after the 1990 mandate. I was personally experimenting with E10, by that time available at several local service stations, in my daily driver (a 1980 Porsche 928) as early as 1984.
 

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you are ignoring the fact that the higher octane MAY allow for advanced timing which MAY increase power and gas mileage
or put another way, using lower octane retards the timing which MAY lower power and/or gas mileage
I was ignoring nothing.

"The energy content of ethanol is about 33% less than pure gasoline ... In general, vehicle fuel economy may decrease by about 3% when using E10 relative to gasoline that does not contain fuel ethanol." (Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration)

Rave on, Dude!
 

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Sheesh...
Uhh, no it hasn’t, maybe in your case you should have Googled, E10 became legal in 1990 as a result of legislation. It didn’t really became widely available until ten years later.
I Googled 'gasohol', which is what this stuff used to be called. The second hit was this:

<reference to 1978 legislation legalizing 10% Ethanol in motor fuel>

The search terms you use matter.
it really doesn't matter when gasahol/E10 or whatever you want to call it first appeared, what matters is when the auto MFG'ers designed their vehicles to run on it, and I've already made a post when ALL of a particular MFG'ers models were designed to run on it.
You don't like having your "facts" challenged with actual facts, do you?

Given the reliability of your other assertions, there's little reason to believe any of your claims simply because you make them.

Besides, here's how this topic opened, since you seem to have forgotten:
1st, if you are going to post “facts” from Googling, at least do it from a scientific source. @nd, if you haven’t actually used them, it may be a good idea to listen for a bit B4 posting. And if you flatly refuse to use ANY gas with alcohol, please go to one of the 16mm vs. 19mm SB threads. 😊
...
After using it a while I really don’t see any difference in performance or gas mileage between E10 or E15. Modern engines adjust to the fuel right? This might shock some but I almost always use E10 in my 2007 Corvette. ...
I also tried E15 in the Vette, about 5 gallons in a near empty tank, also with no apparent difference, although a one time use doesn’t say much. And no, every seal and electrical connection did not fail.
I think I will continue to use E15 in the OB, I’ll talk about why in a later post.
As far as 85 octane regular goes, my gas mileage INCREASES, but that’s probably due to travelling at higher elevations and the mixture leaning out. I find this happens whether I was/am using my 92 HP Mazda B2200 pickup, OB, or Vette. Most vehicles are set to burn too rich a mixture, this helps longevity, IOW, the manufacturer experiences less engine work.
Anyway, would like to hear your EXPERIENCE using these fuels.
Don’t bother repeating what you read on the internet, or what a friend of a friend says, I know how to Google too.
Then...
several of you have related how there was a difference in MPG, OK, however, one of you was comparing a 2000 Camry, another a 2004 Suburban, those cars likely weren't designed to run on E10, the Gen 5 Outback was designed 15-20 years later and likely to use E10, modern cars adjust to the fuel used, that is a FACT
I didn’t think I had to include the disclaimer “experience with an Outback” given this is an Outback forum, I though that was a no brainer, I guess I was wrong
Comparing a 2000 Camry to a Gen 5 Outback
Apples and oranges, but thanks for your post
Who opened by discussing a Corvette and a Mazda in an Outback forum? If you don't remember, re-read your first post.

I suppose comparing a Gen 5 Outback with a 2007 Corvette isn't apples to oranges, it's apples to lemons. ;)

Please take a deep breath, calm down, read the reply again and see how it applies to the post it's in response to before making your own angry reply. In other words...
Will Rogers said:
"If you find yourself in a hole, quit digging."
 

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Uhh, no it hasn’t, maybe in your case you should have Googled, E10 became legal in 1990 as a result of legislation. It didn’t really became widely available until ten years later.
Well at the risk of being banned, it's exceptional clear you are clueless and unwilling to learn or participate civilly seeing how you lash out at people and spout off wrong information, possibly because you rely too much on google. But E10 "legalization", we are not talking about weed here, has nothing to do with when it was first available.Gasohol as it was called back in the late 70's which included a 10% blend of corn and 90% gas was the result of the gas shortage of '73 and attempts to prevent such shortages.I suggest you go back and google yourself and maybe release some of your pent up frustration over octane and blends.
 
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