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Discussion Starter #1
When I bought my car from a local Toyota dealer, they had had it serviced at another shop. The valve cover gaskets were replaced, and the vehicle was checked for head gasket leaks.

After about 2000 miles I noticed that there was some oil leaking, but after some research thought that maybe it was the separator plate. I went to change my oil yesterday and noticed that the leak had gotten worse, and it appeared to be from the valve covers, as it was leaking from the back corners of the motor. I took it in to the place that had serviced it 12k miles ago. I had stopped in after 2k miles and let them know it was leaking. They inspected the car for free, and said that it was in fact the valve covers leaking.

Here's where it starts going down hill. They say they will cover the parts, but I have to cover the labor. Labor cost would be $205. I try to barter with them, offering to split the labor costs, which would cover pay for the mechanic, and the cost of parts basically. They still refused, and said that is all they could do for me.

If they won't do anything for me maybe the dealer where I bought the car will. So I go and talk to the manager of the dealership. I ask how often he does business with this other shop and he says a few cars a month. I figure with an average labor cost of about $400 per car(mine was over 5 with everything they had done and parts) that's between $800 and $1000 a month. I then tell him what is going on, he says he has to call them tomorrow on another job and will see what he can work out. I can't imagine this shop wants to lose that kind of repeat business.

I'm very irritated though. Then after all that they have the nerve to tell me I need to replace the whole axle because the boot is torn. I know you can replace just the boot. That's another 150 in labor plus parts!
 

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Rule #1 NEVER EVER buy a USED car from a DEALER! Unless its a NEW USED car ie CPO CAR.

Always buy used cars from private party original owners with all records!

All other sellers are a complete crap shoot and be prepared to have some expensive repairs not mentioned by the seller.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I had the carfax, locally owned and all of the service was done at the local Subie dealer except for the valve covers.

I went to the subie dealer and checked with them, they said it was a great purchase, they were disappointed it didn't end up back on their lot. One owner, old couple, seemed like a great car. Outside of this I haven't had any unsuspected problems. Just the way they are handling this situation is just wrong, not how I would do it if it were my business.
 

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The faster - and easier a used car is to sell the less a dealer does to it. I bet the dealer didn't do jack to the car and hardly even detailed it. The valve cover claim was just a sales job ie blowing smoke up your back side. The 3rd party shop is simply playing along so they don't loose the easy money jobs fed to them by the dealership.

The valve cover gaskets were either done or not and given they are leaking they were not done.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I saw all of the sales records, and can tell the valve covers have been replaced. The dealer I bought it from is a reputable dealer around here, I really don't think they would have done that.

They obviously weren't done properly though.
 

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Also very possible both the dealer and the shop are playing the don't say anything let the customer think they know what the issue is because they know what the issue is and it is far more than the Valve cover gaskets. AKA the HG are leaking oil which case they are holding their breath that you some how go away before it becomes apparent that the issue is not what you think it is.

If there are receipts showing valve cover gaskets done and the shop wants more to fix a faulty job that raises some questions for me.
 

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I would run it over to the Subaru dealer and ask them to inspect it and sort out where the oil leak is. Then go from there
If they say the valve cover gaskets are the issue then I would go back to the dealer who was the primary customer in fixing them and light a fire under their ass. Given the toyota dealer as the 3rd party shop customer could be getting crap or no work for the billed jobs they are paying for.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
That is possible, but from what I can see, the head gaskets look fine. I might take it into the Subaru dealer and have them look at it within the next few days though.

Hadn't even seen your post yet, but yeah. The manager of the Toyota dealer didn't seem very happy when I talked to him about it. He said "they said they would cover labor and you pay for parts?" I responded with "No, the other way around" he gave me a funny look and said "That's not right at all"

I will get this whole thing sorted out, and if the third party shop is a BBB Accredited business I will file a complaint. Either way there will be some not so friendly reviews online for them.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Toyota called them, and they bull shitted their way out of the issue with them, with the whole mileage thing etc.

So I filed a complaint with the BBB. I will be parking my car out by the road with a big sign that warns potential customers that the service they will receive is unsatisfactory.

Halli's Auto Care in Kalamazoo MI NEVER take your care there for service!
 

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Toyota called them, and they bull shitted their way out of the issue with them, with the whole mileage thing etc.

So I filed a complaint with the BBB. I will be parking my car out by the road with a big sign that warns potential customers that the service they will receive is unsatisfactory.

Halli's Auto Care in Kalamazoo MI NEVER take your care there for service!
What mileage thing?

I had toyota replace the inner axle seals on my 93 Land Cruiser two years ago they started leaking this spring. The truck went exactly 5000 miles between the time they "replaced" the seals and when they started leaking. I took it back showed the service manager the receipt which happened to still be in the glove box and told him to fix it.

I happen to be familiar with these seals if the tech did not clean out the seat and left some gear oil the seals will slip and leak very shortly. This is either what happened OR they charged me for work they never did and they simply cleaned it up and figured I wouldn't notice. $700 job by the way.

They did the seals again no charge to me Service manager was not happy.

Seems to me you need to play hard ball with Toyota who freaking cares what the 3rd party shop Toyota hired did or didn't do your doing business with the toyota dealer not the 3rd party shop.

The way I see it your letting the seller ie Toyota dealer off the hook by letting this 3rd party shop distract you.

A Toyota tech can easily replace valve cover gaskets on a Subaru with no issues. Your getting played by the Toyota dealer.
 

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If you purchased the car from the Toyota dealer your only dealing with Toyota not this other shop who did work for them.

My guess since you purchased the car used from the Toyota dealer that you paid above market value given no dealer sells used cars today at or below market value. That means even if they put their own tech on your car and make you a happy customer by fixing the valve cover gaskets - they are still making money on your purchase. Given they are handling this poorly it is a fair guess this Toyota dealer is a Piece of - Shjt dealer to start with.

By the way it wasn't till recently that New car dealers even wanted to sell used cars that were more than a couple of years old and had more than 50K on them given they have no interest in correcting minor little issues with older cars - that just hurts their margin on the car. The past two years used car prices have shot up and are expected to go higher as a result you have new car dealers stocking up on Auction cars in huge numbers! Given their profit on the used cars is WAY WAY higher today with the high used car prices we have.
Our local Toyota dealer has 200 used cars sitting on a back lot and when they need more SUV's or other type of car rolled out they wash them up change the oil and roll them out to the front lot. Another near by Toyota dealer is making so much money off used cars they have actually moved the new cars off to the side lot and the front lot consists of their used cars! No JOKE!

Go get your valve covers fixed at the Subaru dealer and be sure to tell everyone you know never to buy a car new or used from that dealer and to avoid that shop that did work for them. That is how consumers vote - they vote with their money and eventually the businesses decide to change or they take it in the shorts in the form of lost revenue
 

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The faster - and easier a used car is to sell the less a dealer does to it. I bet the dealer didn't do jack to the car and hardly even detailed it. The valve cover claim was just a sales job ie blowing smoke up your back side. The 3rd party shop is simply playing along so they don't loose the easy money jobs fed to them by the dealership.

The valve cover gaskets were either done or not and given they are leaking they were not done.
Or they attempted to cut cost by using aftermarket seals that don't fit and leak. Or, the tech that did the work is sloppy and figured its a used lot, collect the pay and go to the next one. There wouldn't be any warranty once the car left the shop and is sold.

You can't hold any warranty to a third party. The "manager" at the used lot stating he would talk with the shop the next day is like saying, "Go F%#k Yourself", it happens.

The only way you will be able to force any recourse would be dependent on the sales contract you signed. As Is? Month/Mileage warranty? State statutes that may be able to assist? Someone higher up, say the dealership GM instead of the pion.

It sucks, yeah, but apparently you have had the car long enough to travel 12k miles when the gaskets should have been repaired at the 2k mark. That's when you should have pushed it on the dealer where you purchased.


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Discussion Starter #14
What mileage thing?

I had toyota replace the inner axle seals on my 93 Land Cruiser two years ago they started leaking this spring. The truck went exactly 5000 miles between the time they "replaced" the seals and when they started leaking. I took it back showed the service manager the receipt which happened to still be in the glove box and told him to fix it.

I happen to be familiar with these seals if the tech did not clean out the seat and left some gear oil the seals will slip and leak very shortly. This is either what happened OR they charged me for work they never did and they simply cleaned it up and figured I wouldn't notice. $700 job by the way.

They did the seals again no charge to me Service manager was not happy.

Seems to me you need to play hard ball with Toyota who freaking cares what the 3rd party shop Toyota hired did or didn't do your doing business with the toyota dealer not the 3rd party shop.

The way I see it your letting the seller ie Toyota dealer off the hook by letting this 3rd party shop distract you.

A Toyota tech can easily replace valve cover gaskets on a Subaru with no issues. Your getting played by the Toyota dealer.
Oh I'm not done yet trust me. I was hoping they would be able to take care of it through the other shop that messed it up in the first place.

I mean really its not a big deal I can do it myself. I have the knowledge and tools required. I would just rather have it done properly again by the people who messed it up in the first place. It has been 12k miles since they were reaplaced, but after 2k i notice a leak and talked to the owner of the shop but didn't get it back in right away. Doesn't matter to him.

If you purchased the car from the Toyota dealer your only dealing with Toyota not this other shop who did work for them.

My guess since you purchased the car used from the Toyota dealer that you paid above market value given no dealer sells used cars today at or below market value. That means even if they put their own tech on your car and make you a happy customer by fixing the valve cover gaskets - they are still making money on your purchase. Given they are handling this poorly it is a fair guess this Toyota dealer is a Piece of - Shjt dealer to start with.

By the way it wasn't till recently that New car dealers even wanted to sell used cars that were more than a couple of years old and had more than 50K on them given they have no interest in correcting minor little issues with older cars - that just hurts their margin on the car. The past two years used car prices have shot up and are expected to go higher as a result you have new car dealers stocking up on Auction cars in huge numbers! Given their profit on the used cars is WAY WAY higher today with the high used car prices we have.
Our local Toyota dealer has 200 used cars sitting on a back lot and when they need more SUV's or other type of car rolled out they wash them up change the oil and roll them out to the front lot. Another near by Toyota dealer is making so much money off used cars they have actually moved the new cars off to the side lot and the front lot consists of their used cars! No JOKE!

Go get your valve covers fixed at the Subaru dealer and be sure to tell everyone you know never to buy a car new or used from that dealer and to avoid that shop that did work for them. That is how consumers vote - they vote with their money and eventually the businesses decide to change or they take it in the shorts in the form of lost revenue
Actually I paid $4700 out the door for my car. Private party value is $5500. I figured I would end up having some problems with it as you always do. This dealer rarely keeps cars this old on the lot. In fact I believe this is one of the few I have ever seen.

Or they attempted to cut cost by using aftermarket seals that don't fit and leak. Or, the tech that did the work is sloppy and figured its a used lot, collect the pay and go to the next one. There wouldn't be any warranty once the car left the shop and is sold.

You can't hold any warranty to a third party. The "manager" at the used lot stating he would talk with the shop the next day is like saying, "Go F%#k Yourself", it happens.

The only way you will be able to force any recourse would be dependent on the sales contract you signed. As Is? Month/Mileage warranty? State statutes that may be able to assist? Someone higher up, say the dealership GM instead of the pion.

It sucks, yeah, but apparently you have had the car long enough to travel 12k miles when the gaskets should have been repaired at the 2k mark. That's when you should have pushed it on the dealer where you purchased.


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Yes I bought it as is, and I understand that. I just figured the shop that f***ed up replacing the gaskets would want this fixed. I know if I had done this job I would fix it at no cost to the customer.

The owner of the shop said they used cheap seals to just et it out the door.

As stated previously I can replace the gaskets in a few hours out in my garage without a problem. I cannot afford to pay someone else to do it, I'm a college student.
 

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first off were they leaking in the beggining??? sounds like they may have charged for work not done. or there could be the possility the mech broke a bolt and just left it
 

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Discussion Starter #16
first off were they leaking in the beggining??? sounds like they may have charged for work not done. or there could be the possility the mech broke a bolt and just left it
I first noticed the leak at 2000 miles, so it's possible.
 
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