My first post here. Warning, tedium ahead! I did a search for a possible solution to the issue I was having with my power liftgate on my brand new 2019 Ouback. I noticed lots of posts here and some had general reference to cold weather as a possible factor. That was the issue with mine. The liftgate would open ever so slightly when the temps were below around 35 degrees then it would beep three times, and close. Once it warmed to above 40 to 45, it worked fine. I took it in to the dealer to have it looked at and they reset the computer and said it was fixed. It wasn't. The dealer is down the hill from where we live, where it is much warmer than our mountain residence so they could not duplicate the problem. However I showed them a video I took of the liftgate not working and they concurred it was not user error but indeed a malfunction. However, as mentioned, they thought a reset would fix it. So, here I was, an hour and half away from the dealer, not wanting to take it back down there for another "reset" and pat on the head, knowing they couldn't duplicate it. So I did what I do. I obsessed. I learned via the manual that the three quick beeps means that the gate senses resistance (hitting something). It is supposed to stop, beep three times quickly, and close. I duplicated this when the temps warmed up and the gate was functioning by standing in front of the gate, letting it hit me after it was barely opened. It did exactly what it was supposed to, it stopped, beeped three times and closed. My conclusion, the gate feels undo resistance when the temps are cold. So first I sprayed everything with a light silicone lubricant. Hinges, pistons, a little on the motor itself, and on the latch. Next morning, 22 degrees F (-5 degrees C) the problem still existed despite lubricant. Opens slightly, stops, (sensing resistance) beeps three times, closes. So, now, I thought, it's time to introduce temperature to the situation. I used a hair dryer to heat up the motor. Not a lot of heat, just to get it up to 50 degrees or so. I didn't want to melt or warp anything. This did not fix it. Now I'm looking at the gas charged pistons. I really did not want to heat those up much as they can explode if over heated. So I just warmed them with the hair dryer to the point that they were warm to the touch, not hot. Ta da! It worked. I let things cool again, didn't work, warmed with hair dryer second time, worked. I did this three times (remember I said I was obsessed) and all three times warming the gas charged pistons solved the issue. Anyway, I hope this helps the one person who endured all these words to get to one possible solution. But also a question: Does anyone have a suggestion on how to resolve this? Have the dealer put in new pistons hoping they're less resistant? Open the liftgate using the button on the liftgate itself through the rest of the cold season (this works) then hope that a warm season of use will "relax" the pistons? Thanks in advance for any ideas!
sellersdave
sellersdave,
You say the gate always opens if you use the button on the lift gate but not when using the other buttons (I assume you mean the Key Fob Button or Rear Gate button on the dash). If warming the gas lift pistons works, how does pressing the open button on the rear gate warm up the gas pistons?
The warming is a clue but warming only the pistons would not be the fix if you can open with the gate button without any warming. Replacing the lift pistons may fix the problem but a failure would be rare on a new car (although it could happen) and would not explain why the rear gate open button works.
I think a more likely cause of the failure is freezing moisture / humidity or "gluing" dirt on the gasket at the sides of the gate. Warming the gas pistons would also warm that gasket and both loosen the grip between the gasket and the body of the car as well as making the gasket more flexible. Similarly, pulling up on the rear gate open button, even slightly, would serve to loosen the grip when using the rear gate button to open.
While I have not seen this happen yet on my 2019, I have seen it very often on my 2010 Outback. In cold humid weather or after a rainy period, the rear gate (a non-powered version) can become very hard to open. I have to apply considerable force a time or two when pressing the rear gate open button and pulling the gate open.
A couple of things that may help for you is to keep the body area of the rear gate scrupulously clean, apply a fresh car wax coating there, and clean up and dry the gasket material. I wipe my rear gate gasket periodically (when it starts acting up) with a very mild soap and water cleaning followed by a quick wipe with a cloth slightly dampened with isopropyl alcohol. (Don't use an oil-based cleaner or oil-based gasket treatment. They can get even gummier in wet weather and cause even more sticking. You could also consider a very light dusting of the gasket itself with a dry release material like talc or similar.)
John
I think you have identified the mechanism of the failure to open but do not think you have found the actual root cause. The failure is caused by too much force being needed to open the gate. The motor is sensing the extra force and fooled into thinking there is a blockage, making it reverse.
You say the gate always opens if you use the button on the lift gate but not when using the other buttons (I assume you mean the Key Fob Button or Rear Gate button on the dash). If warming the gas lift pistons works, how does pressing the open button on the rear gate warm up the gas pistons?
The warming is a clue but warming only the pistons would not be the fix if you can open with the gate button without any warming. Replacing the lift pistons may fix the problem but a failure would be rare on a new car (although it could happen) and would not explain why the rear gate open button works.
I think a more likely cause of the failure is freezing moisture / humidity or "gluing" dirt on the gasket at the sides of the gate. Warming the gas pistons would also warm that gasket and both loosen the grip between the gasket and the body of the car as well as making the gasket more flexible. Similarly, pulling up on the rear gate open button, even slightly, would serve to loosen the grip when using the rear gate button to open.
While I have not seen this happen yet on my 2019, I have seen it very often on my 2010 Outback. In cold humid weather or after a rainy period, the rear gate (a non-powered version) can become very hard to open. I have to apply considerable force a time or two when pressing the rear gate open button and pulling the gate open.
A couple of things that may help for you is to keep the body area of the rear gate scrupulously clean, apply a fresh car wax coating there, and clean up and dry the gasket material. I wipe my rear gate gasket periodically (when it starts acting up) with a very mild soap and water cleaning followed by a quick wipe with a cloth slightly dampened with isopropyl alcohol. (Don't use an oil-based cleaner or oil-based gasket treatment. They can get even gummier in wet weather and cause even more sticking. You could also consider a very light dusting of the gasket itself with a dry release material like talc or similar.)
John
Hi John, Thanks for taking the time to respond. Good point regarding the button on the hatch itself vs. the fob or lower left dashboard button. I didn't go into the necessary detail regarding the difference. When I press the button on the liftgate itself, I lift up on the gate to help it along, especially past that area where it usually gets hung up. If I simply press the button on the liftgate quickly without helping the gate along, it does the same thing as when I press the fob button or dash button. It opens slightly, senses resistance and then stops, beeps three times and closes. Hope that clarifies. I do get that grabby rubber door seal during warm days, night freezes on my truck (especially if I leave snow on the roof) so I'm very familiar with what you pointed out. However, in this case I do not think that is the issue because the gate does open past the point where there is a gap between the rubber hatch seal (or gasket) and the car itself. My bad for not explaining it in better detail. I like your idea of wax as a deterrent for moisture creating a frozen seal. I usually do wax that area as well as door jambs when I wax the whole car but I'll be more vigilant on this car. First car I've owned with a PLG. Dave
It sounds like you have found the most likely cause. That being the gas shocks for the gate.
As stated, being a new car failure is rare however when I was a tech in 2015 I had a brand new outback with a bad rear strut. The thing was gushing fluid. Looked like it had 100k+ miles on it and it had like 50 miles on it lol. Although rare it does happen. That thing was leaking all over the ground.
Definitely sounds like there is a tight spot in the shocks that gets resolved when warm. It definitely may get fixed during one warm season but I would just have them change the shocks and see what happens. Every part of the car is designed to work in all conditions so they may just be defective. Although I would definitely take another video to show them exactly what you did.
As far as the gasket goes, I am entirely familiar with this. Especially on doors and non power gates. Our fix would be to make sure its completely dry and clean. And then use a very thin layer of silicone paste. You can also use the silicone spray however I dont believe itll last as long. The silicone keeps the moisture out of the seals thus keeping them from freezing/sticking.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
As stated, being a new car failure is rare however when I was a tech in 2015 I had a brand new outback with a bad rear strut. The thing was gushing fluid. Looked like it had 100k+ miles on it and it had like 50 miles on it lol. Although rare it does happen. That thing was leaking all over the ground.
Definitely sounds like there is a tight spot in the shocks that gets resolved when warm. It definitely may get fixed during one warm season but I would just have them change the shocks and see what happens. Every part of the car is designed to work in all conditions so they may just be defective. Although I would definitely take another video to show them exactly what you did.
As far as the gasket goes, I am entirely familiar with this. Especially on doors and non power gates. Our fix would be to make sure its completely dry and clean. And then use a very thin layer of silicone paste. You can also use the silicone spray however I dont believe itll last as long. The silicone keeps the moisture out of the seals thus keeping them from freezing/sticking.
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Thanks for the response, mprosco91. I cleaned the gasket when I washed the car today and coated it with a light coat of silicone spray on a damp rag. Like you, I do not think this is the issue for the reasons previously mentioned but happy to double confirm that a sticky frozen gasket is indeed NOT the cause. I will take your advice and have the gas charged pistons or struts replaced. My local service/dealer will be happy to do that for me. I'll post a final follow up if that fixes it. I sure hope it does. I too believe that the system, like more important elements on a Subaru, are designed to operate in a wide range of temperatures and circumstances, and if they don't work it can be explained by a weak link or defective component. We'll see! Dave
Dave,
Based on your added information and descriptions (thanks!), I think your assessment is likely correct. You may have a bad, or at least weak, lift strut(s).
If replacing one or both lift struts does not fix the problem, then the next likely suspects will be a binding motor lift assembly or simply a weak drive motor / lift spring. Since you have already tried lubricating the lift assembly, if new struts don't fix it, maybe the drive motor should be replaced next. (I have not looked at the parts diagrams; the motor and lift spring assembly may be the smallest unit that can be replaced.)
Good luck. let us know what works after you get it completely sorted out.
John
Based on your added information and descriptions (thanks!), I think your assessment is likely correct. You may have a bad, or at least weak, lift strut(s).
If replacing one or both lift struts does not fix the problem, then the next likely suspects will be a binding motor lift assembly or simply a weak drive motor / lift spring. Since you have already tried lubricating the lift assembly, if new struts don't fix it, maybe the drive motor should be replaced next. (I have not looked at the parts diagrams; the motor and lift spring assembly may be the smallest unit that can be replaced.)
Good luck. let us know what works after you get it completely sorted out.
John
This is an example of why, despite popular opinion, it's useful to stay awake in high-school science. Do you remember the ideal gas law?
PV = nRT
This says that if the number of gas molecules
and volume (V) of a gas is the same, then pressure (P) is proportional to temperature (T). R is a constant.
Increasing T by warming up the gas struts increases P inside them, so they try to extend the strut (increase V) harder. This is also why you want to be careful about not heating them too much!
In your case n is probably smaller than it should be (some gas has escaped or not enough was ever there). In other words, one or both struts is probably defective.
Good job troubleshooting! :29:
PV = nRT
This says that if the number of gas molecules
and volume (V) of a gas is the same, then pressure (P) is proportional to temperature (T). R is a constant. Increasing T by warming up the gas struts increases P inside them, so they try to extend the strut (increase V) harder. This is also why you want to be careful about not heating them too much!
In your case n is probably smaller than it should be (some gas has escaped or not enough was ever there). In other words, one or both struts is probably defective.
Good job troubleshooting! :29:
At least I have the service manager involved and he knows that it's not user error. He corresponded today saying he's getting the field engineer involved. Ultimately this is kind of a silly thing as a power liftgate not exactly critical to car's ability to get you around. It's really the fact that it's brand new and not fully functional that makes it kind of a nuisance. And yes, everyone agrees, especially the service manager, that 40 degrees is not cold enough to compromise any function on any car, let alone a Subaru!
The saga continues. But has taken a turn for the worse. The service department said that if they can not duplicate the problem, they can not fix it. While I do understand the predicament they're in, the car has less than a thousand miles and a lift gate won't operate below around 40 degrees so essentially it's a brand new car with an problem that can not be fixed (dealer is in warmer climate where daily low temps are now above 40). So, I, the guy who spent 35k on a new car, am in a predicament too. My warranty is worthless until next winter when their low temps, at the dealership, drop and they can duplicate the problem. They will not accept video of the problem to prove that the problem exists and won't agree to replace the liftgate motor to see if that will fix it because they said that Subaru will not accept the warranty claim unless a tech verifies the problem. I get all of that in principle but.......who is the guy with new car and a written promise to fix defects? If I were Subaru and had a customer who just bought his 5th new Subaru, I'd send a tech up to my house in the mountains with a loaner vehicle to verify the problem, apologize for the two 150 mile rt trips I had to make to "fix" it, leave me a loaner and I'd be happy to return the loaner when they do what they think they need to do to fix it. I suggested this (politely) to my dealer service department and they said, "we don't really do things like that." But rather than describe my general disappointment on this issue on this forum, I will ask a question to potentially help in resolving this. Does anyone know if there is way to get in touch with Subaru of America to explain to them that this is my 5th Subaru (which they can verify) and hopefully have them make suggestion to the dealer on how to get my "case" resolved? As mentioned earlier, I feel somewhat silly worrying about something so trivial as a power liftgate not operating at temps below 40 degrees but with a brand new car, even silly things like this can drive you nuts.
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