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Are Brakes DIY?

25K views 49 replies 24 participants last post by  AvidHiker  
#1 ·
Good morning everyone. Brakes have been a discussion before, but I wasn't finding anything on here limited to the Gen 5 world. I have a 2015 OB premium. Are brakes something that can easily be a DIY project? I have never done brakes before. But I'm not a complete idiot. The shop this weekend quoted me $580 to do all four. Beyond this, if the generally consensus is that I should give it a shot, is the project just pads or routers included?

Other than standard hand tools, are there any unique tools that are required (or desirable)?

Thank you in advance for your advice.
 
#2 ·
I have always done my own brakes as they normally are not that difficult. I would make sure you completely understand what you are doing first though, and be especially mindful of the rear calipers. On most cars (have not changed them on the Subaru yet) you need to ROTATE the piston back in and not push it in. The front can be pushed in. I know someone who totaled his VW Passat because he pushed the rear piston back in and didn't realize his mistake until after it was too late.
 
#3 ·
Brakes are very definitely a DIY item even for someone who has never worked on a car before. And it is even easier now that most cars have disc brakes on all four corners. Drum brakes are a little bit more of a challenge but still easy.
There are a lot of YouTube videos showing step-by-step instructions on how to do this.
If you are still nervous about doing it yourself, find a friend who has done brakes before and ask him/her to show you the first time. I'm pretty sure you'll never take you car to a mechanic for just a pad change again.
In general you will not need any special tools. Just the normal wrenches, sockets screwdrivers and perhaps a C-clamp.
 
#9 ·
Wow, lots of comments from folks that don't appear to have done the job yet on a Gen 5. ;)

...In general you will not need any special tools. Just the normal wrenches, sockets screwdrivers and perhaps a C-clamp.
Don't think this applies to the Gen 5 brakes. You need a special tool and you need to know how to handle the EPB system (new implementation for Gen 5).
 
#4 ·
brake systems have a lot of little areas that occasionally need attention - and for that reason I now think they may be a great DIY system to maintain. I think it may be too easy for some shops to just pad slap the car and ignore bleeding or inspecting and lubing the rest of the system. In the far past, I thought they were intimidating due to their safety importance, but after educating my self and asking questions, I now don't find much of that system that I wouldn't tackle. Also, working on the brakes gives you chance to inspect other systems near-by and even rotate the tires. You will also be more familiar with the streucture of the hub area, that will help you when it's time to swap axles or even struts.

nowadays, there are even quite good youtube videos to help with a lot of service areas on cars - brransmobile and ericthecarguy come to mind.
 
#6 ·
unless you've been really rough on your car you rotors should be ok. If you don't have one, a torque wrench is a really good idea when wrenching on your car. There is a lot of peace-of-mind that comes with knowing that things are appropriately tight.

My other advice would be get a big piece of cardboard to put things on. Keep a sharpie nearby. take notes if you need to. label a part if you think you'll forget what to do with it. keep things organized.

Most importantly, take your time. If this is your first project like this it will not always go as planned. A bolt will be stuck, or something won't make sense for a little bit. Walk away from the car for a little bit to clear your head. My worst wrenching mistakes (and most minor injuries) come when you're frustrated. Have confidence that you can get it done, and give yourself more time than you think you need the first few times.
 
#7 ·
I got away with just a pad replacement at 60k with the help of a very experienced home mechanic because my rotors were in excellent shape (they should be checked to ensure they meet the minimum thickness). This job required a piston winder tool kit and you should also have a copy of the FSM to handle the EPB and to make sure you don't screw anything up. He initially thought this would be an easy job, but definitely had some difficulty here and there, so I don't think I'd recommend this job to a newbie. There are multiple threads covering this topic in the Gen 5 forum.

Example (see page 5, post 48): https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/138-gen-5-2015-2019/275762-diy-brake-pads-2015-a.html

Guide with pics (he didn't agree with some of these brake instructions, but they supposedly get the job done):
https://www.paulstravelpictures.com...tures.com/Articles/Subaru-Outback-Common-Problems-Repair-Maintenance-Guides.htm
 
#10 ·
It's the one job you should do yourself. It's easy and you get far superior long term service because you can choose data driven approaches over archaic one-size-fits all approaches used my most shops and suggested by online commentary.

1. Replace the pads only - check them when rotating tires/swapping winter/summer wheels. Replace in a timely fashion, follow these directions and the calipers and rotors of an average daily driver will last the life of the vehicle.

2. Clean and regrease the slides with Sil-Glyde or equivalent high grade lubricant.
Check them often depending on vehicle condition and use - I'd suggest roughly 1 per year at tire rotations or winter tire swaps, particularly on older vehicles, prior unknown history, harsh use/winter chemicals/etc. It takes a couple minutes to carry a cloth and grease out while I rotate/swap tires. No brainer decision for nearly 100% flawless brake performance and never needing to replace rotors or calipers for 300,000 miles.

This is the predominant failure mode of brakes and is often ignored. If you DIY you can do this yourself and avoid that whole brake/rotor/caliper replacement racket and just replace pads and brake fluid for 300,000 miles with zero failures. Win-Win.

If the slide bushings are loose or have seen mixed grease (previous owners, shops, etc) applications - replace them.

3. Replace pad clips with OEM with any notable deformation/build up/roughness on the surface, or at 100k-150k, prior unknown maintenance/history, etc. These can get build up, corrosion, or deformed with multiple pad changes and hang pads. I've seen aftermarkets rust so I'd favor OEM.

4. Do steps 1-3 and the calipers and rotors will last the life of the vehicle. I don't even think about 300,000 mile Subaru calipers and rotors.
 
#11 ·
the thing the hangs DIY brake jobs up = rust. rust makes for swearing. so I guess that would depend on your particular 2015.

at this time of year one maybe happier in a heated garage with a torch on a lift.
 
#12 ·
You guys (and girls) are awesome. I'm going to track down a couple applicable youtube videos and begin planning this out for a lazy Saturday when I'm not rushed. Thankfully, even though this is Wisconsin, I have a heated garage. That will also be the perfect venue to bribe a knowledgeable friend of mine with pizza & beer to oversee my work.

Thanks for the heads up on the 2015 difference. I need to specifically look into that and have a plan ahead of time.
 
#36 ·
You guys (and girls) are awesome. I'm going to track down a couple applicable youtube videos and begin planning this out for a lazy Saturday when I'm not rushed. Thankfully, even though this is Wisconsin, I have a heated garage. That will also be the perfect venue to bribe a knowledgeable friend of mine with pizza & beer to oversee my work.

Thanks for the heads up on the 2015 difference. I need to specifically look into that and have a plan ahead of time.

I'm not sure that you need the friend but make sure you have another car available for an emergency run to the parts/tool store. It would be good to remove all four wheels before starting and look for surprises like a leaky caliper that will have to be dealt with. And save the beer for celebration afterwards:wink2:.
 
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#25 ·
Just curious... watching the video in post 23, why does the electronic brake unit need to be removed? If the battery has been disconnected, what is the function of removing the unit? Does it prevent the piston from being pushed/rotated back in? Also, looks like this is the front brake... but not 100% certain of that.
 
#26 ·
Just curious... watching the video in post 23, why does the electronic brake unit need to be removed?...
Yeah, I quickly scanned the video and saw that - guess there was no commentary as to why he removed it? Anyway, it definitely was not necessary on my car (and pretty sure there's an additional part you need to replace if you remove it). The Subaru FSM just asks that you pull the battery negative and unplug the actuator.
 
#28 ·

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#33 ·
It takes me about 15 minutes per wheel to do brakes and that includes remove/replace wheel, inspect caliper suspension , bushings, etc. My 2009 Outback just requires a "C" clamp to push in the rotors but be careful where you place the clamp to avoid damage to bleed valve, etc.

I owned a Volvo that required the rotors be rotated to reset them but a large Channel Lock plier with tape wrapped around the jaws to prevent damage to the piston is all that was necessary. You can also get free use of a tool designed for resetting pistons from a local Autozone or similar store when you buy your pads.

I'm 66 and have been doing my own brakes, among other repairs/maintenance, for over 40 years and will continue to do so. Bleeding the brake lines is also not necessary unless air is introduced into the system and changing the fluid every 2 years is also a waste of money. If the fluid relatively clean and the pedal does not feel spongy, the fluid is fine. It's as wasteful as changing motor oil every 3500 miles. I use Amsoil 100% synthetic for almost 30 years and change it once a year.
 
#34 ·
I’d tend to disagree on the brake bleed. As I’m sure you know it’s hydroscopic and absorbs moisture. I don’t know that 24 months is the best frequency but with all the high tech ABS, etc, I’d err on the side of caution. (I do push my synthetic oil to about 7500-8500 mi or so (could probably go a bit farther according to Blackstone Labs). TEHO.
 
#35 ·
At the expense of raising the ire of many readers, I agree that brake fluid is hydroscopic, however, the brake system is a closed system and barring any damage or breach in the system air and/or water isn't an issue. Pedal feel is very telling and if you pay attention, you can tell when attention to the system is required. I keep my cars for 12-15 years and only needed to replace the fluid after I drove up Mt Washington in NH in a Mazda MPV. Driving down the Auto Road I burned the brakes, pads, rotors (that turned blue from the heat) and of course the fluid.

When my 2009 Outback was 2 years old I brought the car to the dealer for a free inspection. It passed but they told me the radiator fluid needed changing as it was two years old. I had to point out to the service writer that the car had the ultra extended life fluid; 11 years or 110,000 miles. I asked my volvo dealer if I should change the transmission fluid as the car had 189,000 miles. He said they never open the transmissions, regardless of miles, unless there is an obvious problem.

Many of the myths surrounding fluid change intervals go back many decades. Older technology in engines and fluids required it but the high tech formulations available today last much longer.

I have worked on cars for over 40 years, as a mechanic and teaching automotive technology. I have a lot of experience and expertise in this area.
 
#37 ·
Funny how people have been compelled to chime in on this thread just to trivialize the job for a guy with zero experience who's considering DIY work on critical safety components. Yes, it's not rocket science, and after seeing it done, I think I could manage it myself. But, I'm also quite confident it would have been a mistake to tackle this job solo, having absolutely no experience with brakes.

Oh, and for anyone new to the job, I'd also suggest taking pictures before disassembling things. And, if you're using it, keep in mind the OE front pad kit includes shims of two different colors to indicate what goes where. Pay attention to how the different shims are positioned on the old pads as you remove them.
 
#38 ·
Funny how people have been compelled to chime in on this thread just to trivialize the job for a guy with zero experience who's considering DIY work on critical safety components. Yes, it's not rocket science, and after seeing it done, I think I could manage it myself. But, I'm also quite confident it would have been a mistake to tackle this job solo, having absolutely no experience.

Oh, and for anyone new to the job, I'd also suggest taking pictures before disassembling things. And, if you're using it, keep in mind the OE front pad kit includes shims of two different colors to indicate what goes where. Pay attention to how the different shims are positioned on the old pads as you remove them.
I was very concerned about brake work when I was young, critical safety systems as you said, etc., - in the 70s, but, nowadays, there are multiple sources on-line that can help give folks that extra boost of confidence along with the knowledge required.

that said, the suggestion about getting a relative or friend to partner with is good advice. Use every resource you can, read, look at photos, watch videos, and ask questions.
 
#39 ·
I agree, the internet is an excellent resource, when used with care. But it can, at times, also be misleading (another reason to urge caution, IMO). Someone already posted a video where the guy removes the PB actuator, which shouldn't be done when just replacing pads. Most of the casual comments on this job have also failed to mention the importance of having a copy of the FSM, which contains critical information, such as:

Do not remove the parking brake actuator assembly except when there are system malfunctions (such as emergency release of parking brake or abnormal actuator) or when the caliper is replaced. When the parking brake actuator assembly is reused, always replace the O-ring with a new part contained in the caliper body assembly.

It's a great way to avoid costly mistakes, such as:
https://www.subaruoutback.org/forum...ms-maintenance/411873-2015-rear-brake-pad-replace-parking-break-retraction.html

I definitely think that having an intimate understanding of the brake system is a great advantage to anyone with the necessary skills and motivation. While I always prefer to figure things out on my own, and not impose on friends that might have better things to do with their time, in this case, the appeal was well worth it.
 
#41 ·
I was always scared of doing brakes until I was about 48 or 49 and had done so many other things VANOs variable timing gasket, window regulators, control arms and multiple bushings , so with Youtube and forums as my guide I did my first set. I’m now 55 and have done them on Honda, BMW, Acura and VW GTI, and won’t shy away when it’s time to do the OB. Perhaps have an experienced or at least knowledgeable friend around for your virgin set. A kit like this is very handy.

Image


And I do try to bleed my brakes ever 24 mo or so.

GL OP.
 
#42 ·
I've worked on cars since I was pretty little, helping my Dad and uncles back in the 60s. By 1970 I had my own cars to wrench, and I learned how brakes work quite young. I would absolutely caution anyone that has doubts about working on brakes, as it's a critical safety function on the car. If you are unsure about your skills, ask yourself a question: would you trust putting your family in the car and letting them drive it? If there's any doubt, pay someone else.