Most recommended only using Subaru fluid.

 

The problem is that the Subaru CVT HIGH TORQUE fluid only available in a 5 gallon pail and I only need about 6 liters. Besides the 5 gallon one cost about $360 and I don't want the remaining fluid to just sit there and wait for my next fluid change.

 

I would not. The only fluids I mix is vinegar and oil for salads.

How about a Genuine Subaru High Torque CVT Fluid 32 oz. size for $27.32?

32 oz. size

 

How about a Genuine Subaru High Torque CVT Fluid 32 oz. size for $27.32?

32 oz. size

I would not. The only fluids I mix is vinegar and oil for salads.

How about a Genuine Subaru High Torque CVT Fluid 32 oz. size for $27.32?

32 oz. size

A little expensive, but it is better than getting the 5 gallon one from Subaru, thanks for the link.

 

My take is that if a CVT fluid is universal, meaning it's "compatible" with Nissan (push belt), Subaru (pull chain), TR580, TR690, then it's not specifically formulated for the TR690 the way OEM High Torque CVT fluid is.

If you want aftermarket, find a fluid that's designed for a specific transmission only. For example, Motul makes specific High Torque CVT Fluid for Subaru. HT CVTF - Motul

For the TR580 this might be compatible: CVT Model S | No Limits. No Compromises. Pure Performance. | ENEOS Eneos says specifically that this fluid is NOT compatible with the High Torque CVT.

 

Wonder why eneos doesn’t make the high torque version available? The MSDS indicates the JX Nippon Oil company makes it for Subaru... same for the LV version too.

 

Thank you for sharing the msds sheet. Any idea what is the viscosity at 40C of the SOA748V0200 ?
BR
Joe.

 

I don’t think that link is representative of the newer variant of the High Torque fluid in use for vehicles with the FA24 (Ascent, OBXT, LXT…) If it mentioned it in the details, I missed it.

I could understand why you don’t want 5 gallons of fluid sitting around. Perhaps the most prudent course, if you truly wanted a fluid change, would be to pay the dealer at this point. That way it’s done right, or worst case scenario, much easier to point the finger at the service department versus some website.

 

In another thread, the OP says this is for a 3.6, so V0200 is correct. Another option some have apparently had some luck with is getting their dealer to fill quarts from a pail.

 

Don't mix. You'll regret it. So will your wallet.

 

I get a lot of Subarus through here. Quite a few had a fluid change of some sort and a red fluid was in the transmission; universal. The way I knew to check was the temperature and pressure fluctuations. I always change the fluid out as much as possible prior to replacing a valve body to see what change is affected. Some times a fluid change works. Other times, it comes to a VB replacement. 3 TR580 CVTs had to be changed out due to chain/pulley damage. Whether the fluid mix did it, or whether damage was done and a fluid replacement was done to see if there would be improvement is up in the air. I don't always know the background on the cars. My experience with CVTs is when there's a problem it comes down to the fluid, VB or torque converter due to running bad fluid and continued driving with a bad valve body. Those 3 TR580 CVTs are the only 3 CVTs I've ever changed out and they all had red fluid in them. That "universal" crap is no more trustworthy for a CVT than the "universal" HP fluid is for the 4EAT or 5EAT transmissions. It just doesn't perform well. And I still believe that the issues with CVTs can be narrowed down to fluid break down. It is impossible for any fluid to last forever and perform like it should.

I don't risk it. The properties of the fluid are different. The temperature and pressure differences are apparent in data. The transition through the "gear" ratios and torque converter apply are different from one new universal fluid to the proper new fluid. The cost variance between getting the fluid Subaru says to use in the car and getting the fluid that's cheaper is like using low octane fuel in a boosted boxer. You take your chances. Is it worth risking a $5000+ engine over $0.40/gallon at the pump? Is it worth the extra maintenance cost just in keeping the engine running clean? With the CVT replacement cost still high in the thousands, what's a couple bucks a quart for certainty? And I have not seen any data from these companies that show they tested their universal fluid in any Subaru CVT. I think they assume too much and their testing on Nissan, the one with the highest number of CVT fails, has them thinking that its good for all of them.

Subaru put a lot of time in designing these units so their units would last. They are the only company that has made constant changes to the design and operation of the CVT over short periods of time to keep the system economical and functioning. Something comes up after production, they go to work on it. When CVTs were being changed out at the dealer and the old units shipped back for autopsy, they found the mechanical parts to be in spec and the problem was the valve body. So they fixed it. The chain drive on these CVTs is loads better than Nissan, Ford and Dodge. Toyota's CVT is fairly reliable. Chain failures on Subaru CVTs is rare. And if you want to keep it that way, you use what Subaru says to use.

Don't get me wrong. I don't make any money from Subaru by telling readers that they should use specific parts and fluids. I use Royal Purple in engines because I know it's a valuable asset to reduce wear and the engines don't use any oil on it. I tell people to save some cash by getting a battery cable from the local part store rather than pay Subaru $150 for a set. I use aftermarket parts where its suitable and OEM where its needed. The CVT and other transmissions is where it is needed.

I'm kinda dumb when it comes to forums (so I can figure out how to private message some one), can you reply to me privately, I live in the Cibolo area, and looking for some good preventative maitenance work done on my 15 impreza base with 153k milles, thans bro.

 

I have a cautionary video that shows what happens when you mix a lot.

 

Oh, that is just WRONG....

 

@cardoc , have you seen any specific CVT fluid mixes cause problems in the tr690 or tr580? There are more than 1 report of owners using an aftermarket approved CVT fluid without any issue, and unless installed when the unit was built would be considered mixing. I haven't looked in a while but I recall several good reports from owners using Valvoline fluid in their tr-580's,

 

I get a lot of Subarus through here. Quite a few had a fluid change of some sort and a red fluid was in the transmission; universal. The way I knew to check was the temperature and pressure fluctuations. I always change the fluid out as much as possible prior to replacing a valve body to see what change is affected. Some times a fluid change works. Other times, it comes to a VB replacement. 3 TR580 CVTs had to be changed out due to chain/pulley damage. Whether the fluid mix did it, or whether damage was done and a fluid replacement was done to see if there would be improvement is up in the air. I don't always know the background on the cars. My experience with CVTs is when there's a problem it comes down to the fluid, VB or torque converter due to running bad fluid and continued driving with a bad valve body. Those 3 TR580 CVTs are the only 3 CVTs I've ever changed out and they all had red fluid in them. That "universal" crap is no more trustworthy for a CVT than the "universal" HP fluid is for the 4EAT or 5EAT transmissions. It just doesn't perform well. And I still believe that the issues with CVTs can be narrowed down to fluid break down. It is impossible for any fluid to last forever and perform like it should.

I don't risk it. The properties of the fluid are different. The temperature and pressure differences are apparent in data. The transition through the "gear" ratios and torque converter apply are different from one new universal fluid to the proper new fluid. The cost variance between getting the fluid Subaru says to use in the car and getting the fluid that's cheaper is like using low octane fuel in a boosted boxer. You take your chances. Is it worth risking a $5000+ engine over $0.40/gallon at the pump? Is it worth the extra maintenance cost just in keeping the engine running clean? With the CVT replacement cost still high in the thousands, what's a couple bucks a quart for certainty? And I have not seen any data from these companies that show they tested their universal fluid in any Subaru CVT. I think they assume too much and their testing on Nissan, the one with the highest number of CVT fails, has them thinking that its good for all of them.

Subaru put a lot of time in designing these units so their units would last. They are the only company that has made constant changes to the design and operation of the CVT over short periods of time to keep the system economical and functioning. Something comes up after production, they go to work on it. When CVTs were being changed out at the dealer and the old units shipped back for autopsy, they found the mechanical parts to be in spec and the problem was the valve body. So they fixed it. The chain drive on these CVTs is loads better than Nissan, Ford and Dodge. Toyota's CVT is fairly reliable. Chain failures on Subaru CVTs is rare. And if you want to keep it that way, you use what Subaru says to use.

Don't get me wrong. I don't make any money from Subaru by telling readers that they should use specific parts and fluids. I use Royal Purple in engines because I know it's a valuable asset to reduce wear and the engines don't use any oil on it. I tell people to save some cash by getting a battery cable from the local part store rather than pay Subaru $150 for a set. I use aftermarket parts where its suitable and OEM where its needed. The CVT and other transmissions is where it is needed.

 

Thanks for the insight and your experience, @cardoc I see fewer Subaru's than you do, and users like you make this forum a better place.

I'm going to continue to look for experiences with different CVT failures and fluid changes. Sadly, the majority of owners are not servicing their transmission at all. The owners manual doesn't have a clear interval unless towing, and the dealership network generally isn't doing owners many favors with recommendations. What makes matters worse for Subaru owners is when the wrong drain plug was pulled, or the wrong fill hole was used.

I personally feel that servicing the CVT fluid is a good idea if it is done right.

 

The owners manual doesn't have a clear interval unless towing

Canadian owners have posted that their maintenance schedule says 60k CVT fluid change.

 

Given the condition of the fluid that I've seen, I'd say every 60k miles is a good interval for fluid replacement. By then the fluid is brackish brown.

 

I've been debating between 30 and 60K, finally decided to go with a 45K interval.

 

I wouldn't risk mixing fluid like everyone else said. Just not worth trying to save a few$$ and I'm cheap lol

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

The Subaru factory fluid is actually one of the cheaper ones if you find a dealer selling it for msrp or a light discount. I think many owners would consider using a higher quality full synthetic CVT fluid and gear oil if it works correctly in these transaxles.
Similar to how the 3.6l H6 specs conventional oil but you can use synthetic if you want to.

 

The Subaru factory fluid is actually one of the cheaper ones if you find a dealer selling it for msrp or a light discount. I think many owners would consider using a higher quality full synthetic CVT fluid and gear oil if it works correctly in these transaxles.
Similar to how the 3.6l H6 specs conventional oil but you can use synthetic if you want to.

The reason the 3.6 is spec'd for conventional is to keep the ring lands free of oil deposit build up. You can run synthetic, but owners should run conventional on occasion or run an engine cleaner once a year.

 

I agree with @NVdesertrat ; it certainly would simplify any question of warranty if we all use only factory fluids while covered and have all services performed at the dealer. Those owners that are outside of coverage don't have to worry about things like that.

 

Is this the proper CVT fluid for my 2012 2.5L Outback?

Cvtf II Quart Bottles SOA427V1660 | The Subaru Source

SOA427V1660 - Cvtf II Quart Bottles

www.subarusource.com

Seems like a really good price depending upon S&H costs.

 

Yes it appears to be the right one

 

I wouldn't, warranty aspects alone.

 

@joe.shamoun which transmission do you have, TR580 or TR690 and what year is your car?

Curious which non OEM fluid you used that led to slippage?

You can share pics right here in the forum, no need for e-mail. [Control-P]

 

Don't mix.
Proper fluid is cheaper than metal.

 

There's so much that goes into a fluid that looking at cSt is an important but just one aspect of its characteristics. I looked at your PDF and the aftermarket fluids aren't thinner when hot than the genuine Subaru fluid, and aren't thicker when cold, so based on that, their physical properties seem ok, but on the other hand, since Subaru's CVT varies hydraulic pressure on the pulley sheaves, any viscosity different than expected could have an effect. I'm sure the transmission has built in temperature compensation and if the viscosity curve isn't the same then it's possible that the clamping pressures are off one way or another. But different fluids may react to clamping pressure differently as well so to me it's an open question whether or not these aftermarket fluids are truly compatible. But you experienced slippage, and that's the bottom line.

Noticed that Motul Multi and High Torque have almost identical physical specifications yet they are two different formulas (presumably aside from dye) because the flash point is different. Curious what Motul would say.

 

Thank you for your time with your kind reply. Very important to mention, that the slippage was observed when drove tested it at CVTF temp around the 50C when pushed it @ around 80% load not fully. Observed as well that when temp is >75C, No slippage observed when pushed it load @ around 80%. I did not test @ full load with higher temps, as won't be taking any chances on that. As we can see in the comparison table, with the available published data, the High viscosity of the Subi HT at low temp is really unique versus the other CVTFs and looks like its purposes to help with the performance and to enjoy the car without incurring any damage to the Pulleys and inherently to the VB. At the look of the old replaced strainer, and CVTF oil drain at 46Kmiles, CVTF and STRAINER must be replaced depending on users driving style to protect the VB and have some of that new fresh boron healing medicine to the moving parts. The one thing that am not so sure about, and specifically for the TR690, if it is just ok to drain the possible 9 liters out of the total 12.5 liters CVT fluid or to consider flushing the whole system, and if the latter procedure is safe. A month ago when the Subi dealership tech drained my CVTF and replaced the strainer, he was only able to replace 9 Liters out of total of 12.5 Liters. As we know, some of the old CVT fluid were still in the torque converter and the warmer. Let me know what you think about the following plan: 1-Somehow try to source out the unavailable Subi CVTF High Torque stuff to the oil city of Riyadh - the High Torque 20 liters drum. 2- Drive the vehicle for 30 minutes. 3- Let it rest for 1 hour. 4- Unplug the CVTF drain and collect and measure the drained CVTF. 5- Refill with exact amount with new Subi HT. 6- Detach the Warmer CVTF return line to CVT Box and connect line to a 2 liters container; 7- Run the vehicle on idle and see if on Park or on D, to flush a 1.5 to 2 liters through warmer return Line; 8-Shutdown engine; 9- Refill new CVTF with same flushed amount; and so on... Am suspecting that a flushing volume not exceeding the 20% total CVTF capacity will not hurt, especially that vehicle and CVT pulleys on idle mode ?!

 

The SOA part number is from Subaru Of America

The K0 part number is the international part number apparently. I'm sure they're the same thing. In Canada they apparently use the K0 part number also.

Gen 5 - Where to buy CVT High Torque fluid

I was going to drain and fill CVT fluid on 2018 Outback 3.6 It requires 6-7L of Subaru High Torque CVT Fluid K0421Y0700. However, local dealerships (Ontario, Canada) say that Subaru ships it only in 19L jugs and they cannot sell less than the whole jug. Is there a way to buy Subaru CVT fluid...

www.subaruoutback.org

I can't comment on fluid change procedure - I have never done it but I have seen videos where they take the line off the cooler like you're describing, but if you can get the Orange Motul High Torque it's probably fine and I wouldn't worry about the cold viscosity being less than the genuine Subaru. I would worry if the hot viscosity were less than the genuine subaru or the cold viscosity were higher.

Interestingly, Motul Multi CVTF says it's compatible with virtually all CVT fluids including (some are the same fluids said a different way)
SUBARU HIGH TORQUE CVTF-LV (the low viscosity new formula)
SUBARU SOA748V0300
SUBARU I-CVTF FG
SUBARU ECVT
SUBARU LINEARTRONIC CHAIN CVT AND CVT II FLUID
SUBARU LINEARTRONIC HIGH TORQUE (HT) CVT FLUID
SUBARU CV30
SUBARU K0421Y0700
SUBARU LINEARTRONIC CHAIN CVT 3 FLUID
SUBARU CVT III FLUID
SUBARU NS-2
SUBARU LINEARTRONIC CVTF
SUBARU K0425Y0710
SUBARU CVT TR580
SUBARU CVT TR690
SUBARU ICVTF
SUBARU HIGH TORQUE CVT
SUBARU LINEARTRONIC II
SUBARU K0425Y0711

This does not make me confident.

Motul - Oils and lubricants Products

Discover our lubricants and oils for cars, motorcycle, scooter, marine, leisure, commercial vehicles, gardening and many more

www.motul.com

 

Transmission fluid, like motor oil can be assayed at a petroleum lab.
For a nominal service fee you can get a report of what's in it, and what doesn't belong, and why.
If you request a sample kit, they will sent all you need to complete it.
Mixing fluids could cause an additive reaction making the fluid break,
dissolving or participating additives out , water's the usual culprit.

 

I agree, I'd only be concerned if the 40C viscosity of the Motul fluid was higher than the OE Subaru fluid. I doubt you can blame any unusual behavior on a lower 40C viscosity - just doesn't make sense. BTW, maybe I missed it somewhere, but what is your source for the 40C viscosity of Subaru's HT-CVT fluid?

If accurate, I'd suspect the only reason that Subaru's 40C viscosity is higher is that the viscosity index of the Subaru fluid is significantly lower than the Motul fluid. The 2 Motul fluids only differ by 5 VI points, and show the same 40/100C numbers, so the difference must be quite a bit more than that. Generally speaking, high VI is a desirable property, and I'd expect that would apply here since it's clear that Subaru has designed the CVT-equipped vehicles to warm that fluid up (from a cold start) as fast as possible.

 

Subaru has designed the CVT-equipped vehicles to warm that fluid up (from a cold start) as fast as possible.

Not any more, which is likely part of why it's disastrous to use other fluids in the new TR690's. The changes in clamping pressures, the actual changes to the chains, etc, are also a part of the reasons.

My Ascent, the new OBXT's and OBW, all actively cool the fluid, all the time, through the front cooling radiator. I've literally been at 165° off roading in the desert before tackling crazy stuff, and 130's-160's in winter.

 

@40C viscosity of CVTF Motul Multi differed by almost 40% of the OEM CVTF-HT. This would impact shear stress force, fluid flow, fluid pressure (afffecting perhaps clamping) and hence fluid pressure sensor feedback to TCU which has coordinate between primary and secondary elements. And the discussion Grp is right, not only the visco is the culprit of my observed chain slippage. Theoretically, seems like the OEM CVTF HT additives are up to <30%, with ZDDP and Boron, improving friction between chain and pulley. I doubt the Motul Multi has same recipe and this is why Motul has the HT product. Let me know your thoughts please