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Help! Weird ignition system electrical snag - 2008 Outback basic wagon 2.5 L, 175,000m manual trans.

3.4K views 23 replies 7 participants last post by  plain OM  
#1 ·
Re-installed motor after changing 2 bent exhaust valves. (Bolt retaining cam belt tensioner backed off and belt slipped. Two new exhaust valves, new tensioner, bolt and mounting bracket, new head gaskets, new head bolts, new camshaft seals, new valve oil seals. Lapped in all 16 valves, set clearances and reassembled motor).
Went to restart, no battery power to ignition system. Gauges illuminate, swing once then settle. No warning lights for CEL, Alt. Fuel pump doe not run for 3 secs when ignition turned on. OBD reader light on when connected but when ignition key is turned to on the OBD reader goes blank. No click of starter motor solenoid.

Haynes manual shows starter circuit with two relays; an Interrupt Relay(B59) and a Starter Interrupt Relay(B225) but I cannot physically locate them, they are not in the engine bay relay and fuse panel. All 7.5 amp fuses under the hood and in the fuse panel in the driver's foot-well have been checked and are good. Clutch switch disconnected and shorting link used across connector made no difference.
Any ideas, please?
 
#2 ·
I wouldn't go looking at things that were not an issue before and you didn't touch. Did you check battery voltage across terminals when attempting to start? If it is good at rest and doesn't drop when attempting a start, there's no draw on the battery. I'd start tracing/checking connections and voltage in the starting circuit. If there is a significant draw (down to say 9.6V or less) then either too much current is being drawn or the battery is simply not up to snuff and you need to charge it.

Best be careful if you bypass a neutral switch. Hope you have park brake on and wheels blocked and trans in neutral.
 
#3 ·
Battery has had trickle charger on it while motor was out. Shows fully charged 13.3V. Voltmeter shows no change when ignition key turned to "start" posn. Charge light is on, CEL and is off.

Feels as if something major like a relay not operating. Ignition Switch?
 
#9 ·
Both diagrams below are from the 2008 FSM. They are essentially the same (for your purposes) but from different sections of the FSM.



The following shows a transmission serial # range, but that applies only for ATs, not MTs.

 
#11 ·
Interesting...I seem to recall that the Basic model with M/T does not have a fuel pump relay. Not sure about starter relay, but if they are in the car they are well hidden as they are not in the under-hood fuse and relay panel. If there is an inhibitor switch, what is its function in an M/T car which has a clutch switch?
 
#13 ·
I seem to recall that the Basic model with M/T does not have a fuel pump relay.
No distinction between the AT and MT in regard to the fuel pump relay.
If there is an inhibitor switch, what is its function in an M/T car which has a clutch switch?
MT does not have an inhibitor switch. In the wiring diagrams, some wires (black lines) have a rectangle with MT in it, others a rectangle with AT in it. If your car is MT, the wires with AT in them do not apply.

Fuel pump relay is on a small panel under the dashboard on the very far right. Starter relay is on a relay panel to the right of the in-cabin fuse box in the dashboard to the left of the steering wheel shaft. Neither is prone to failure, and unlikely they would with engine work. As others have suggested, go back over all the work, especially connectors and ground wires; removal of the engine requires some disconnections, and when moving the engine out and in, others could be disturbed.
 
#12 ·
You DO NOT need a wiring diagram.

The symptoms you have are typically due to a large earth wire not being reconnected.

Re-check all your work.

Seagrass
 
#14 ·
The only large earth wire that I recall disconnecting/reconnecting is the -ve battery cable to the connecting bracket attached to the starter motor mounting bolt threaded into the motor clutch housing. I've a good look around the motor for unconnected cables, but will check again in the morning. I will also check the M/T Neutral switch, also referred to as an Inhibitor Switch, because that is in the starter circuit.
 
#15 ·
I will also check the M/T Neutral switch, also referred to as an Inhibitor Switch, because that is in the starter circuit.
Neither of the Starter wiring diagrams have a MT Neutral Switch, and the wiring to the Inhibitor Switch shown in the diagrams are all "AT".

I don't have a MT, but I'm fairly sure the engine can be started with the MT gear selector in a gear, i.e., it doesn't have to be in Neutral. (But the clutch pedal has to be depressed.) Perhaps others can clarify if this is correct or not.

There is a Neutral Position Switch on the side of the transmission, but it is used for engine rpm management when in N, or when passing through N when shifting gears.
 
#24 ·
Good find.

Incidentally, that large connector pair (B21/E2), that would have been disconnected to remove the engine carries the grounds for the ECM. Most signal circuits in the ECM are not grounded ("return path") through its metal case to the car body; rather, there's a number of wires from the ECM through the large bulkhead connector pair to ground lugs on the engine. So a bad contact in one of the ground wires for the ECM could, in effect, disable the related circuit. The Starter Relay is activated by the ECM grounding the low side of the relay's internal electromagnet coil. If the ECM circuit doesn't have a good ground, there's no return, and the relay won't be turned on, leading to a no start situation.