That sounds bad. Please let us know what they find.

 

Sounds like a problem with the torque converter lockup clutch. At least the dealer should have no trouble reproducting the problem.

 

I really hope that this is not the case of draining transmission oil instead of engine oil.:frown2:

 

Well, the technician was bit baffled by the description so he asked me to duplicate it for him, and within first 100m, he said yup, that's not right, they believe it may be the pulleys' issue not expanding shrinking smoothly, so the whole transmission is getting replaced.

I'll double check if the torque converter is getting replace too.

 

...so the whole transmission is getting replaced.

I'll double check if the torque converter is getting replace too.

Replacing a transmission on a car that new? Wow. Hope this is a one time factory f*ck up and not something systemic.

 

Also, you performed the first oil change at 3000km? Why does my maintenance schedule at mysubaru.com call for oil changes every 6000 miles? I also have a 2017 Outback Limited. It's a 3.6R. Perhaps you have the 2.5, and it needs more frequent changes?

 

Perhaps you have the 2.5, and it needs more frequent changes?

Nope. Subaru's current recommended service interval is 6,000 miles (10,000 km) for all Legacy/Outback models since MY 2015. It's right there in the Subaru Warranty & Maintenance Guide you receive with every new vehicle.

 

Money Grab

My dealer's maintenance schedule is significantly more aggressive than SOA. Can't believe that it's anything but a way to increase profits. I think they bank on customers not reading the SOA maintenance schedule, but instead reading the "official" dealer schedule included with the sales paperwork. Bugs me.

 

My dealer's maintenance schedule is significantly more aggressive than SOA. Can't believe that it's anything but a way to increase profits. I think they bank on customers not reading the SOA maintenance schedule, but instead reading the "official" dealer schedule included with the sales paperwork. Bugs me.

I did my oil change after break in period, its a habit, not saying I know more than Subaru engineers, but from my work experience you rather change more often than not often enough, yes Subaru does recommend pretty long service interval compare to what we are used to, yes oil has improved a lot in last 10 years, but it's a cheap insurance as I like to keep my cars in the best condition for as long as I can.

OP, Glad you seem to be getting a minimal hassle transmission replacement to make this right, did the dealer put you into a loaner car? Its bad luck for sure to get a new car that had a factory defect, its rare around here.

This one is making me bit frustrated, they mention they can provide a loaner but I have to pay daily rental fee, so they are asking me to pay for alternative mode of transportation on a $40k + brand new car that has 3000km on it and requires new transmission due to manufacturing defects.

I did bring this up to Subaru Canada customer service rep, she seems to be understanding enough that's trying to waive the fees.

 

Not knocking anyone but I always find it interesting when people spend $200 on family cell phone plan, $250 on cable TV with 8 cable boxes, eating out several times per week, you get the picture. But when it comes time for oil changes in a 30-$40,000 car, they push it to the engineering limit. Oil changes have been and always will be the absolute cheapest and simultaneously the most effective maintenance you can do on your car. If there is ANYWHERE you want to try and save money, this is not the place. $15 for the oil and $5 for the filter, that's 20 bucks (assuming you do it yourself) . Its a pie of pizza. If you want to save some money, convert your old lights in your home to LED. That will probably save you $100/year. 3000 mile oil change interval is fair. Should be more often with turbo, and more often in heavy start stop environments. Synthetic oil is recommended for extremes like very hot (South Florida) very cold (Montana) or racing environments where regular oil cannot withstand 10,000 RPM or a 6000 supercharged engine. In every other environment, conventional oil if more than adequate. The Synthetic oil companies (Amsoil etc) will tell you, you can go 10k miles with their oil. This is as much marketing nonsense as all the "Tune Up In a Bottle" items being sold at Walmart and Advanced Auto etc.. The manufacturers simply cannot prove it but we are asked to believe it. Of course they will show a video that they claim is proof, but this is done in a controlled environment. Remember, there were videos showing that 9/11 did not happen. I will take one less pie of pizza per year and one more oil change any day.

 

3000 mile oil change interval is fair.

How did you come by this number? Why 3,000? If Subaru suggested 12,000 intervals would you simply cut that in half and say 6,000 is better? If lower is better, why not 2,500 miles, or 1,000 miles? Better yet, why not rig up a total-loss oiling system?

It's not just about cost, it's about practicality. If I were to follow a 3,000 interval, I'd be changing my oil every six weeks. Even at 6,000 intervals, every three months seems like I'm constantly changing the oil. My diesel VW calls for 10,000 intervals and I've had zero issues. Surf the TDI forums and you've got people that religiously send oil samples to Blackstone Labs for testing and they run 15,000 oil change intervals.

 

OP, Glad you seem to be getting a minimal hassle transmission replacement to make this right, did the dealer put you into a loaner car? Its bad luck for sure to get a new car that had a factory defect, its rare around here.

 

I am getting a new nav/radio put in my OB with only 6,000 miles. It does make you wonder about reliability a bit.

 

If you change the oil every three months you are not "constantly" changing the oil. Its probably something that you hate doing that's why you feel you are "constantly" doing it. Its "cool" that Blackstone can tell you what is in your oil. Personally, If I was going to buy a car with a lot of miles on it, I would probably send a sample to Blackstone to see what they find BEFORE I bought it. Makes sense. 10 and 15k oil intervals are nuts. What's the point? It does not cost all that much to do an oil change. And as far as time, if you are efficient, you are looking at 20 minutes. $15 and 20 minutes (every 6 weeks) in exchange for piece of mind? This is all predicated on owning the car. If I was leasing it I would not be so meticulous as leasing is nothing more than a long term rental. BTW, an oil change every 6 weeks means you are spending $0.47/day ( that's 47 cents per day) on proper oil changes. So we choose to save the $0.47 and spend $3.50 for a cup of coffee in Starbucks. Brilliant. The same people try and keep their car battery for 12 years when its a known fact that 50% of the life of lead acid batteries is gone after 5 years. I think as intelligent consumers, we need to question what we read. Some new cars don't have a dipstick to check oil levels, does that mean its not important to check the level? Is ethanol in gasoline good for us or does it possibly put more money in Exxon pockets? Be very analytical when you read all this nonsense. Ask the hard questions.

 

BTW, an oil change every 6 weeks means you are spending $0.47/day ( that's 47 cents per day) on proper oil changes. .

Curious where you get 47 cents per day.
Synthetic oil alone is 62 cents per day if you run it 6 weeks.
Add filter and the cost goes up to almost 80 cents.
If you want people to be analytical, use the right data.

 

I said if you do it yourself and you don't use synthetic. There are 42 days in a 6 week period. It cost me $20 to do an oil change with filter. Not trying to be difficult. Its just funny how people push the engineering limits on the second most expensive thing they will buy in their life over just a few dollars.

 

Actually, you did not say "and you don't use synthetic".
But you did mention a "proper oil change" and pondered why people push engineering limits.
Not using synthetic on a 2.5 Subaru is pushing the engineering limits.
It is also not a proper oil change.

 

that's a rental, not a loaner

 

Well, wrong choice of wording, initially I asked if I'll be provided a loaner, they said yes, but as it's getting progressively worse, I called back and see if I can bring the car in earlier and get the loaner, they mention I have to pay for the car, which annoys me a bit.

 

gotcha - maybe they'll reimburse you as you mentioned.

 

I think chigga got what I was saying. More often is better than less often. I think we are all in agreement, it can only help. Yes, I do call 10 and 15 k intervals engineering limits. Semi trucks have ridiculous oil change intervals because they use 15 gallons (yes gallons) of oil.

 

Zoulas,
I'm not sure where you get your "data" from, but if there is a Semi Truck engine that takes 15 gallons of lubrication oil, I would like you to point it out.
Oil capacity on Paccar, Detroit, Volvo, Cummins range from 9.5 to 14 gallons. Most are 10 to 10.5 gallons, with the Cummins 15 liter Diesel at the high end, requiring 14 gallons.
You're hyperbole and general statements presented as facts reduce your credibility substantially.

 

Wow, he was way off, an entire gallon. I think most people got the point that semis have a lot of oil in their sump as compared to automobiles.

 

Doesn't look like they'll provide a loaner or re-imburse rental, quite disappointed with Subaru of Canada.

 

It is not Subaru of Canada it is a dealer. At Subaru of Mississauga I got a loaner (not a rental) for a much lesser thing than your transmission.
Which dealer you went to?.

 

Yup, and other differences as well, as in at least two oil filters, one being centrifugal.
Hyperbole is still hyperbole, passed off as facts.

 

mikelipke

I think you completely missed the point.

What I was saying is that Semi truck have a long oil change interval because of the volume of oil they take. If my statement of 15 gallons is really 14 gallons as you pointed out it does not change the above mentioned fact.

If you have a 4 cylinder Toyota and a 4 cylinder Subaru (both non turbo and similar age) and they both take 5 quarts of oil (conventional) , the oil change interval should be close to the same. If one manufacturer claims 6k miles and the other says 3k miles I would strongly question the validity of the one claiming 6k.

Typically in the world, to get something you have to give up something. Semi trucks get a higher (longer) oil change interval for the sole reason of additional volume of oil they have over a typical 4 cylinder passenger car.

Now whether the semi trucks take 12,13,14,or 15 gallons is not the arguments I am trying to make.

 

Typically in the world, to get something you have to give up something. Semi trucks get a higher (longer) oil change interval for the sole reason of additional volume of oil they have over a typical 4 cylinder passenger car.

Oil volume is not the "sole" reason for oil change intervals.

If it were, how do you explain my recently departed VW TDi (2.0) which had a oil capacity of 5 qts, and an oil change interval of 10,000 miles. VW strongly encouraged NOT changing the oil BEFORE reaching 10k miles, and both VW dealers I dealt with used 10k on the window sticker.

I believe many factors influence oil change intervals. Engine design, advances in oil technology, types of engines (diesel, gas, air-cooled, two-stroke) filtering design, driving characteristics, (big rigs typically don't do short trips without warming up to operating temps).

 

^^^ yeah, clearly a large-displacement engine has scaled-up bearing surfaces and more cylinder wall area, more heat to shed, less tolerant of downtime for service, etc.

but some manufacturers may suggest longer change intervals for perceived marketing reasons; "we're Green and don't waste oil" or "We have less required service than the other guys", etc.


I admit I change oil too often, I also recall some old Consumers Union study involving taxi cabs - they even tore down engines and checked wear. Seemed like oil lasted a VERY long time. (but, there's an argument cabs aren't a good comparison with typical DDs ???)

Blackstone and other measurement methods would be great for all of us - too bad it costs as much as an oil change lol!

 

Think about it: Motortrend reviews cars and lists specs. Consumers read the reviews and specs and see that brand A has an interval of 6k, Brand B has an interval of 3k. I can definitely see that a lot of people would lean towards Brand A (everything else being the same). They come to such conclusions as Save Time, Save Money, etc. And they would be totally right except for the fact that now it seems completely possible that the longer oil change interval is a marketing gimmick and not technically meaningful. I read recently that the amount of cup holders significantly influences people decision into what car to get. So to me it makes perfect sense that manufacturers would tend to want to increase the oil change interval number. Think out it: if something were to happen to your engine you cannot possibly prove it was due to the longer oil change interval . That's why I mentioned earlier in the thread as an educated consumer we need to ask the tough questions. When you buy a car, the dealer tells you how good it is. Then two years later the same dealer calls you and tells you they can get you a better deal on another car. Its all marketing.

 

... now it seems completely possible that the longer oil change interval is a marketing gimmick and not technically meaningful.

Or it could just as easily be the other way around: The manufacturer recommends an unnecessarily short maintenance interval. After all, it's not likely to hurt anything except the customer's wallet, and it helps keep the dealer's service bays busy with profitable work.

 

Oils change intervals are longer today because of higher quality oils and engines that have better seals so contaminates do not enter the oil and break it down. My GM cars had a oil life indicator. I read somewhere that a GM engineer said that this was a pretty accurate representation of when you should change your oil. It would monitor how much stop and go, how much highway, and how much you had you foot into it, and temperature it was operated in. I had many oil changes where it would say 30% life left and it was 10,000 since the last change. And that was on plain oil so I am sure that 6000 on synthetic oil should be no problem what so ever.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Very good feedback from everyone. This turned into a cool thread although it not longer has anything to do with " Transmission slips/shudder/shakes" LOL.

 

That's it - 2.5 or 3.6? Campy or Shimano? Isnt this a tranny thread?

 

I will once the car is fixed and I can get some information on what went wrong.

In the mean time, they gave me a Chevy Trax, it's ummmmm interesting, that's the best compliment I can give for the Trax.

 

Got the car back on Saturday, it was 1.5 day(s) job, I was just happy to have the car back as the rental they gave me was another story (anyone remember the Seinfeld episode about the stinky car?), anyways, the car drives normal and I noticed the car drives different, it's possibly due to the re-set of the computer or it's possible that the previous transmission had defect very early on but wasn't caught on.

Basically when accelerating, I often notice the car would "shift" but at higher rpm, so it would go to 2.5k rpm, then drops rpm, build up rpm, then drops, I chuck it up as it's trying to act like a normal automatic so didn't give it too much thought, but now it tries to maintain stable rpm as much as possible, which helps with mpg.

On the cause of the transmission woes, the technician mention it's possible due to pulley malfunction, that means the pulleys can't change diameter fast enough, as to how it got to that, they are not sure since Subaru recommend change the whole transmission because it's a sealed unit.

They were able to resolve the rental/loaner as well, I was bit disappointed at first but I'm just glad to have the car back in good working order.

 

Got the car back on Saturday, it was 1.5 day(s) job, I was just happy to have the car back as the rental they gave me was another story (anyone remember the Seinfeld episode about the stinky car?), anyways, the car drives normal and I noticed the car drives different, it's possibly due to the re-set of the computer or it's possible that the previous transmission had defect very early on but wasn't caught on.



Basically when accelerating, I often notice the car would "shift" but at higher rpm, so it would go to 2.5k rpm, then drops rpm, build up rpm, then drops, I chuck it up as it's trying to act like a normal automatic so didn't give it too much thought, but now it tries to maintain stable rpm as much as possible, which helps with mpg.



On the cause of the transmission woes, the technician mention it's possible due to pulley malfunction, that means the pulleys can't change diameter fast enough, as to how it got to that, they are not sure since Subaru recommend change the whole transmission because it's a sealed unit.



They were able to resolve the rental/loaner as well, I was bit disappointed at first but I'm just glad to have the car back in good working order.

My wife's and my transmissions shift with steps. On occasion I can press the gas just right and the engine rpms will stay constant and the speed will climb without any "shifting" but it is hard to get it to do it on command. When I first drove a Honda CVT years ago theirs would jump to optimal RPMs and stay there no matter how you drove it. But on here there are many threads that indicate that Subaru put artificial shift points because the general public does not like the constant drone of an engine at one RPM. From what I read on here, your new tranny is not the norm and everyone has shift points.

 

Great, and thanks for the update.
"All's well that ends well"

 

Just apply the throttle gently and the vehicle will accelerate at a steady pace without feeling any fake shift points. As I said many times I never feel a fake shiftpoints and the CVT is programmed to give you the optimum HP @ optimum transmission point.

Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul!?

 

Just apply the throttle gently and the vehicle will accelerate at a steady pace without feeling any fake shift points. As I said many times I never feel a fake shiftpoints and the CVT is programmed to give you the optimum HP @ optimum transmission point.

https://youtu.be/X5p1GVGiPYY

Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul![emoji4]

Right, I think being gentle on the the throttle is when I don't feel the shift points but if I drive like that in traffic I will feel the wrath of all the other drivers on the road as they flip me the bird as they pass me for driving like a 90 year old. But if I press any harder on the throttle then you feel shift points 100% of the time so basically I feel shift points all the time.