Looks like there's still a 60hz overboost and 500hz suck out. I bet the KEY amp will fix that automatically, based on microphone based auto-EQ.

 

Yes, that is a option - there are amps with measuring microphones which compensate for the inequalities.
Any particular brand/model (if you have in mind) KEY amp i a brand? Some link to a webpage please .

But even if I reach that conclusion, what I am doing now - enforcing speakers and doors will be just beneficial for that scenario too

 

Next step - stiffening the doors .


Next weekend, in addition of the already used sound absorbing materials on the right doors, I will on te right door use more sound deadening

This spray

will be sprayed at whole internal walls behind the speaker. It harder them amd should ( hopefully) reduce the 60Hz peak


I will keep you posted as I have the results


If this doesn't work , there are three more options possible

1. upgrading the amp ( what most of the people do)
2. Some kind of equalizer/digital processor
3. Passive notch LCR filter installed right on the speakers.

But kets not rush to this before we see the results next weekend.

 

KICKER | Key 200.4 Smart Amplifier

KICKER produces high-performance car audio, vehicle specific solutions, marine audio, home and personal audio, and power sports products since 1973.

www.kicker.com

 

Thanks.

Will review and consider

However, in audio there is a principle - if possible to eliminate or at least reduce the source of the problems, and than to correct it.
That's why there is a whole trend in audiophile society - the minimalists. (They build tube amps with fewer possible components, becuase any new component can bring some kind of distortion, less realism)

It appears that in Outback audio case, the source is the mechanical resonance of the doors. I noticed that for this car engineers used lighter gage sheets.
Also, please note - two different speakers a low end stock and a mid end upgrate shows very similar resonances artound the same frequency. Must be the mechanial resonance of the door vibrating.
Imagine putting any beutifuly designed high end speaker on a thin from cheese.

What do you think the sound will be?


A speaker works always with its audio cabinet, in thsi case - the door . The best gome speakers are made from solid wood, coposite materials. I will focus for now on stiffening of the doors as much as possible, and then will reviw the option for the amp.

 

I am checking the amp. Price is not bad and power-wise and size-wise it appears to be a perfect .match for my case

But I hate to open front console of a car
It turns installation of spekaers is easy,

But installation of a car amplifier ewwwww

 

Someone has given instructions on how to create a harness using purchased parts soldered together that will intercept the signal that would go to the door speakers, direct it to the amp's high level inputs, then pass the equalized and re-amplified signal back to the speakers. The only new wiring would be a fused +12v from the battery, to the location of the Kicker KEY amp. It would be using the stock wiring harness to the speakers.

I think it's an excellent idea to first dampen and stiffen the door and panels before doing an EQ amplification.

 

Installation video on the link at the bottom of the page

KICKER | Key 200.4 Smart Amplifier

KICKER produces high-performance car audio, vehicle specific solutions, marine audio, home and personal audio, and power sports products since 1973.

www.kicker.com

However, if the harness with the speaker signals is easy accessible - than not a big deal ro figure out the installation.

But check out what is the standard service manual for a technician if you want to update with the standard offered Rockford Fosgate amp.

https://techinfo.subaru.com/stis/doc/accInstallGuide/H630SAN000_Rockford%20Audio%20Upgrade_2020%20Legacy_OBK_IxI_Ver%201.0-EN.pdf

 

That is the part which scares me - with Outback 2020:you have to disintegrate half of the vehicle just to reach the harness behind the car audio

 

It isn’t terrible. Most of the panels come off and go back on very easily. A trim tool helps so you dont scratch anything. And definitely cover the shifter pole with a blanket or towel when you pull the head unit.

I have the same speakers and did basically the same sound dampening as you, but I’ve installed the Key amp. I ha e the HouseCurve app and I’ll run it in a bit and share the results.

 

Here are the results. You can toggle EQ on/off with the amp, but I suppose even with EQ off there is still some processing happening. I measured these with the head unit EQ flat and everything centered.

WITHOUT EQ

WITH AUTO EQ

 

That huge bump around 60hz is shifted but still there. Wow. Does the bass sound tightened with EQ on, or is it still boomy? Lifted the midbass nicely so maybe it sounds better?

 

It is definitely not booming. That was without a high pass filter enabled on the amp and my sub off.

I’m currently changing the sub setup. I had it in the back, but I don’t think that works well for the 8” hideaway kicker. I’m going to put it under the passenger seat and try it out. Also, with it in the front, I can cut the lows to the speakers and use the sub to cover that range and it should h

@mattcal
Did you make the measurement with bass treble and mids at 0?


I do my measurements with iPad speaker directly facing the speaker itself 10cm away. I will let my fellow American Subaru Outback brothers to figure out how much is this in inches


It is fun if more folks share results of their systems with the same app
Cost less than a coffee.

Do we can compare

Yes, the head unit EQ was all flat. I’ll try again with it closer to the speakers. I measured with my iPhone in front of my face.

 

@mattcal
Did you make the measurement with bass treble and mids at 0?


I do my measurements with iPad speaker directly facing the speaker itself 10cm away. I will let my fellow American Subaru Outback brothers to figure out how much is this in inches


It is fun if more folks share results of their systems with the same app
Cost less than a coffee.

Do we can compare

 

Silver Onyx, may be the bump of 60Hz with auto EQ is a proof my point:

The correction system are not always capable to react in real time, to follow and correct the issues. In this case resonating of a thinner metal door can be hard to predict and react on by the equilizer

That is why I want to address as much (as much as I can) first the issue at the source. Which at this point I believe would be the mechanical resonance of the hollow doors.

 

Yes I was thinking the same thing, or even if it's not the door itself, 65hz has a wavelength of about 17 feet, maybe the interior of the car?

It would be nice to get impulse measurements with a waterfall plot.

 

@SilverOnyx

Eureka, how come I didn’t think this?

You know how when you open back window of a regular sedan it creates vibrations of the whole air in the car?

Could be standing wave in the whole car interior.
I like your thinking !
But if this turns to be the case - I have no idea how it can be resolved , if ever

 

If we will measure and compare using the same up, we have to set some agreement, so we can compare apples with apples:

Here is my proposal:

1. Bass mid and treble of the head unit =0, reset, flat
2. Measurement with the microphone of the phone facing the speaker about 10cm (4 inches away from the speaker)
3. Phone volume=100%, car audio volume set to 50%
4. When certain speaker is measured , lets take away the rest for example FL measured , use the head unit balance to send signal only to it.


I am thinking - if the results of:
1. direct in front of one speaker
2. In the middle of the car, all door speakers on
are quite different- it may give us some hint if the “ conspiracy theory” of the whole car air volume resonance is possible


I believe if we study separately - each in his own care and see some correlation between our results
, we can come to more conclusive results

 

If we will measure and compare using the same up, we have to set some agreement, so we can compare apples with apples:

Here is my proposal:

1. Bass mid and treble of the head unit =0, reset, flat
2. Measurement with the microphone of the phone facing the speaker about 10cm (4 inches away from the speaker)
3. Phone volume=100%, car audio volume set to 50%
4. When certain speaker is measured , lets take away the rest for example FL measured , use the head unit balance to send signal only to it.


I am thinking - if the results of:
1. direct in front of one speaker
2. In the middle of the car, all door speakers on
are quite different- it may give us some hint if the “ conspiracy theory” of the whole car air volume resonance is possible


I believe if we study separately - each in his own care and see some correlation between our results
, we can come to more conclusive results

I don't have an Apple device - is there a methodology that would allow my Android phone to participate?

 

Unfortunately I checked and there is no HouseCurve for Android, but it's better that we have comparable results from apple devices rather than having to get worse results just to include android as well, so I look forward to the results of a consistent methodology.

 

I agree.

I will post more studies later on, but not today.

I assume that if we are more persistent and do more studies as a group - we will find this resonance bitch and deal with it appropriately.

 

So I set the high pass filter to 120hz on the amp and measured with all EQ on the head unit flat and the volume about 50%. Phone was a few inches from the left front speaker.

There is still a spike around 63hz even though those are cut from the speakers. I think you’re on to something environmental.

 

Much better, but Yes doesnt matter what we do electronically it is still there

Since it is Halloween holidays now - someone may load a whole hay bale in the back of his outback - just to measure and hear- if any this 60Hz phantom is still there

 

or invite in the car seats all 3 of his 260 lbs aunts

 

or measure with the rear hatch open

 

Back hatch open, and 3 doors open:

Measured at 4 inches in front of the LEFT FRONT door with the upgraded Kicker 6x9 (this was the only door closed)

Head unit : flat and 50% volume 100 % volume on the Ipad

I think it is safe to say it is not a resonance of the full car volume. Must be the door accoustics

 

@mattcal

you can try too

 

Here you go, all flat EQ and 50% volume and the sub off with the phone 4 inches from the front left speaker.

All doors closed

Front left door open, hatch closed

Hatch open, front door closed

Hatch open, front door open

 

Hard to make sense...

OK with setting hi-pass to 120Hz first you kind of reduce overall the whole low end . But you still have some bump around 65Hz. Not as strong as my case.

Now - with front doors open you are killing the bump. Opening of the hatchdoesnt do any difference.